Dr The Singh Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 It's old enough not to believe in pixies and magic. What about Santa?
BoneDog Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 10 pages to catch up on. Will probably have a crack later. I apologise in advance.
flowwolf Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 When did you actually last study the Bible? And which dodgy version or translation did you read? What about the Koran? Or one of the many ancient Indian books for example? If you had read and half understood any of them, you would not be calling them a 'people who could not comprehend'. The composers were just as bright, perhaps brighter than any of the best we've got around nowadays. They may not have had the modern technology, but that doesn't say anything about their intelligence and knowledge of their surroundings. Science is not frowned upon by religion, and the religions I know of encourage scientific thought and action, which is the opposite of what you seem to think. So are you saying you believe that moses parted the waves of a sea and Jesus fed thousands of people on a few loaves and fishes just to mention a few ? yes they sound real bright composers, almost as stupid as their reading clients.
flowwolf Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 Mohammed is not the messiah he's just a very naughty boy.
BoneDog Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 No I don't believe that Moses did it. He never claimed to have done. Read my words again about 'dodgy translations' and such like. I'm interested in the real history and not the modern interpretations that are way off mark (purposefully off mark at that). I haven't caught up with this thread yet but barring a catastrophe I'll do it in the morn. Bet I'm in for a reet treat eh!
Captain... Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 Both of them, and together they create the subject, the translaor is probably to blame in some cases too. Religion promoted both peace and blood shed depending on which chapter your reading. "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly" "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; " " whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." "And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die" I'm at work at the minute so I'll probably get sacked for being a member of the EDL if I quote one of man passagers from the Koran about violence and women but believe me there are plenty. So you agree the fault is with man, not god, I appreciate you don't see the difference as you believe that man created god and not the other way round, but if there was a god, because his word has been recorded by man, retold by man, translated by man and twisted by man, it doesn't necessarily mean god is at fault and that all religions are wrong in their entirety. If you believe god have man free will and guidelines on how to be a good person, then he can't stop people using that free will to abuse his word, without becoming a violent vengeful interventionalist god, which would in against his teachings as a peaceful deity.
Vacamion Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 Science is not frowned upon by religion, and the religions I know of encourage scientific thought and action, which is the opposite of what you seem to think. Hmmmm, let me think... The trial of Galileo. The treatment by the church of Tycho Brahe & Johannes Kepler for heliocentric views. The index of banned books. Belief in the literal truth of transubstantiation to the exclusion of science. Martin Luther's take on reason was that it was "a whore". Evolution denial and the resultant deficit in intelligent discussion of where humans came from. The Catholic church taking until the late 20th century to denouce the concept of "Limbo" for infants who die unbaptised. Bertrand Russell was persecuted by Christians and was ruled "morally unfit" to teach philosophy. Alan Turing was persecuted to the point of suicide for being a homosexual (at at time when the concept of "sin" for activities carried out in private by consenting adults framed the law) Vaccination programs denounced by Imams, resulting in polio vaccination workers shot dead in Pakistan and Polio re-emerging in North Africa. The notion of a the zygote having "a soul", leading to the banning of birth control and the subjugation of women as obedient breeding machines. James Corbett is a high school teacher in Orange County who is being sued by one of his students (successfully) for saying that creationism is "superstitious nonsense". The banning of embyonic stem cell research in the USA. Senior Catholics in Africa maintaining the ban on condom use, suggesting that condoms cause A.I.D.S. The Catholic Church confirming it will excommunicate any scientists working on embryonic stem cell reseach (even if just on a 150 cell blastocyst). So, on balance, I disagree.
Rincewind Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 We are a mass of mess consisting of thousands of cells held together by a fleshy outer lining. The brain consists of thousands of computer-like chips that are able to reason and use logic. All this was thrown together on the ground and rose up and said boo just as God was going over his sketches for designing the human race.
Daggers Posted 29 January 2013 Posted 29 January 2013 If you believe god have man free will and guidelines on how to be a good person, then he can't stop people using that free will to abuse his word Of course. An omnipotent being must be absolutely powerless in the face of free will. The omnipotent being which in its omniscience decided that to get a message of its guidlines across it would steer clear of television, print media and the internet. I think your god needs to go on a Tommy G business studies course.
danny. Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 No I don't believe that Moses did it. He never claimed to have done. Read my words again about 'dodgy translations' and such like. I'm interested in the real history and not the modern interpretations that are way off mark (purposefully off mark at that). Who decides which parts have been translated correctly or not? If some bits have been incorrectly translated how can you be sure it all hasn't? In which case, how can you know anything about the 'original' version?
Rincewind Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 If the Bible is God's words why didn't he say 'OI that is not what I meant.'? Especially the bits about smashing baby's heads against rocks, killing priests of other religions and beating servants.
flowwolf Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Who decides which parts have been translated correctly or not? If some bits have been incorrectly translated how can you be sure it all hasn't? In which case, how can you know anything about the 'original' version? Forgive me but why do we need to " learn " anything from these books at all ? what do they bring to the table of learning and understand the meaning of life, if indeed there is a meaning at all, how will reading or studying any of them make me or the world a better place ? The only conclusion I have come too over the years is that Religion brings nothing but division , hatred , death and destruction. And if there is an after life I have a sneaky suspicion that all the religious people are in for a bloody big shock when they become enlightened enough to realise they have been wasting their lives being conned.
Kitchandro Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Just so I know is this thread 22 pages of borderline racism and people trying to prove religion wrong?
The Doctor Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Just so I know is this thread 22 pages of borderline racism and people trying to prove religion wrong? And science. And major levels of stupidity - like man being around with dinosaurs.
flowwolf Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Just so I know is this thread 22 pages of borderline racism and people trying to prove religion wrong? Or people trying to prove religion right ? Not sure I know what you mean by boarderline racism it either is or it isn't.But in any case it has proved rather popular wouldn't you say.
Kitchandro Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Or people trying to prove religion right ? Not sure I know what you mean by boarderline racism it either is or it isn't.But in any case it has proved rather popular wouldn't you say. Certainly has There's only so long I can ignore a thread when it's at the top of the page day after day. As for racism you'd think it would be straightforward but so often on this forum things aren't
Raw Dykes Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Let's just take a minute to really think about the monumental absurdity of the idea of an Abrahamic god - the creator of the universe who watches over all 7 billion of us at all times and is really interested in who we sleep with. He's supposed to have made the universe with us in mind, even though we are confined to living on only parts of only the crust of only one of planets in but one of the solar systems in only one of the hundreds of billions of galaxies he bothered making. He apparently wanted to give us a message, so he thought the best thing to do would be to tell a few shepherds in the arse-end of nowhere in the Middle East in the Bronze Age, and then just leave it at that. I really don't know where to start with this. Honestly, if you can believe in something like this, then I fear for your sanity. If I tell you I've got an invisible friend, the very least I'm going to expect is a few laughs.
Guest Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Like Kitchandro I've finally wandered into this thread to be greeted by a great post by Raw Dykes. I've got no idea how the thread got to this point but that was good value
ozleicester Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 I believe in miracles oh...and VERY high, tight trousers
Captain... Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 Of course. An omnipotent being must be absolutely powerless in the face of free will. The omnipotent being which in its omniscience decided that to get a message of its guidlines across it would steer clear of television, print media and the internet. I think your god needs to go on a Tommy G business studies course. Who said he was omnipotent? or all powerful? you only have the word of man on that, and as has already been proved the word of man cannot be trusted. God could be many things, from the creator to the shepherd, to bringer of death or giver of life and love, the fact that religious texts have clearly got it wrong, whether it be through deliberate lies or lost in translation or Chinese whispers does not prove or disprove the presence of god only the inaccuracy of these texts.
Manwell Pablo Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 So you agree the fault is with man, not god, I appreciate you don't see the difference as you believe that man created god and not the other way round, but if there was a god, because his word has been recorded by man, retold by man, translated by man and twisted by man, it doesn't necessarily mean god is at fault and that all religions are wrong in their entirety. If you believe god have man free will and guidelines on how to be a good person, then he can't stop people using that free will to abuse his word, without becoming a violent vengeful interventionalist god, which would in against his teachings as a peaceful deity. Tedious question Yes you are totally correct I believe there is no God so therefore, all of which you have just put is irrelevant. And if there is one he is done an increadible job of creating an extremly cruel world, and the bible is his book then it is one of the most damming biographies ever written and if god is real and all of his teachings have been misinterpretated and the result is the Chirstian religion that makes that religion little more than a lie anyway and pointless following.
Zingari Posted 30 January 2013 Posted 30 January 2013 We can either believe that a wonderful loving God made the world, everything in it and all the wonders of nature and balance , or that everything was just a big mindless bang reulting in a frothing soup from which everything emerged . Personally I think they’re both crap explanations and would rather accept that I just don’t know how and why everything exists because it’s probably way out of the capabilities of human comprehension Life's too short to worry about it
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