Col city fan Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Many of our fans frequently discuss 'stability' in football. 'We've changed our manager too frequently over the last ten years,' they will shout. But, what really does 'stability' in football mean? Leicester City Football Club could have retained many managers over the years in the quest for the Holy Grail of 'stability'. But which of you, to be honest, would have given the likes of Taylor, Ollie, Sousa, even Sven any longer than they had to 'get things right'? These were managers who had done either pretty well, or very well elsewhere, only to come to City to fail. Should we have kept them in post for longer because they could then bring 'stability' to the club? Personally, to take Sousa as an example, I breathed a sigh of relief when he got sacked, as surely did most people. So why is Nigel Pearson any different? He's now had a full year or so in the job, has got lots right, but recently lots wrong. Do we keep him on for 'stability' or do we let him go because he could easily go the same way as the others have gone? I don't really know the answer to be honest, thats why I'm putting it out there. Finally, there are plenty of examples where changing the manager does prove dividends. Chelsea last season, going nowhere under AVB, brought in DiMatteo and then did the double. this season in the Championship.... I would have no surprise if Billy Davies gets Forest into the play-offs come the end, yet, a month ago, they were going nowhere. Dougie Freedman at Bolton has only been in the job less than a season and seems to have the team firing on all cylinders. Zola, the same.. What is 'stability'? Is it really important? How long does a manager get before it becomes prudent, weighing everything up, to change him? Opinions please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 People will deflect criticism because we are supposedly doing well that is no change is required I would argue that is nescessary to see us get promotion. I can give two examples in the past, because it happened! Garry Smegson got sacked by the Wendies despite sitting 3rd in the table Dave Jones took over and led them to promotion, and likewise with Lee Clark at Huddersfield appointed Simon Grayson and the rest is history. If we appointed a manager say Adkins or Di Matteo I am confident we would see a faster rate of progress, than NP because they are better managers at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 So why is Nigel Pearson any different? Can you seriously not see that Nigel Pearson has done a much better job than Sven, Sousa, Ollie and Taylor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 The other managers didn't do well here. Pearson has imo. And Pearson has reduced the wage bill after Sven's spending spree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theessexfox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Because stability isn't just staying with a club for a long time, its progressing it, getting in good players, etc, which Pearson has done better than any of the others you name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cropwellfox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 There's plenty of examples of both sides. The parallel with Megson last year at Wednesday is a good one albeit we are three games further on. Elsewhere this season, McLeish was a disaster, Davies has had immediate impact, Freedman took a while to get started but now on a great run, Flitcroft at Barnsley an immediate positive bounce but now struggling a bit, whilst Saunders hasn't done anything at all. Every example different. The question our owners will have to conclude on is whether this is a slightly extended 'dip', or whether our set-up and tactics have been found out at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxesAreBlue Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 I think a manager should have at least a full pre-season and then the following season in charge, even then if we don't get promoted it shouldn't just be an instant sacking based on wherever we finish, the owners should look at all aspects of the squad the we as fans will never see, how they actually work together on the training field, weather the can see that progress in being made in areas such as skill, fitness, science etc. Then weigh up weather to sack or not, as far as I see it, it will GENERALLY be harder for a new man to come in and do a job, yes there are a few exceptions such as those listed above but they are just that, exceptions. Should we finish in the playoffs this season, and I still predict that we will, than that is an improvement on last year. If we get a new manager now he has a whole squad of players from whom he has to earn some respect and a whole squad that he has to learn about and learn how to manage - all with only a handful of games left to go. I think Pearson should have at least until the end of the season, then we should evaluate weather he is the man to take us forward next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 But crucially another factor to weigh in is the financial situation where we have to achieve promotion this season that is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 I think Pearson should have at least until the end of the season, then we should evaluate weather he is the man to take us forward next season. I totally agree. I don't see how it could benefit us to change at this stage. It's all if buts and maybes but this could still be a promotion campaign. Give him this season and then if they feel he hasn't met their objectives and won't take us any further pull the trigger by all means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 But crucially another factor to weigh in is the financial situation where we have to achieve promotion this season that is the problem. So, assuming that's correct, Pearson should be sacked for the owners mistake? Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Stability is an urban myth- you get stability if you get success but to keep a clearly struggling manager in the job for the sake of stability is a nonsense and is rarely done by succesful clubs. Those who keep their jobs usually do it after proving something. Had Nige stayed and got promotion the season after the play offs I dare say he would have stayed for a while in the PRemier. However, after a mediocre season at Hull where they finished below us, despite our woeful start and an OK start for them followed buy a woeful season for us last season and this year where promotion is the only option for him he needs to achieve that or at least be seen as incredibly unlucky to have missed out (finish third and then lose to a freak goal at Wembley etc). It is at this stage of the season you need to come good, the race is on and he failed at this stage last year and appears to be doing so again. We should keep him if he stages a last bid for second by going on another spree - it is not a bad thing that the fans let him know via the games or the message boards or by staying away that anything less than this equals failure and stability under these circumstances is not welcome. It is in Niges hands to change it, he has all the players he wants and one of the biggest followings outside the Premier League so failing is not an option unless he wants to go back to league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 People will deflect criticism because we are supposedly doing well that is no change is required I would argue that is nescessary to see us get promotion. I can give two examples in the past, because it happened! Garry Smegson got sacked by the Wendies despite sitting 3rd in the table Dave Jones took over and led them to promotion, and likewise with Lee Clark at Huddersfield appointed Simon Grayson and the rest is history. If we appointed a manager say Adkins or Di Matteo I am confident we would see a faster rate of progress, than NP because they are better managers at this level. Can you guarantee that? Will we definitely get promotion if we appoint Adkins or Di Matteo, because if you can I'll support sacking Pearson. But we all know that you can't, we all know that as soon as these brilliant, yet sacked, managers lose 3 games on the trot you'll be demanding that they're sacked and we get somebody else in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Can you guarantee that? Will we definitely get promotion if we appoint Adkins or Di Matteo, because if you can I'll support sacking Pearson. But we all know that you can't, we all know that as soon as these brilliant, yet sacked, managers lose 3 games on the trot you'll be demanding that they're sacked and we get somebody else in. How do you judge a manager then? surely on his credentials to get promotion from this division, I never wanted Sven and never wanted NP back because they never achieved promotion from this division which is the aim isn't it for our club. But crucially you probably don't judge a manager on their past successes because they were in the past or am I wrong? Obviously every managers deserves time as you point out NP has had enough time imo to get us firing on all cylinders with regards to promotion gave him the benefit of the doubt last season because that wasn't his team of players so rightly he had the summer/pre season to mould his squad for this season for promotion automatically which was the remit, he said it the players said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 how many managers have forest had this season? where are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJS Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 People tend to get his the wrong way around. They cite Ferguson and Wenger, conveniently forgetting that the former finished second in his first full season and the latter won the double in his. They earned their time. The stability at those clubs resulted from success. Who wants stable mediocrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big cairnzy Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 We will reach the play offs lads. NP is the man. 2 wins in 10 ok so not bloody great. 5 wins from remaining 10 should do it.Then we can take any1. Come on !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shade Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 how many managers have forest had this season? where are they now? below us, innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettsj2 Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 I dont really want to see Pearson replaced but I can see the possible benefits. On the other hand, I hate the fact the last time we had a manager for a full pre-season and following season was Pearsons last play off season. I just dont know anymore. I thought he'd get us out of the run we're in but there just isnt any sign of it. But if we appoint someone and it doesnt work and we still drop out of the play offs, what then? Fire them and hire someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboytim Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 below us, innit. At the moment. If their form and ours continue as they have been over the last few games then they won't be below us for very much longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 There is a bit of a confirmation bias at play, as managers who have kept their jobs for long periods are almost always successful managers, it is easy to look at that and think that keeping a manager for a long period helps towards the success. There probably isn't any correlation, just good managers and bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 johnny the fox, on 10 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said: how many managers have forest had this season? where are they now? below us, innit. At the moment. If their form and ours continue as they have been over the last few games then they won't be below us for very much longer My point was there is no hard and fast rule.. after all the upheaval at forest this season and all the duff choices of manager and terrible form, they are now breathing down our necks, us the steady eddie's one manager plan.. does that reflect well on us?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 How do you judge a manager then? surely on his credentials to get promotion from this division, I never wanted Sven and never wanted NP back because they never achieved promotion from this division which is the aim isn't it for our club. But crucially you probably don't judge a manager on their past successes because they were in the past or am I wrong? Obviously every managers deserves time as you point out NP has had enough time imo to get us firing on all cylinders with regards to promotion gave him the benefit of the doubt last season because that wasn't his team of players so rightly he had the summer/pre season to mould his squad for this season for promotion automatically which was the remit, he said it the players said it. But Adkins and DiMatteo hadn't got promotion out of this division until they got their chance. Pearson had a better CV than Di Matteo when he got the WBA because he'd achieved promotion from league 1. If the only people who got jobs were people with proven records of success there would never be any new managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Its all about expectations. At club like Everton have had Moyes for 10+ years but have won **** all..They expect to win an FA cup at the least. We expect to be in the chase for auto. We aint...cos the players bottled it..Owners will be getting very twitchy. They aint spent millions for us to miss out on the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Owners will be getting very twitchy. They aint spent millions for us to miss out on the play offs. We've been in the top six all season, hopefully they aren't completely insane and they let him spend ten more games trying to keep us there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 March 2013 Share Posted 10 March 2013 Pearson is different because he's better than the rest. That's the impression I get. Some managers deserved to be sacked in the quest to find a better one. I personally feel we'll struggle to get someone better than Pearson so we should stick with what we've got. It's very difficult to find good managers so when you do find one who's leading the club in the right direction you should allow him to make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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