Watford Post Match 2-1 Loss

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

What i am finding so frustrating is that we concede too easily especially away from home. Yes our defence is overall very good but soft goals cost us when clearly we can't score either. In the PO season we'd win one nil even the worst we'd get is a point, this season we attack hopelessly and get caught at the other end. Its costing us. Id rather draw 0-0 or scrape 1-0 then give ourselves too much to do.

Although it could be argued if we were more clinical us scoring one or two early on helps kill the game early but we simply don't score enough.

If we don't score the first goal then we should be worried.

[Happy Fox]

Getting the first goal is crucial and in every league game this season it has led to us not loosing the game.

Hence when we concede first we loose the game whether that is mentality issue heads drop or we don't have the conviction to take our chances when presented?

[Guest Col city fan]

What i am finding so frustrating is that we concede too easily especially away from home. Yes our defence is overall very good but soft goals cost us when clearly we can't score either. In the PO season we'd win one nil even the worst we'd get is a point, this season we attack hopelessly and get caught at the other end. Its costing us. Id rather draw 0-0 or scrape 1-0 then give ourselves too much to do.

Although it could be argued if we were more clinical us scoring one or two early on helps kill the game early but we simply don't score enough.

If we don't score the first goal then we should be worried.

The defensive frailty away from home continues.... now Whitbread is being blamed as the problem.. thats Mills, Bamba, SSL, Moore and now Whitbread...

Does the defence need greater support away from home?

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

The defensive frailty away from home continues.... now Whitbread is being blamed as the problem.. thats Mills, Bamba, SSL, Moore and now Whitbread...

Does the defence need greater support away from home?

Whitebread was awful at time yesterday and hardly great vs Palace and Brighton so yes he's been the weak link in defence.

It needs something away from home, i don't know what but I for one am never confident in a clean sheet on the road. SSL is badly needed back, him and Morgan have worked so well in the games together this season.

You've got to go with Moore at CB on Tues but as said, Davies vs Moore is not going to be fun to watch.

[Guest Col city fan]

Whitebread was awful at time yesterday and hardly great vs Palace and Brighton so yes he's been the weak link in defence.

It needs something away from home, i don't know what but I for one am never confident in a clean sheet on the road. SSL is badly needed back, him and Morgan have worked so well in the games together this season.

You've got to go with Moore at CB on Tues but as said, Davies vs Moore is not going to be fun to watch.

I guess that's my point... There have been so many who have been allegedly 'weak links'... It has even applied to the full backs... Peltier being the best example.

I think the defence need more support from a physically stronger midfield. If this doesn't happen, individual players will continue to be targeted. Yesterday it appears we were completely overrun for the first 30 mins. There's the problem.

Law of averages dictates if you can't control a game, you will concede goals. Whoever is playing in defence.

Either this theory is true or people must concede that Pearson has signed a poor defender in Whitbread. I don't think he has. Whitbread has played at a higher level than this and Pearson's defensive signings have usually been good.

Look to the midfield and lack of physical presence in games we aren't controlling. For me that's the problem.

[Happy Fox]

Our away form is pits generally to get automatic promotion sides need to win at least 10 away games and draw some as well say about 5, along with a near perfect home form, we so far have two away wins under our belt we need a win on Tuesday really as much for confidence sake to be built again because 2 home games against F****t and Ipswich won't be easy for us unless we are on our A game which hasn't happened for the past 4 games.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

I guess that's my point... There have been so many who have been allegedly 'weak links'... It has even applied to the full backs... Peltier being the best example.

I think the defence need more support from a physically stronger midfield. If this doesn't happen, individual players will continue to be targeted. Yesterday it appears we were completely overrun for the first 30 mins. There's the problem.

Law of averages dictates if you can't control a game, you will concede goals. Whoever is playing in defence.

Either this theory is true or people must concede that Pearson has signed a poor defender in Whitbread. I don't think he has. Whitbread has played at a higher level than this and Pearson's defensive signings have usually been good.

Look to the midfield and lack of physical presence in games we aren't controlling. For me that's the problem.

You might well be right about the lack of midfield help. But again think back to the playoff season we had King and Wellens more often than not i midfield and wouldn't say they were more likely than what we've got now to help defend. Yet we were better in away games that season defensively.

I think it will come good once Whitebread improves to the level NP knows he can play at. But for now SSL is very much needed. Morgan though has been player of the season so far, just needs a decent partner which SSL has been i the few games he played.

[Guest ttfn]

As much as we've only lost two on the spin now and still sit fourth (which I'm sure everybody would have taken 7 weeks ago), there is no doubting the fact that we have regressed badly in the last 3-and-a-half games.

Before half-time in the Birmingham match, we were carving teams open at will, even in the games we were losing, squandering chance after chance. Now, the problem is less the finishing and more the chance creation. We're not the same fluid, exciting side that was going away to Charlton and Blackburn and giving it a bloody good go, losing unluckily. Yesterday we barely created a chance in defeat to a very average Watford side.

Taking off both Marshall and Knockaert (neither of whom had had a particularly good game) was ridiculous in light of our lack of creativity. Knockaert, in particular, was just starting to look like he might make something happen at any minute. Futacs coming on added insult to injury. Watching him ambling in to the Watford defenders as they comfortably dealt with a depressingly endless barrage of high balls made me wonder where it had all gone wrong for the entertainers of six weeks ago.

[lestajigs]

Perhaps you should read the match thread with the "the rots set in", "we've been found out", "Pearson fluked being top", "he's a shit manager", "we're shit", "midtable here we come", "x player

should never play for us again" brigade out in force.

Fair enough, I really don't know what goes through some people's heads!! I know the frustration kicks in after a loss, but half there comments? Ffs were 4th the league

[Guest Col city fan]

You might well be right about the lack of midfield help. But again think back to the playoff season we had King and Wellens more often than not i midfield and wouldn't say they were more likely than what we've got now to help defend. Yet we were better in away games that season defensively.

I think it will come good once Whitebread improves to the level NP knows he can play at. But for now SSL is very much needed. Morgan though has been player of the season so far, just needs a decent partner which SSL has been i the few games he played.

You are right about King and Wellens mate, but don't forget that Wellens was a couple of years younger and actually a good player at this level at that time. He brought more control to the midfield and to our passing game. Drinkwater is full of energy and he's only gonna improve. But he's nowhere near as good as Wellens was at passing and playing keep ball when neccessary. Not yet anyway.

Some people will bang on about Wellens being crap. In Pearsons first tenure at the club I thought he was excellent.

[Bettsj2]

The fans over reaction to the defeat isnt unexpected and looking for someone to point the finger at is always to be expected.

Our expectations were raised on account of us being top, however if the last 2 defeats were inbetween our unbeaten run, the majority in here would be extremely happy with the progress made.

This is the point that needs to be stressed most. Progress. Since NP left the first time, we have gone backwards as a club. Now it seems that we are on the path again to being a top 6 club with the chance of promotion. The squad is young and raw. With the right guidance and support, they really will flourish.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but comments like, 'James is shit', 'Whitbread can **** off' etc are not actual opinions, just reactionary to whatever result happens to come about.

After losing to Palace, quite a large number of fans lost their heads and wanted to discard the team that had got us to top spot, in favour of players who have previously got us nowhere near.

I dont know that if Neil Danns played yesterday instead of James we would have done better. Certainly there is mot much in the recent past of Danns' City career to suggest that but I can appreciate fans thoughts that a more experienced head could have been useful. But on the flip side, given the disruption in the team due to injuries and suspensions, I completely understand NP not wanting to change too much, especially as in my opinion, James did quite well when he came on against Palace.

In summary, i'm disappointed with the last two results, but on the whole am very happy with the season so far and dont see the need to make too many additions. If anything, a versatile defender and another striker wouldt hurt but nothing more than that. Our success appears to have a lot to do with having a tight knit squad. No point risking that by adding numerous loanees to appease a certain section of supporters.

BLUE ARMY!!!

[I blame Wellens]

Shocking all round yesterday:

1. Dreadful start some players seemed to be half asleep

2. James and Moore are simply not good enough

3. Whitbread had a shocker today just when I thought he was starting to find his feet.

4. Marshall overrated as usual

5. Knocky stuck out on the wing again. Not behind Nugent.

6. No point putting crosses in because attacking the ball is something alien to city players.

7. The substitutions, well where do I start. All ineffectual as usual. Futacs has about as much presence in the air as the Big O used to. Dyer lived up to his name yet again and Waghorn huffed and puffed as usual.

8. Forgot how scary the toilets were at Watford.

9. Parking a nightmare

10. NO BEER sold at the ground!

On the positive:

1 Big Wes tried his best as always

2. Had a bit of fun singing the new chant at the back of the stand

3. Chicken Balti Pie was probably one of the nicest I've tasted in years.

4. Didn't take too long getting home.

[Babylon]

The fans over reaction to the defeat isnt unexpected and looking for someone to point the finger at is always to be expected.

Our expectations were raised on account of us being top, however if the last 2 defeats were inbetween our unbeaten run, the majority in here would be extremely happy with the progress made.

This is the point that needs to be stressed most. Progress. Since NP left the first time, we have gone backwards as a club. Now it seems that we are on the path again to being a top 6 club with the chance of promotion. The squad is young and raw. With the right guidance and support, they really will flourish.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but comments like, 'James is shit', 'Whitbread can **** off' etc are not actual opinions, just reactionary to whatever result happens to come about.

After losing to Palace, quite a large number of fans lost their heads and wanted to discard the team that had got us to top spot, in favour of players who have previously got us nowhere near.

I dont know that if Neil Danns played yesterday instead of James we would have done better. Certainly there is mot much in the recent past of Danns' City career to suggest that but I can appreciate fans thoughts that a more experienced head could have been useful. But on the flip side, given the disruption in the team due to injuries and suspensions, I completely understand NP not wanting to change too much, especially as in my opinion, James did quite well when he came on against Palace.

In summary, i'm disappointed with the last two results, but on the whole am very happy with the season so far and dont see the need to make too many additions. If anything, a versatile defender and another striker wouldt hurt but nothing more than that. Our success appears to have a lot to do with having a tight knit squad. No point risking that by adding numerous loanees to appease a certain section of supporters.

BLUE ARMY!!!

My faith in humanity is restored... even if just a tiny bit.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

You are right about King and Wellens mate, but don't forget that Wellens was a couple of years younger and actually a good player at this level at that time. He brought more control to the midfield and to our passing game. Drinkwater is full of energy and he's only gonna improve. But he's nowhere near as good as Wellens was at passing and playing keep ball when neccessary. Not yet anyway.

Some people will bang on about Wellens being crap. In Pearsons first tenure at the club I thought he was excellent.

You're right. But what i meant was that Wellens was hardly a Vieira type player helping the defence out but they all worked hard as a midfield two or four which defensively this season isn't happening. Wellens was excellent that season though yes.

Also what hasn't helped is that DD seems to have lost a bit of form which goes along with our slump in recent games.

People might laugh but i wouldn't mind seeing Danns against Bolton. Seems to be the best midfielder we have in terms of quickly tracking back.

[Guest Col city fan]

You're right. But what i meant was that Wellens was hardly a Vieira type player helping the defence out but they all worked hard as a midfield two or four which defensively this season isn't happening. Wellens was excellent that season though yes.

Also what hasn't helped is that DD seems to have lost a bit of form which goes along with our slump in recent games.

People might laugh but i wouldn't mind seeing Danns against Bolton. Seems to be the best midfielder we have in terms of quickly tracking back.

IMO he should have played yesterday for exactly the reason you say.

[I blame Wellens]

Who gives a toss about Wellens 3 seasons ago, move on!

[Thracian]

Panic, it's the only solution. Forget how well we had been playing, forget being top two games ago. We must replace the manager and the players immediately!!

Except that we're not playing the same way at all. Pearson has reverted to type. He clearly set out to contain the game early on with a view to introducing some pace and more attacking potency later and, predictably, it backfired.

Earlier in the season we got at the opposition from the start, pressured them into making mistakes and passed them to pieces. No longer. We conceded the initiative from the off by playing Nugent as a lone striker meaning there was no collective lpressure on the home defence allowing them to swamp even our virtual five man midfield.

Coupled with the fact that our team has lost its previously complimentary cohesion and we couldn't pass wind let alone one of Watford's half-pumped footballs.

A final difference is that, while we didn't have a notable weakness for the first two months of the season we had a team of paper fox cubs out there yesterday with at least five players being little more than passengers - marginally worse than last week.

Who were they:

Moore - he looked like a boy playing against men most of the time.

Whitbread - one of the worst central defenders I've seen in City colours...the bloke just makes one bad decision after another, his distribution was again appalling, yet again he almost gave a goal away and finally he got sent off for committing the cardinal sin of tackling on his arse and missing.

James - no goal threat himself from midfield - just didn't track their midfielders in defensive situations allowing them to have countless shots from just outside the box.

Drinkwater - another who poses no goal threat, seems to have had an ability transplant that no-one's aware of? From being part of an orchestrating midfield with King, he was simply overwhelmed just as last week, leaving poor Kingy as our only midfielder continuing to do the simple things quickly and accurately.

Futacs - what the hell is he for and who on Earth thought it a clever idea to sign him? He's a giant who acts like a fairy. Like Beckford, he competed for nothing in the air and simply failed to achieve the central requirement of holding the ball and feeding it to players running off him. Yes he had one half decent shot but the rest of the time he was a liability.

Tactically we were a disaster yesterday and not for the first time recently. We had guys like Dyer, Waghorn and Schlupp on the bench - two of them reliable passers in defensive situations and ll of them quick to harass the opposition. Instead we elected to start with no pace or penetration and, right from the start, I asked how on earth we'd ever press and get behind their defence. And we didn't.

Knockaert remained the enigma he's always been. Brilliant at times but inconsistent and difficult to fit in with. No I wouldn't have taken him off. Second half particularly he looked one of the few players who might make something happen and he was not so blinkered as the previous week.

But I think it no coincidence that he and Whitbread have been starters since our team started going downhill because neither of them compliment a pass-and-move philosophy nor does Knockaert really close people down with any effect. .

And as we had so few others to do that it's little wonder we were soon playing catch-up.

[NewburyFox]

Except that we're not playing the same way at all. Pearson has reverted to type. He clearly set out to contain the game early on with a view to introducing some pace and more attacking potency later and, predictably, it backfired.

Earlier in the season we got at the opposition from the start, pressured them into making mistakes and passed them to pieces. No longer. We conceded the initiative from the off by playing Nugent as a lone striker meaning there was no collective lpressure on the home defence allowing them to swamp even our virtual five man midfield.

Coupled with the fact that our team has lost its previously complimentary cohesion and we couldn't pass wind let alone one of Watford's half-pumped footballs.

A final difference is that, while we didn't have a notable weakness for the first two months of the season we had a team of paper fox cubs out there yesterday with at least five players being little more than passengers - marginally worse than last week.

Who were they:

Moore - he looked like a boy playing against men most of the time.

Whitbread - one of the worst central defenders I've seen in City colours...the bloke just makes one bad decision after another, his distribution was again appalling, yet again he almost gave a goal away and finally he got sent off for committing the cardinal sin of tackling on his arse and missing.

James - no goal threat himself from midfield - just didn't track their midfielders in defensive situations allowing them to have countless shots from just outside the box.

Drinkwater - another who poses no goal threat, seems to have had an ability transplant that no-one's aware of? From being part of an orchestrating midfield with King, he was simply overwhelmed just as last week, leaving poor Kingy as our only midfielder continuing to do the simple things quickly and accurately.

Futacs - what the hell is he for and who on Earth thought it a clever idea to sign him? He's a giant who acts like a fairy. Like Beckford, he competed for nothing in the air and simply failed to achieve the central requirement of holding the ball and feeding it to players running off him. Yes he had one half decent shot but the rest of the time he was a liability.

Tactically we were a disaster yesterday and not for the first time recently. We had guys like Dyer, Waghorn and Schlupp on the bench - two of them reliable passers in defensive situations and ll of them quick to harass the opposition. Instead we elected to start with no pace or penetration and, right from the start, I asked how on earth we'd ever press and get behind their defence. And we didn't.

Knockaert remained the enigma he's always been. Brilliant at times but inconsistent and difficult to fit in with. No I wouldn't have taken him off. Second half particularly he looked one of the few players who might make something happen and he was not so blinkered as the previous week.

But I think it no coincidence that he and Whitbread have been starters since our team started going downhill because neither of them compliment a pass-and-move philosophy nor does Knockaert really close people down with any effect. .

And as we had so few others to do that it's little wonder we were soon playing catch-up.

Agree with most of what you say, but we won the first 5 games that Knockaert started.

[dedlock]

It was disappointing yesterday.We lost to a moderate side who took their chances. We were not in the game for first half hour, yet Watford's first goal came on a break away. Morgan was passed but neither Moore

nor Whitbread could close down quickly to prevent Kaspar being exposed one on one.

Firstly,we have not had a settled defence most of the season, for a few games with SSL & Morgan together we were reasonably secure at the back. More importantly there is a lack of pace in central defence.

Before Whitbread got the 2nd yellow the impetus was with us and an equaliser looked likely.

I thought Waghorn did well when he came on and showed the folly of leaving Nuge. alone up front in the first half.

Of the midfielders, King put in a shift but the others were largely anonymous, withdrawing Drinkwater at half-time was inevitable.

We do need more steel in midfield but we also need pace at the back.

[Dr The Singh]

Postive for me is that the manager got the analysis right, we didn;t do enough and our squad is thin.

It shows the manager is honest, let's hope he has the skill to turn things around.

My only concern is that we still do not have a prolific goal scorer and other then King, the midfield nor defence look like getting us goals. Set pieces and corners haven't added to our goal tally either.

I would be surprised the manager does not know this.

Were still 4th, our away performance is a concern, Bolton will be a key test.

[marbelladave]

You are right about King and Wellens mate, but don't forget that Wellens was a couple of years younger and actually a good player at this level at that time. He brought more control to the midfield and to our passing game. Drinkwater is full of energy and he's only gonna improve. But he's nowhere near as good as Wellens was at passing and playing keep ball when neccessary. Not yet anyway.

Some people will bang on about Wellens being crap. In Pearsons first tenure at the club I thought he was excellent.

Heresy.........

Burn the witch, burn the witch........

[Guest Col city fan]

Heresy.........

Burn the witch, burn the witch........

[marbelladave]

Just got in from a tough days painting, didn't get to the game of course, and am not at all up to speed on what happened and peoples reaction to it......

Thracians points about us 'reverting to type' is worrying though, I pointed out that in recent games the incisive edge to our passing seems to have disappeared and we seem to have reverted to chipped and floated crosses, this sadly is fairly typical of us under NFP.

For a while we had been playing some decent modern football, not the finished article by any means but what is disappointing is that a couple of poorish performances and we go all defensive and resort to the hoof........

On the plus side, our new apartment is on the Grand Union Canal, literally just 20ft in front of (one of) the main entrance and you are in the water, or on a boat.

This is great as I can now get directly from my front door to the KP by boat........

[Guest Col city fan]

Just got in from a tough days painting, didn't get to the game of course, and am not at all up to speed on what happened and peoples reaction to it......

Thracians points about us 'reverting to type' is worrying though, I pointed out that in recent games the incisive edge to our passing seems to have disappeared and we seem to have reverted to chipped and floated crosses, this sadly is fairly typical of us under NFP.

For a while we had been playing some decent modern football, not the finished article by any means but what is disappointing is that a couple of poorish performances and we go all defensive and resort to the hoof........

On the plus side, our new apartment is on the Grand Union Canal, literally just 20ft in front of (one of) the main entrance and you are in the water, or on a boat.

This is great as I can now get directly from my front door to the KP by boat........

This is where you and I must once again disagree Dave mi ol sparring partner.

Yesterday's formation was what you'd been after for weeks ( or one possibility as you said). I too thought it looked rather nice.

However, it left us too frail defensively. Especially away from home.

To be able to do something with the ball you have to have the ball. Our attacking middle men couldn't do much with it because they didn't have it.

Now where does that leave us? Well the formation in principle remains a good option. However, where you and I seem to disagree is that you think this will come good with the right coaching?

Of course, that will improve us. Our players are coached week in week out.

My opinion is that Pearson reverted to type because he discovered that defensively, the middle just wasn't good enough to win the ball and to give it to our creative players.

City under MON excelled because of Lennon. He was the engine and the ball winner. He could give it to Parker and Muzzy and then off we went again.

We have no one in the side who can tackle hard, can mop up, stick bang to position and then simply get us going again. The only one like this is Drinkwater who is still young and not as consistent as he will be in the future.

IMO we can only play your formation with midfielders who are better at the defensive side if the game. Pearson saw we were over-run yesterday so went back to his tried and tested.

[fleckneymike]

Yesterday demonstrated the value of King to the midfield. Move him out and forward and all of a sudden we can't keep the ball and we get over run.

If you're going to play 451/4231 then for me Knockaert HAS to be played behind the front man, he can have a far greater impact from that position and IF he drifts in and out of the match it doesn't leave us exposed as there are still 4 midfielders to cover. Play him out wide and the full back behind him is under extra pressure to both feed him the ball and cover for him. Sadly Liam Moore was awfully exposed when given this responsibility, it's no coincidence that when we switched Knockaert to play in front of Konchesky we looked a lot more threatening.