Leeds (A) Post Match

[Guest Col city fan]

Sorry Col, don't want your feelings hurt.

Ok, I'll give some constructive criticism. We don't need a powerful midfielder. We've played 19 games and in about 3 of them we've been bullied in that area. In most games our midfield, as a unit, has dominated their area and we've created significant chances.

Our problem is not capitalising on the opportunities we create and the possession we hold. Our defence is very solid and we have a fine goalkeeper. We are not strong enough attacking set-pieces. We might be bullied or outfought in midfield once or twice but it's not a big problem.

Another striker and another winger are what we need in January to push on. We lost tonight, it's a shame but there is no need to be despondent.

That's better...

That weren't too hard was it?

[Happy Fox]

As long as we can rectify some of these shortcomings perhaps physicality when we play sides renowned for their hoofball and dirty tactics then we will be fine, I think the issue is more to do with being clinical Waghorn and Vardy aren't going to score the goals at this level to help get us promoted we need another striker of quality with Nugent to make us automatic promotion contenders because this season is the most open it ever has been.

[kingfox]

Sorry Col, don't want your feelings hurt.

Ok, I'll give some constructive criticism. We don't need a powerful midfielder. We've played 19 games and in about 3 of them we've been bullied in that area. In most games our midfield, as a unit, has dominated their area and we've created significant chances.

From those 19 games, the games we have won we have dominated in, Drinkwater and King control the midfield and we end up playing well. However when the midfield doesn't control, meaning Drinky and King struggle, which results in losses. All our losses apart from Blackburn, we have been overpowered by the opposition especially in the midfield, that's why myself and Col have mentioned that powerful midfielder so many times.

I've seen them a couple of times this season and they've really just been dirty and physical throughout the team. They've got a couple of good attacking threats but even they are quite strong, it's no surprise to hear Youngy saying we were bullied.

Our centre backs are strong but lets face it; Vardy, Drinky, King and Dyer are pretty weak, and Marshall and Knockaert aren't exactly powerhouses. In certain games we will get outfought if the opposition organise themselves well enough, it's not happened a lot, I think we've been good enough to play around a lot of teams but it's happened a couple of times.

I agree it's not a major issue but it's still a weakness.

Agreed +1

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I've seen them a couple of times this season and they've really just been dirty and physical throughout the team. They've got a couple of good attacking threats but even they are quite strong, it's no surprise to hear Youngy saying we were bullied.

Our centre backs are strong but lets face it; Vardy, Drinky, King and Dyer are pretty weak, and Marshall and Knockaert aren't exactly powerhouses. In certain games we will get outfought if the opposition organise themselves well enough, it's not happened a lot, I think we've been good enough to play around a lot of teams but it's happened a couple of times.

I agree it's not a major issue but it's still a weakness.

As have I - and they really aren't physical (especially sans Austin), dirty and physical are two separate things. As I said they've got one or two absolute spoilers in the likes of Brown, Becchio and Diouf - other than that they aren't any 'bigger' than we are.

The way people rattle on about Leeds being this monstrously physical side you'd have thought their starting eleven tonight was made up of Goliath-esque giants.

[LJS]

We're picking up too many defeats. Six out of nineteen is a big number if we're serious about automatic promotion. We look like a play off team and no more at the minute, which is fine with me. I'd certainly have taken it at the beginning of the season. It's Pearson's first full season and sometimes it just take longer than that. If we manage to nick a top two place, brilliant. If not, I'm quite happy with building slowly like Stoke and West Brom had to.

[Corky]

We're picking up too many defeats. Six out of nineteen is a big number if we're serious about automatic promotion. We look like a play off team and no more at the minute, which is fine with me. I'd certainly have taken it at the beginning of the season. It's Pearson's first full season and sometimes it just take longer than that. If we manage to nick a top two place, brilliant. If not, I'm quite happy with building slowly like Stoke and West Brom had to.

You sound remarkable like Lee Cov Fox from Talking Balls, whose post I've just read

[Kitchandro]

As have I - and they really aren't physical (especially sans Austin), dirty and physical are two separate things. As I said they've got one or two absolute spoilers in the likes of Brown, Becchio and Diouf - other than that they aren't any 'bigger' than we are.

The way people rattle on about Leeds being this monstrously physical side you'd have thought their starting eleven tonight was made up of Goliath-esque giants.

Well if they're not surely it's more down to us being so weak then? I don't believe they're a better footballing team than us.

There's also a difference between being big and being strong, King's a tall lad but he's often muscled out of games. Dirty and strong are different things but I'm saying they've been both.

[crisp packet]

In car on way back , played into there hands after early goal. They just spoilt the game really , ref blowing his whistle alot!!

Didn't really get our passing game going.

Ball was in the air tooooo much and our front two of vardy and waghorn didn't hold it up .

We didn't really get going other than a ten minute spell in the second half.

Another bad away day ....

[deep blue]

As long as we can rectify some of these shortcomings perhaps physicality when we play sides renowned for their hoofball and dirty tactics then we will be fine, I think the issue is more to do with being clinical Waghorn and Vardy aren't going to score the goals at this level to help get us promoted we need another striker of quality with Nugent to make us automatic promotion contenders because this season is the most open it ever has been.

I can't help thinking that the games where we've been "bullied" are also the games where we haven't started very well and the oppo has imposed their game over us. Maybe if we'd started those games at our usual high tempo we would have seized the initiative from the start and their physicality wouldn't have been so much of an issue. For example, when we start at a lower tempo we tend to be slower to the second balls, get starved of the ball, can't play our normal passing game, and the opposition take control.

What disappoints me is how we don't seem to be fired up for some games at the start, and also that our management sometimes don't appear to anticipate and prepare team tactics to counter the likely tactics of the opposition. This latter point is particularly pertinent when facing managers like Warnock, who's methods have been similar for years and are well-known.

[Kitchandro]

We're picking up too many defeats. Six out of nineteen is a big number if we're serious about automatic promotion. We look like a play off team and no more at the minute, which is fine with me. I'd certainly have taken it at the beginning of the season. It's Pearson's first full season and sometimes it just take longer than that. If we manage to nick a top two place, brilliant. If not, I'm quite happy with building slowly like Stoke and West Brom had to.

Automatic promotion is still there for the taking, Im not settling for the play-offs yet. I don't believe we can't be good enough for the top 2, In fact I'd suggest we're better than Cardiff and Middlesbrough, and no worse than Palace on a good day. I think we need a striker but I'd be disappointed if our automatic promotion challenge died with a whimper. We're a better team than we were tonight and with some tweaking we'll be right up there.

We've waited a while for a team as promising as this and I'm not giving up on our potential this early.

[Corky]

I can't help thinking that the games where we've been "bullied" are also the games where we haven't started very well and the oppo has imposed their game over us. Maybe if we'd started those games at our usual high tempo we would have seized the initiative from the start and their physicality wouldn't have been so much of an issue. For example, when we start at a lower tempo we tend to be slower to the second balls, get starved of the ball, can't play our normal passing game, and the opposition take control.

What disappoints me is how we don't seem to be fired up for some games at the start, and also that our management sometimes don't appear to anticipate and prepare team tactics to counter the likely tactics of the opposition. This latter point is particularly pertinent when facing managers like Warnock, who's methods have been similar for years and are well-known.

Very good point.

What has been noticeble this season is the amount of games we've been in control of from the start. As you say, when we don't start well we tend to struggle.

[Guest Col city fan]

As usual the thread seems to descend into the farce of those suggesting where the team could improve and then immediately being considered as 'disloyal' by the usual suspects.

The point that I made, right at the start of the season, is that Andy King sometimes goes missing in games where the opposition seem to outmuscle him. I've seen him do this now over a number of seasons. In those games, again I've consistently suggested that we play a midfielder who is bigger and stronger than King is, to try to dominate the middle of the pitch more, especially away from home where the opposition start quickly and come onto us quickly.

Kingy is exceptional in certain games. He's been a revelation this season. But this doesn't mean we can't shake it up when we need to.

I agree fully with those stating we don't take enough chances, and have stated on more than occasion that we need a more clinical finisher. But we also need a physically stronger midfield in some games IMO.

[deep blue]

We're picking up too many defeats. Six out of nineteen is a big number if we're serious about automatic promotion. We look like a play off team and no more at the minute, which is fine with me. I'd certainly have taken it at the beginning of the season. It's Pearson's first full season and sometimes it just take longer than that. If we manage to nick a top two place, brilliant. If not, I'm quite happy with building slowly like Stoke and West Brom had to.

I would be too disappointed at that, but would the owners? That's my only worry.

[muzzy1981]

You can't knock Pearson..we are 4th in the league

However, I want to make 4 points:

- King isn't effective in certain games... we need a physically stronger midfield for some games.

- We need another goal-scoring striker - not an all-effort striker, but one scoring goals.

- We don't start away games well.

- If we don't sort these issues out, we wont get top two

IMO.

[Kitchandro]

I can't help thinking that the games where we've been "bullied" are also the games where we haven't started very well and the oppo has imposed their game over us. Maybe if we'd started those games at our usual high tempo we would have seized the initiative from the start and their physicality wouldn't have been so much of an issue. For example, when we start at a lower tempo we tend to be slower to the second balls, get starved of the ball, can't play our normal passing game, and the opposition take control.

What disappoints me is how we don't seem to be fired up for some games at the start, and also that our management sometimes don't appear to anticipate and prepare team tactics to counter the likely tactics of the opposition. This latter point is particularly pertinent when facing managers like Warnock, who's methods have been similar for years and are well-known.

Spot on there for me.

[muzzy1981]

Sorry agree with all the above, hopefully Nige is aware of this

[Dan]

Not good enough. Depressing going back to RL.

[LJS]

You sound remarkable like Lee Cov Fox from Talking Balls, whose post I've just read

Can't think why that might be.

[Mark_w]

I think we need to buy more and more players until we end up with last season's system of having a million unhappy players fighting for one position. We'll probably be able to keep them happy by paying them all a ridiculous amount of money though.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Well if they're not surely it's more down to us being so weak then? I don't believe they're a better footballing team than us.

There's also a difference between being big and being strong, King's a tall lad but he's often muscled out of games. Dirty and strong are different things but I'm saying they've been both.

Reckon we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter to be honest as I think we both have different definitions of the terms being bandied about.

For me - Leeds are a spoiling side. The football they play isn't pretty but it's organised well enough. They're dirty, nasty.

The term 'physical' to me is more evocative of West 'Aaaaam or Stoke, big centre forwards and plenty of hail Mary hoofs up the pitch. Neither are attractive but there are differences, in my gin-addled mind.

[Kitchandro]

As usual the thread seems to descend into the farce of those suggesting where the team could improve and then immediately being considered as 'disloyal' by the usual suspects.

The point that I made, right at the start of the season, is that Andy King sometimes goes missing in games where the opposition seem to outmuscle him. I've seen him do this now over a number of seasons. In those games, again I've consistently suggested that we play a midfielder who is bigger and stronger than King is, to try to dominate the middle of the pitch more, especially away from home where the opposition start quickly and come onto us quickly.

Kingy is exceptional in certain games. He's been a revelation this season. But this doesn't mean we can't shake it up when we need to.

I agree fully with those stating we don't take enough chances, and have stated on more than occasion that we need a more clinical finisher. But we also need a physically stronger midfield in some games IMO.

Would one of those games been Sheffield Wednesday though?

I can see the idea of bringing such a player on but if you're already behind like tonight you risk losing an attacking threat if you take King off.

[Guest Col city fan]

Would one of those games been Sheffield Wednesday though?

I can see the idea of bringing such a player on but if you're already behind like tonight you risk losing an attacking threat if you take King off.

Sheff weds are rubbish mate. It's not a good example to use.

When we go away to Millwall, for example, I'd not start King. I'd see how the game was going then introduce him if we needed to.

The problem I think we have is I'm not a big fan of James and we don't have a tough midfield. So if we didn't start King, who would we start?

All this talk about Millwall being a good side is rubbish imo. They aren't.. What they are is well organised, physically tough and nasty and have a couple of good strikers.

I don't want to see us completely over run in the middle like we were there last season.

Derby.... I ain't bothered about. I'd be surprised if we don't win convincingly.

[marbelladave]

Still unable to get to games sadly, so listened to Stringer/Young......

So naturally I really do not have the faintest idea of how we played, what went wrong etc. Listening to Young commenting on our tactics provides a little light relief but it is no substitute for actually being told what is going on.

In general our style of play depends a lot on Drinkwater and King and sometimes we seem to ask far too much of them, looks very much like Leeds got in their faces and closed them down and no-one was available to help. Seen that happen a few times this season and maybe that is what happened tonight.

When we play well and make our 4-4-2 really work for us we see our widemen coming inside to offer options and in recent games, Waghorn dropping off to link up play, when that doesn't happen Drinkwater and King get isolated and our passing game never gets started.

Maybe someone who was at the game would take the time to put us armchair fans straight........

[Dan]

Sheff weds are rubbish mate. It's not a good example to use.

When we go away to Millwall, for example, I'd not start King. I'd see how the game was going then introduce him if we needed to.

The problem I think we have is I'm not a big fan of James and we don't have a tough midfield. So if we didn't start King, who would we start?

All this talk about Millwall being a good side is rubbish imo. They aren't.. What they are is well organised, physically tough and nasty and have a couple of good strikers.

I don't want to see us completely over run in the middle like we were there last season.

Derby.... I ain't bothered about. I'd be surprised if we don't win convincingly.

What you've described Millwall as would definitely define a good side in this league. I quite rate Jackett and other than their fans I quite like what Millwall are doing - stuck with a manager ages, worked on something for ages and it's finally coming into place.

Very similar side to Leeds though, just cannot see us getting anything there, sadly.

[Legend_in_blue]

We don't have the personnel in the squad to play two in the middle who can dominate in games against non-footballing sides. Either we look to bring someone in who can hold the midfield better with one of Drinkwater or King for such games, or we play five in midfield.

It was all too obvious listening in on the radio as to what happened. Been there, seen it at away games before. And home games to some extent although this season has seen an improvement in that respect. Mostly because we've made an impression from the start.

It's a problem we have yet to solve. I'm more worried about this though than I am or was at our ability to break down tinpot who put 11 behind the ball. So far this season our football has easily outdone these sides.