Moosedog Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 I don't care if Watford want to play like barcelona, we will just play like Bayern munich Watford fans.... When does your transfer embargo end? I heard it was September??? There is no embargo, the FL has to check the paperwork of any signings to see it is ok, I also believe that if a debt is payed which the previous owner run up that would be lifted anyway just to clarify things this was imposed for a deal the previous owner did for the Danny Graham transfer and has nothing to do you with us signing loan players or anything to do with the Pozzo's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grewks Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 There is no embargo, the FL has to check the paperwork of any signings to see it is ok, I also believe that if a debt is payed which the previous owner run up that would be lifted anyway just to clarify things this was imposed for a deal the previous owner did for the Danny Graham transfer and has nothing to do you with us signing loan players or anything to do with the Pozzo's But if the FA is looking to change the rules, you may not be able to sign or loan players from the 'Pozzo's', that would screw you right up would it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bevan Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 I don't have anything against watford and I do think Zola is a cracking manager but SOME of their fans are *****, the way they are just brushing us off as if we are not a threat and there is no respect for us from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosedog Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 The FA are not looking at it at all. The FL are discussing it at their AGM and the chances are that a lot of FL chairman will not vote for any changes, also the International loan or transfer rule is a FIFA rule and the FL will have to take on them if they want change plus the EU could get involved as it could break EU law. If the FL do change it then FIFA will stop the FL allowing emergency loans and loans outside the transfer windows this will close the loophole of teams using the emergency loans to improve their team for a promotion push which is not in the spirit the the law. If the FL do anything to stop Watford they will be to late all it will do is stop other teams from doing it Watford will just sign players on a free rather than on loan and Udinese could still subsidise their wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 The FA are not looking at it at all. The FL are discussing it at their AGM and the chances are that a lot of FL chairman will not vote for any changes, also the International loan or transfer rule is a FIFA rule and the FL will have to take on them if they want change plus the EU could get involved as it could break EU law. If the FL do change it then FIFA will stop the FL allowing emergency loans and loans outside the transfer windows this will close the loophole of teams using the emergency loans to improve their team for a promotion push which is not in the spirit the the law. If the FL do anything to stop Watford they will be to late all it will do is stop other teams from doing it Watford will just sign players on a free rather than on loan and Udinese could still subsidise their wages So you didn't really get punished for breaking the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosedog Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 No, but the former owner has been banned from football for three years. It was Watford that brought to the attention of the FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Watford have fans who will go out club bashing on every forum out there, so do we, so does every club. But what is disgusting is their policy of loaning in players from foreign clubs that stifle any chance of young, British talent coming into the club be it through the academy or otherwise. It shows that the monstrous football culture grown primarily in the Premier League has synthesized itself in the Football League in the form of Watford Football Club, a side that is three quarters made up of players that aren't good enough for the clubs they really want to play for. Watford F.C is being used, and the fans that come here defending these points are being used just as much. I don't dislike them; I just feel sorry for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxWFC Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Watford have fans who will go out club bashing on every forum out there, so do we, so does every club. But what is disgusting is their policy of loaning in players from foreign clubs that stifle any chance of young, British talent coming into the club be it through the academy or otherwise. It shows that the monstrous football culture grown primarily in the Premier League has synthesized itself in the Football League in the form of Watford Football Club, a side that is three quarters made up of players that aren't good enough for the clubs they really want to play for. Watford F.C is being used, and the fans that come here defending these points are being used just as much. I don't dislike them; I just feel sorry for them. http://www.watford.vitalfootball.co.uk/sitepage.asp?a=318631 Homegrown players this season for Watford - 8 For Leicester - 3 Ruining English football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 http://www.watford.vitalfootball.co.uk/sitepage.asp?a=318631 Homegrown players this season for Watford - 8 For Leicester - 3 Ruining English football. You do realise 'home grown' is anything to come through English academies? Okay. Here goes. Schmeichel De Leat Morgan Keane Konchesky Dyer King James Drinkwater Marshall Gallagher Wellens Waghorn Nugent Wood Kane Want me to keep going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 http://www.watford.vitalfootball.co.uk/sitepage.asp?a=318631 Homegrown players this season for Watford - 8 For Leicester - 3 Ruining English football. And how often have those eight players been on the pitch for you this season? How regularly? Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most cases this campaign, 60% or more of your starting eleven consisted of loan players from Udinese and Granada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 http://www.watford.vitalfootball.co.uk/sitepage.asp?a=318631 Homegrown players this season for Watford - 8 For Leicester - 3 Ruining English football. How many of those 8 were main components of your team week in week out? Genuine question as the 3 that came through our academy have been at various points key players. Also as far as 'homegrown' goes there's plenty of English and British players in our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicesterseddon Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Urgh. Let's face it, all this postering on forums is a bit tedious. To be honest, I think Watford are a better team than us this year...going not just off last night, but the league game as well. They aren't world-beaters, but I think if most of us were honest we'd say we've been lucky to get into the play-offs and that there probably is a reason they finished 3rd and we finished 6th. I don't really have a problem admitting that, since: 1) It's a statement about the ability of their team, not their average crowd / size of stadium / population and all the other rubbish people seem to care so much about 2) Although they have been better this season, I think the standard of the league has generally been poor this year, and like every other team they are very beatable 3) Over a two-leg play-off fixture, anything can happen For what it's worth, I also think both teams would struggle if promoted, unless they made some very good signings. One last thing - the loanees situation. Yes it is wrong that you can field the number of loanees Watford have been this season, and hopefully the league might take action if Watford do go up. But at the moment, they aren't breaking any rules and are just playing the system that is there. If people really feel that strongly about it, you'd probably be better off writing an email to the Football League than ranting on about it to Waford fans on an internet fourm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko2k7 Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 The FA are not looking at it at all. The FL are discussing it at their AGM and the chances are that a lot of FL chairman will not vote for any changes, also the International loan or transfer rule is a FIFA rule and the FL will have to take on them if they want change plus the EU could get involved as it could break EU law. If the FL do change it then FIFA will stop the FL allowing emergency loans and loans outside the transfer windows this will close the loophole of teams using the emergency loans to improve their team for a promotion push which is not in the spirit the the law. If the FL do anything to stop Watford they will be to late all it will do is stop other teams from doing it Watford will just sign players on a free rather than on loan and Udinese could still subsidise their wages So hold your saying that Watford Could sign all these loan players for free and Udinese/Granada would still be paying part of their wages . How can anyone argue that is fair ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxWFC Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 So hold your saying that Watford Could sign all these loan players for free and Udinese/Granada would still be paying part of their wages . How can anyone argue that is fair ? You need to look at it properly. It's not about getting the players from Udinese or Granada for free. It's the same owners, the Pozzos are our owners and they spent their money to get these players in the first place. Who pays for their wages? Maybe this season, the revenue that Udinese have gained and the Pozzos from their previous transfers. But what happens when Watford get to the Premier League? Maybe we will be helping Udinese get funds for players. Nothing is free, the Pozzos want to make money. We're borrowing from the Pozzos, hardly different to borrowing from a bank... maybe a bit more secure? As has been said, I don't see it as any less fair than having rich Arab/Asian/American etc owners who barely know the meaning of money. When we were on the brinks of administration, we would have done anything to have someone with any money.. and a lot of us would've seen what you, Cardiff etc have as unfair. Now that we are doing well and doing something unique, clever and sustainable.. we're getting the same envious remarks. Surely if we were near relegation nobody would care... You do realise 'home grown' is anything to come through English academies? Okay. Here goes. Schmeichel De Leat Morgan Keane Konchesky Dyer King James Drinkwater Marshall Gallagher Wellens Waghorn Nugent Wood Kane Want me to keep going? Don't be a pedant. I don't see how buying players you didn't produce shows a contribution from Leicester to the home-grown talent pool. The point was that the loanees are getting in the way of our academy players. That's completely false. The Pozzos bought us because they liked our youth setup. We have a pretty good history of producing good talent and playing young players. I'm not judging your team though, you have a fair amount of British players in your team. But I think it's unfair to compare us negatively to other clubs with some fairytale that we're playing no academy players and everyone else has loads. And how often have those eight players been on the pitch for you this season? How regularly? Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most cases this campaign, 60% or more of your starting eleven consisted of loan players from Udinese and Granada. Lloyd Doyley - 37 apps Tommie Hoban - 19 apps. Would've been a lot more if he wasn't injured. Connor Smith - 7 apps. Sean Murray - 16 apps. Jonathan Bond - 10 Apps. Bonham - 1... and hopefully his only 1 at that. Hodson - A couple, can't find the stat. He's on loan at the moment Not 100% on the 8th player, Ross Jenkins I think. At least 3 or 4 of these players have been important in our season. Some are really important players and will be in the future too. Very young players don't always get a lot of games, that's how it is. Read one or two comments from WFC fans who give the impression that they were the unlucky victims of a giant killing act on Thursday..disrespecful in the extreme, as is labelling us a 'hoofball' team. Two decent Championship teams going head to head over two games and, in truth, very little betwen them in terms of current ability. In terms of support though, and heritage the two are poles apart! Heh... I'm sure Leicester fans and every other team that thought it was bigger than us... Forest, Leeds, Cardiff, Derby, Ipswich, even fkin Bristol City... were saying all of that about Watford over the last 3 or 4 years. Every win was a "lucky giant killing" using hoofball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 I'd put Watford fans joint second in the 'most deluded opposition fans' position, alongside Hull. Bristol City still have by far the most deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He's not bald Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Not withstanding your hypocrisy (who is being arrogant now?) I tend to agree with some of this thread, ie too many of our fans seem to have forgotten where we were and where we were heading a year ago. I do think though that many Leicester fans seem to place their natural place in the football heirachy as somewhere between Everton and Liverpool - if that is not what you are accusing Watford of then pot and kettle comes to mind. I think the biggest difference between you and us is that we suffer from an inferiority complex whereas you suffer from a superiority complex - neither of which is warranted or deserved. The truth is there is not much difference between the two clubs. Remember having the same discussion in a pub in Dunstable with Luton fans back in the 80's...be very careful what you say cuz you them and the MK Wronz are all plastic Cockernees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjslcfc Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 You need to look at it properly. It's not about getting the players from Udinese or Granada for free. It's the same owners, the Pozzos are our owners and they spent their money to get these players in the first place. Who pays for their wages? Maybe this season, the revenue that Udinese have gained and the Pozzos from their previous transfers. But what happens when Watford get to the Premier League? Maybe we will be helping Udinese get funds for players. Nothing is free, the Pozzos want to make money. We're borrowing from the Pozzos, hardly different to borrowing from a bank... maybe a bit more secure? As has been said, I don't see it as any less fair than having rich Arab/Asian/American etc owners who barely know the meaning of money. When we were on the brinks of administration, we would have done anything to have someone with any money.. and a lot of us would've seen what you, Cardiff etc have as unfair. Now that we are doing well and doing something unique, clever and sustainable.. we're getting the same envious remarks. Surely if we were near relegation nobody would care... Don't be a pedant. I don't see how buying players you didn't produce shows a contribution from Leicester to the home-grown talent pool. The point was that the loanees are getting in the way of our academy players. That's completely false. The Pozzos bought us because they liked our youth setup. We have a pretty good history of producing good talent and playing young players. Lloyd Doyley - 37 apps Tommie Hoban - 19 apps. Would've been a lot more if he wasn't injured. Connor Smith - 7 apps. Sean Murray - 16 apps. Jonathan Bond - 10 Apps. Bonham - 1... and hopefully his only 1 at that. Hodson - A couple, can't find the stat. He's on loan at the moment Not 100% on the 8th player, Ross Jenkins I think. As you said, at least 3 or 4 of these players have been important in our season. Some are really important players and will be in the future too. Very young players don't always get a lot of games, that's how it is. Personally I agree that Watford has always produced good young British players like Ashley Young etc... However, you're just being plain ignorant to say that buying young players that weren't ours originally contributes nothing to the home grown talent pool... Fact of the matter is that by buying young homegrown/British players who wouldn't get a sniff at their parent club and developing them by giving them regular first team action etc.. is certainly a massive contribution to the home grown talent pool. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFACE Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Burnley have close to 13'000 fans for each home game (just like Watford), and their city is smaller than yours. Why don't you get bigger crowds then? Surely with all this success, you must get your fair share of plastic fans popping up here and there. Or is a large bunch of the current 13'500 fans that you get per average at Vicarage Road just fairweather people? Watford fans are on loan from Udinese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosedog Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 So hold your saying that Watford Could sign all these loan players for free and Udinese/Granada would still be paying part of their wages . How can anyone argue that is fair ? So hold your saying that Watford Could sign all these loan players for free and Udinese/Granada would still be paying part of their wages . How can anyone argue that is fair ? They have already signed Forestieri on a free. I am not argueing that its fair it is nothing new it happens in this country when a club whats a player off its books and are prepared to pay a percentage of the wages. Football is a business and you use your assets to the best of your ability, Watford have always tried to live within there means and have never gone into administration unlike some teams that build new stadiums and then go into adminstration leaving 30 mil of debt can you argue that is fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxWFC Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Personally I agree that Watford has always produced good young British players like Ashley Young etc... However, you're just being plain ignorant to say that buying young players that weren't ours originally contributes nothing to the home grown talent pool... Fact of the matter is that by buying young homegrown/British players who wouldn't get a sniff at their parent club and developing them by giving them regular first team action etc.. is certainly a massive contribution to the home grown talent pool. Don't you think? I edited my above post - bad habit of mine. I agree to an extent. I think it depends on who you're buying. I don't see owning Konchesky as particularly productive... where as we have been loaning players such as Chalobah, Cleverley, Foster, Adam Johnson etc for years now. In terms of helping the English game that's not bad... better than rotting in the reserves. I suppose some of our loaning over the years has been better for English football than outright owning the player. You have some of that too I'm sure... Kane... Cleverley a few years ago.. etc. I didn't say "buying young players" doesn't help - but the general point here isn't to have a go at Leicester. Watford produce lots of youth players and play them. That won't stop now... when you're improving as a team it's impossible to keep playing as many youth players... we can only play the youth players who are good enough. None of the teams who get promoted can survive relying on their own youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miked2006 Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 You need to look at it properly. It's not about getting the players from Udinese or Granada for free. It's the same owners, the Pozzos are our owners and they spent their money to get these players in the first place. Who pays for their wages? Maybe this season, the revenue that Udinese have gained and the Pozzos from their previous transfers. But what happens when Watford get to the Premier League? Maybe we will be helping Udinese get funds for players. Nothing is free, the Pozzos want to make money. We're borrowing from the Pozzos, hardly different to borrowing from a bank... maybe a bit more secure? As has been said, I don't see it as any less fair than having rich Arab/Asian/American etc owners who barely know the meaning of money. When we were on the brinks of administration, we would have done anything to have someone with any money.. and a lot of us would've seen what you, Cardiff etc have as unfair. Now that we are doing well and doing something unique, clever and sustainable.. we're getting the same envious remarks. Surely if we were near relegation nobody would care... Don't be a pedant. I don't see how buying players you didn't produce shows a contribution from Leicester to the home-grown talent pool. The point was that the loanees are getting in the way of our academy players. That's completely false. The Pozzos bought us because they liked our youth setup. We have a pretty good history of producing good talent and playing young players. Lloyd Doyley - 37 apps Tommie Hoban - 19 apps. Would've been a lot more if he wasn't injured. Connor Smith - 7 apps. Sean Murray - 16 apps. Jonathan Bond - 10 Apps. Bonham - 1... and hopefully his only 1 at that. Hodson - A couple, can't find the stat. He's on loan at the moment Not 100% on the 8th player, Ross Jenkins I think. As you said, at least 3 or 4 of these players have been important in our season. Some are really important players and will be in the future too. Very young players don't always get a lot of games, that's how it is. This. I was just about to say this in a really longwinded way, but you got there first. The argument against the system is that the loanees are blocking our academy talent, which is simply not the case. Our current academy prospects are Hoban, Smith, Murray and Bond. The rest are not good enough. Zola played Hoban constantly before he became injured. Connor Smith was also started to be picked often before he was injured. Bond is a great talent but is too inexperienced, and will learn behind Almunia (who is our player btw). Murray is most unlucky out of these players, but has apparently spent the whole year in the pub and does not suit our new formation. If he wasn't such a lazy git, maybe I would say he is the only one who has been hard done by. Doyley is a one club man and would still line up for us next season, even if an atomic bomb hit the Vic on Sunday. I actually think this is the future of football. Very few owners make profits, but the Pozzo's seriously do. Having lots of quality players and being able to move them into the right club for their development (as long as there is a solid English base) before they are sold is a great way of running a football club, a much much better way than having an owner that puts a club into any serious debt. Plus... if we become an established Premier League team, we could loan our academy players to Grenada and give them experience of Spanish football for a year. I'd argue that's more beneficial for some of their development than playing in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 Did some research and these are my findings. Hodson hasn't made any appearances for Watford this season as far as I can tell. So for all your homegrown bullshit it hasn't come to much. I think it's fair to say our players have had a far greater impact on our season than yours i.e. you produce a bucket load of players but they're mostly shit (e.g. Doyley). You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjslcfc Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 I edited my above post - bad habit of mine. I agree to an extent. I think it depends on who you're buying. I don't see owning Konchesky as particularly productive... where as we have been loaning players such as Chalobah, Cleverley, Foster, Adam Johnson etc for years now. In terms of helping the English game that's not bad... better than rotting in the reserves. You have some of that too I'm sure... Kane... you had Cleverley before too.. I didn't say "buying young players" doesn't help - but the general point here isn't to have a go at Leicester. Watford produce lots of youth players and play them. That won't stop now... when you're improving as a team it's impossible to keep playing as many youth players... we can only play the youth players who are good enough. None of the teams who get promoted can survive relying on their own youth. haha now you're just making it seem like i'm arguing for the sake of it!! No and hopefully Konchesky will be gone after this season... But having older British players like him, Morgan and Nugent isn't exactly a bad thing. I also disagree with the "Watford are ruining English football" attitude. The loans haven't particularly got in the way of your British talent. In fact playing with these players who have great experience and are very technical is likely to help them come on in a technical sense as well. Under Nige we have a policy of loaning/buying young hungry players (mainly British like Kane, James, Drinkwater, Marshall, Cleverley, Mark Davies, Michael Keane...). Which I really like. We also have a smattering of foreign players - Schmeichel, Wood, Knockaert, De Laet... So we have a good mix and that will stay as long as Pearson is our manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosedog Posted 10 May 2013 Share Posted 10 May 2013 If your saying that all the Watford homegrown players are crap then it shouldn't matter that their International transfers are hindering their development as they are not good enough in the first place, by the way Anja is classified as a homegrown players as he came through Oxford and Wycombe youth teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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