Captain... Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Is it that much of a head ****? Look into the night sky. There are billions of galaxies, with trillions of stars and planets. You you accept what's out there and it's not a big leap to believing we are an insignificant spec in the grand scheme of things. We're an insignificant spec in terms of life on earth, let alone the entirety of space. A lot of stuff can happen in 13.77 billion years, chance has had a large amount of time to play itself out. Because the amount of coincidences and unlikely occurrences that are needed to have happened from the big bang onwards, to the point of the creation of this planet, and then every geological and meteorological twist and turn this planet has taken and from lightening striking the primordial ooze to provide the spark, and then the meteor that struck the earth to wipe out the dinosaurs, the shifting of continental plates and eruptions of super volcanoes and massive earthquakes. That is before we even get on to the winding twisting path of our evolution from single celled organisms to what we have now become over millions and millions of year of evolution.
Dr The Singh Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Intelligent design? A scam, devised to disrupt evolution so that creationism can be snuck into the classroom - it's proponents admitted this in a leaked email 15 years ago, I don't know why anyone takes it seriously - it is little more than psuedo-science. It has the same footing as homoeopathy. Not quite, many religions have spoke about the 'natural' occurances or evolution and 'mother nature being a force of a wider conscience? There are other religions other the abhrahamic ones, that totally are independant in thought, and totally non creationism!!
Zingari Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 I have no problem accepting we are here by chance. Look at all the creatures that are around doing unexpected things. Sea creatures that squirt acid, amonia , ink electricity etc. Land animals that have developed abilities and protection that seem to be taken from science fiction. Plants that can shoot sperm at 100 mph plus. So why is it hard to believe that a few molucles randomly merged to form life then adapted as the earth evolved from a molten mass. I think that is more wonderful a thought than a higher being waving a hansd saying let there be light after he created the earth. An intellegent being would not work in the dark. Quite so , but all you are doing in using the same logic of religion in reverse . Where they used to see the hand of god in everything to prove the hand of god in everything else , science by the same logic , tells us that order out of randomness is evident in something and can be proved by order out of randomness somewhere else. Evolutionary theory is very beguiling , as was (and maybe still is) creationism because it attempts to put a meaning or an explanation for us to cling on to. We, in out hubris, hate to feel we just don't know and will always try to make patterns fit into some sort of order . Ape ancestors to human may be sort of acceptable and imaginable , but you have to remember that would only be a very tiny step. Almost neglible. Primordial soup into human beings and all the life forms is a lot of massive evolutionary steps . Try picturing that even incrementally , and if you really grasp the enormity of it then it's absolutely mind blowing. There really is a wonder in life that we'll never fully understand, and I'll continue to believe in my theory of " no fooker really knows
Babylon Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Because the amount of coincidences and unlikely occurrences that are needed to have happened from the big bang onwards, to the point of the creation of this planet, and then every geological and meteorological twist and turn this planet has taken and from lightening striking the primordial ooze to provide the spark, and then the meteor that struck the earth to wipe out the dinosaurs, the shifting of continental plates and eruptions of super volcanoes and massive earthquakes. That is before we even get on to the winding twisting path of our evolution from single celled organisms to what we have now become over millions and millions of year of evolution. Unlikely things and coincidences happen all the time that shape people's lives. it doesn't mean they were designed to happen that way. 17 years ago at school a leaflet fell out of a book for a computer course. The course shaped my career and my relationships from then, without it I most certainly wouldn't be where I am now or with who I am. A lot of things can happen in 13.77 billion years.
Captain... Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Quite so , but all you are doing in using the same logic of religion in reverse . Where they used to see the hand of god in everything to prove the hand of god in everything else , science by the same logic , tells us that order out of randomness is evident in something and can be proved by order out of randomness somewhere else. Evolutionary theory is very beguiling , as was (and maybe still is) creationism because it attempts to put a meaning or an explanation for us to cling on to. We, in out hubris, hate to feel we just don't know and will always try to make patterns fit into some sort of order . Ape ancestors to human may be sort of acceptable and imaginable , but you have to remember that would only be a very tiny step. Almost neglible. Primordial soup into human beings and all the life forms is a lot of massive evolutionary steps . Try picturing that even incrementally , and if you really grasp the enormity of it then it's absolutely mind blowing. There really is a wonder in life that we'll never fully understand, and I'll continue to believe in my theory of " no fooker really knows Well getting on to what actually gives us life is another massive headfvck, why do a collection of elements arranged in this way result in life and conciousness and death. Does science have an explanation for this? Unlikely things and coincidences happen all the time that shape people's lives. it doesn't mean they were designed to happen that way. 17 years ago at school a leaflet fell out of a book for a computer course. The course shaped my career and my relationships from then, without it I most certainly wouldn't be where I am now or with who I am. A lot of things can happen in 13.77 billion years. Doesn't make it any less of a headfvck.
sphericalfox Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Nice to see a racist thread lose it's path and end up elseplace
MPH Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Is it that much of a head ****? Look into the night sky. There are billions of galaxies, with trillions of stars and planets. You you accept what's out there and it's not a big leap to believing we are an insignificant spec in the grand scheme of things. We're an insignificant spec in terms of life on earth, let alone the entirety of space. A lot of stuff can happen in 13.77 billion years, chance has had a large amount of time to play itself out. But where did all these planets and galaxys come from? what was the origin of their making? I have heard people say non-solid matter and gasses is the explanation.... so where did they come from? what was their origin?
Babylon Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 But where did all these planets and galaxys come from? what was the origin of their making? I have heard people say non-solid matter and gasses is the explanation.... so where did they come from? what was their origin? 42
The Doctor Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Not quite, many religions have spoke about the 'natural' occurances or evolution and 'mother nature being a force of a wider conscience? There are other religions other the abhrahamic ones, that totally are independant in thought, and totally non creationism!! Oh no, very much so - Intelligent design is a trojan horse for creationism, nothing more. However if you want to go down that way, you're suggesting something is guiding evolution - which is not exactly true. Selection may guide evolution, but there is no external influence on it, and certainly no intelligence guiding it.
Vacamion Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 All I can say is, WOW, you've surprised me Vacman. Very easily led aren't you. I can't believe that you follow that guys train of thought on the subjects of religion and terrorism etc. [...] I thought, from previous posts, that you had your head screwed on more than that. I'm very disappointed. Sorry to disappoint you El Empty. I, on the other hand, have always considered many of your posts as deranged whacko fringe rantings that fascinate me and yet make me uncomfortable just like David Icke when he was ranting that time on Wogan about lizards. The posts you made about evolution have not disabused me of my opinion of your posts. Don't go changing Mr E E, I'll still read what you post with interest. I just reserve the right to disagree and to .
leicsmac Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 But where did all these planets and galaxys come from? what was the origin of their making? I have heard people say non-solid matter and gasses is the explanation.... so where did they come from? what was their origin? Possibly remnants of another Universe that had contracted into an point and caused a Big Bang. Possibly an offshoot from a much bigger Universe that we cannot sense. Possibly the ejaculate of *insert divine entity here*. Theories about this are a dime to the dozen and it's likely every single one of them is wrong. And, in all honesty...isn't the question itself irrelevant? In order to consider how the Universe came into being, we would have to consider what was there BEFORE it. Which is incomprehensible in itself given the idea of time (a human construct) only goes as far back as the Big Bang itself. So even the idea of "before" the Big Bang is absurd. There was no "before" - not that would be understandable to us, anyway. I mean, we can trace the origin of the Universe back to roughly 10^-41 seconds after the Big Bang (using particle accelerators to mimic the effect), and with the advance of technology we may be able to get even closer...but we'll never get beyond it.
The Doctor Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 But where did all these planets and galaxys come from? what was the origin of their making? I have heard people say non-solid matter and gasses is the explanation.... so where did they come from? what was their origin? *cracks knuckles* From the big bang can only the very light elements (hydrogen, helium and lithium) - nothing bigger. However when these gases are drawn too close together, gravitational collapse happens and a dense ball of gas is formed, resulting in stars being formed. The fusion process in the centre of the stars created all the heavier elements (and the heavier the element, the bigger the star it originally came from), and should the star have been big enough, upon stellar death it explodes in a supernova, flinging the elements formed in it's core across the universe. Now then, other stars will exert their own bending of space-time for their gravitational effect - these particles from the centres of dying stars can congregate and be drawn into orbit around the star (or even a particularly large planet - as the rings of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune show). Now they also exert a small bit of gravity, and combined with collisions with each other can form bigger and bigger clumps of matter, which then pull in other clumps of matter and over many years will eventually form planets. basically - everything in the universe exists because stars died.
Vacamion Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 For people interested in where mattter came from, the beginning of the universe etc, I would thoroughly recommend this book: Mr Gribbin is very good at explaining very complex stuff in a way that even I could understand.
Zingari Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 *cracks knuckles* From the big bang can only the very light elements (hydrogen, helium and lithium) - nothing bigger. However when these gases are drawn too close together, gravitational collapse happens and a dense ball of gas is formed, resulting in stars being formed. The fusion process in the centre of the stars created all the heavier elements (and the heavier the element, the bigger the star it originally came from), and should the star have been big enough, upon stellar death it explodes in a supernova, flinging the elements formed in it's core across the universe. Now then, other stars will exert their own bending of space-time for their gravitational effect - these particles from the centres of dying stars can congregate and be drawn into orbit around the star (or even a particularly large planet - as the rings of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune show). Now they also exert a small bit of gravity, and combined with collisions with each other can form bigger and bigger clumps of matter, which then pull in other clumps of matter and over many years will eventually form planets. basically - everything in the universe exists because stars died. Where did those dying stars come from ?
The Doctor Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Where did those dying stars come from ? First two lines of the post you quoted: From the big bang can only the very light elements (hydrogen, helium and lithium) - nothing bigger. However when these gases are drawn too close together, gravitational collapse happens and a dense ball of gas is formed, resulting in stars being formed.
Babylon Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Where did those dying stars come from ? It doesn't matter what theory you believe, at some point you have to accept something just "was".
Dr The Singh Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Oh no, very much so - Intelligent design is a trojan horse for creationism, nothing more. However if you want to go down that way, you're suggesting something is guiding evolution - which is not exactly true. Selection may guide evolution, but there is no external influence on it, and certainly no intelligence guiding it. I dunno mate, i'm no christian, and knew nothing about creationism untill senior school, I was taught concepts that taught me about a world that is ever learning and ever changing. Whether it's true or not, is no matter to anyone, my personal belief is personal to me and no-one else, the point I made was, there are differing thoughts that do agree with concepts such as evolution in there own way. Mankind is still very young, to say there is no superior force that is part of the universe, is abit premature
leicsmac Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Where did those dying stars come from ? From the lighter elements that were left in the aftermath of the Big Bang, which coalesced into the first stars due to gravity. As for the Big Bang itself...please read my post above.
Carl the Llama Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Of course, it's important to remember that it's the big bang theory, and the theory of evolution.
leicsmac Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Of course, it's important to remember that it's the big bang theory, and the theory of evolution. Yep, in the same way there is a theory of gravity and theory of Relativity.
Zingari Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 I think they've just made all this big bang stuff up where did the gravity come from to make the gases coalesce ?
Zingari Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 It doesn't matter what theory you believe, at some point you have to accept something just "was". I'd sooner just not believe any of them if it's all the same to you
leicsmac Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 I think they've just made all this big bang stuff up where did the gravity come from to make the gases coalesce ? From gravitons, an elementary particle that mediates gravity in the same way that a photon does for light and other electromagnetic forces. However it's a bitch to detect. About 75% of the stuff (mass) in our Universe that actually generates gravity hasn't been detected and identified by us yet. That's why people hark on about 'dark matter'.
The Doctor Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 Of course, it's important to remember that it's the big bang theory, and the theory of evolution. If I had a pound for every time I'd heard this I'd be richer than Bill Gates. Theory in science does not mean what it means in layman terms, a scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. It is not a guess, it is one of the highest levels of validity achievable in the scientific community.
Captain... Posted 28 January 2013 Posted 28 January 2013 It doesn't matter what theory you believe, at some point you have to accept something just "was". You mean have faith?
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