Michael Gove in popularity push

[leicsmac]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22558756

 

 

Perhaps you should just stick to talking about leaving the EU, Mr Gove. 

 

Education (like health) is something that shouldn't be open to the whims of the market. Not at all levels, anyway.

[Captain...]

What amazes me is the line he seemed surprised by the negative reception. How on earth does he not know that his policies are universally hated.

[The Doctor]

What amazes me is the line he seemed surprised by the negative reception. How on earth does he not know that his policies are universally hated.

 

Particularly when teachers hate everyone. I'm convinced it's something to do with having to work with kids rather than work to escape from kids.

[Jon the Hat]

Any policy that pisses off this many teaching unions has got to be the right thing to do.

[leicsmac]

His policies and speeches betray a blatant mistrust of teachers that I cannot abide. Why the hell would anyone want a job taking dogs abuse from all sectors for what is (compared to most other office jobs) an average wage? Either they're all masochistic or they actually want to teach and help the kids. 

 

He seems to want to pursue a system of education that is a massive throwback. And having worked in one of the Asian education systems that he seems to admire so much I can say that the elite from those systems are certainly amongst the best in the world (the figures speak for themselves), but one of the costs is the highest teen suicide rates in the developed world. Not to mention kids working from 8.30am - 10pm almost every day.

Want an education system to ideas to emulate? Look at Finland.

[purpleronnie]

His policies and speeches betray a blatant mistrust of teachers that I cannot abide. Why the hell would anyone want a job taking dogs abuse from all sectors for what is (compared to most other office jobs) an average wage? Either they're all masochistic or they actually want to teach and help the kids. 

 

He seems to want to pursue a system of education that is a massive throwback. And having worked in one of the Asian education systems that he seems to admire so much I can say that the elite from those systems are certainly amongst the best in the world (the figures speak for themselves), but one of the costs is the highest teen suicide rates in the developed world. Not to mention kids working from 8.30am - 10pm almost every day.

Want an education system to ideas to emulate? Look at Finland.

 

I agree, dont finland kids only spend a few hours at school?  not sure that will go down well with working parents.

[leicsmac]

Particularly when teachers hate everyone. I'm convinced it's something to do with having to work with kids rather than work to escape from kids.

 

 They're just misunderstood. 

 

Any policy that pisses off this many teaching unions has got to be the right thing to do.

 

Pissing off the unions doesn't bother me - he's a Tory so that's going to happen, and they're going to squawk about it. Pay them no heed.

 

But he's pissing off the teachers themselves, when pretty much all they want to do is get on with their jobs without policy and curricula being changed every couple of years. Most of them don't give a toss about the politics - they just want to educate, as best they can.

[Bilo]

 They're just misunderstood. 

 

 

Pissing off the unions doesn't bother me - he's a Tory so that's going to happen, and they're going to squawk about it. Pay them no heed.

 

But he's pissing off the teachers themselves, when pretty much all they want to do is get on with their jobs without policy and curricula being changed every couple of years. Most of them don't give a toss about the politics - they just want to educate, as best they can.

 

Pretty much spot on.

 

Plenty are leaving the profession due to his changes to the curriculum, half cocked ideas and constant barrages of negativity. It's ultimately the kids who end up suffering when the curriculum and educational changes are simply unfit for purpose.

 

I have colleagues who've been in teaching for 20-30 years who can't remember an Education Secretary as universally loathed as Michael Gove. This isn't party political either, it's down to a man who is clearly on an ideological rather than educational crusade.

[Voll Blau]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/goves-lesson-spare-the-comma-spoil-the-child-8618624.html

 

Decent read.

[sdb]

The bloke is absolutely clueless. So badly under qualified for his role. 

[ADK]

It's what happens when you give someone power over something they know absolutely **** all about. Funnily enough i think i would make a decent education minister simply through having been through school recently enough to remember things that could be done better, things that don't work etc

[davieG]

This the problem with nationalised entities they don't perform badly because the people at the coal face are incompetent but because of political interference by dogmatic politicians from all parties who haven't got a clue about the lives and aspirations of the general public.

[ADK]

To be honest an awful lot of teachers are an absolute disgrace, but it helps if the man at the top knows what he's doing.

[MooseBreath]

Think it's about time teachers showed him some respect. They might be on the 'front line' but that doesn't mean they know what's best for every child in the country.

 

People higher up the chain have a better perspective from where to make changes and ought to be armed with the best research available. In any other profession when orders come down from the top they're to be respected. It often makes things more difficult for those on the front line but that's work.

 

In the real world, the minute you stop being able to adapt to change you're out of a job. Seems like teachers don't think this should apply to them, as if standing in front of a group of kids all day somehow gives them special status. Their job is to do what they're told. That's what they should do.

[ADK]

Think it's about time teachers showed him some respect. They might be on the 'front line' but that doesn't mean they know what's best for every child in the country.

 

People higher up the chain have a better perspective from where to make changes and ought to be armed with the best research available. In any other profession when orders come down from the top they're to be respected. It often makes things more difficult for those on the front line but that's work.

 

In the real world, the minute you stop being able to adapt to change you're out of a job. Seems like teachers don't think this should apply to them, as if standing in front of a group of kids all day somehow gives them special status. Their job is to do what they're told. That's what they should do.

 

Dosn't it get boring writing drivel?

[Bilo]

Think it's about time teachers showed him some respect. They might be on the 'front line' but that doesn't mean they know what's best for every child in the country.

 

People higher up the chain have a better perspective from where to make changes and ought to be armed with the best research available. In any other profession when orders come down from the top they're to be respected. It often makes things more difficult for those on the front line but that's work.

 

In the real world, the minute you stop being able to adapt to change you're out of a job. Seems like teachers don't think this should apply to them, as if standing in front of a group of kids all day somehow gives them special status. Their job is to do what they're told. That's what they should do.

 

 

Wow.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this.

[Finnegan]

Think it's about time teachers showed him some respect. They might be on the 'front line' but that doesn't mean they know what's best for every child in the country.

 

Perhaps but that doesn't make a hack journo with no experience in education other than the fact he was - at some point - educated any more qualified. 

[Bilo]

Perhaps but that doesn't make a hack journo with no experience in education other than the fact he was - at some point - educated any more qualified. 

 

 

[MooseBreath]

 

You could substitute "teaching" for any frontline job and "education" for any industry and this would be just as valid. Most people understand that being in the trenches doesn't mean you know how to win the war.

[leicsmac]

You could substitute "teaching" for any frontline job and "education" for any industry and this would be just as valid. Most people understand that being in the trenches doesn't mean you know how to win the war.

 

But the key difference is that unlike most businesses/industries, the end product of education (and healthcare, but that's a different debate) should not be financial profit. And that difference in end products means that different methods should be used to make success. 

 

That's what seems to be the problem here - Gove is trying to run education as if it were a business with material benefits, where in fact the benefits of education are anything but. 

 

And if you insist of using the business parallel the heads of most businesses at least have an idea of what goes on right at the bottom levels, most often having been there themselves once upon a time. This experience is considered key in most successful businesses. Gove does not have this experience. Ofsted actually suffers from this somewhat too.

[Webbo]

To read this thread you'd think that education in this country was in brilliant shape before 2010. 1 in 5 kids leave school in this country functionally illiterate, and that's after a reduction in class sizes, pay rises for teachers, all new bright and shiny new schools built under Labour. 

 

If the education secretary wasn't trying to change things I'd want to know why.

[leicsmac]

To read this thread you'd think that education in this country was in brilliant shape before 2010. 1 in 5 kids leave school in this country functionally illiterate, and that's after a reduction in class sizes, pay rises for teachers, all new bright and shiny new schools built under Labour. 

 

If the education secretary wasn't trying to change things I'd want to know why.

 

A figure rivalled by the US (20%), France (19.8%), New Zealand (18.4%) and Australia (17%).

 

Our winners in terms of functional literacy? Scandinavia takes the biscuit once again. Norway (7.9%), Finland (10.4%), Denmark (9.6%) and Sweden topping the lot (7.5%). 

 

Perhaps another reason to follow example?

 

As an aside, I'd very much like to know if this statistic has risen or fell under various governments over the last couple of decades. Additionally, speaking as a former teacher I still think class sizes are too big for effective learning other than by rote, which unless you want to turn kids into walking textbooks shouldn't be the only educational method used.

 

Edit: I don't mind an education secretary trying to change things - but these changes are not for the good of the system, they are ideological.

[MooseBreath]

But the key difference is that unlike most businesses/industries, the end product of education (and healthcare, but that's a different debate) should not be financial profit. And that difference in end products means that different methods should be used to make success. 

 

That's what seems to be the problem here - Gove is trying to run education as if it were a business with material benefits, where in fact the benefits of education are anything but. 

 

And if you insist of using the business parallel the heads of most businesses at least have an idea of what goes on right at the bottom levels, most often having been there themselves once upon a time. This experience is considered key in most successful businesses. Gove does not have this experience. Ofsted actually suffers from this somewhat too.

 

Is he trying to run it like a business? I'll be the first to admit I don't know the finer details of this story. All I see is Gove suggesting, quite sensibly, longer school hours and less holidays, and then teachers, as you would expect, throwing a hissy fit at the prospect of having to do a bit more work.

 

If Gove did a u-turn on the longer school hours and allowed teachers to keep their 9-3's with 18 weeks holiday you can be sure all this other ultra-vague crap about "inconsistant messages" would disappear before you could say 'but wait, why exactly do teachers deserve a third of the year off anyway'.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Is he trying to run it like a business? I'll be the first to admit I don't know the finer details of this story. All I see is Gove suggesting, quite sensibly, longer school hours and less holidays, and then teachers, as you would expect, throwing a hissy fit at the prospect of having to do a bit more work.

 

If Gove did a u-turn on the longer school hours and allowed teachers to keep their 9-3's with 18 weeks holiday you can be sure all this other ultra-vague crap about "inconsistant messages" would disappear before you could say 'but wait, why exactly do teachers deserve a third of the year off anyway'.

 

Aw bless, you think a teacher's job ends when the kids go home.

[lavrentis]

My school wasn't so bad but I got the feeling the system needs changing. There were lazy teachers just using paper based things which made noone connect with the subject. Even had a sexist geography teacher once who actually called me "lazy", when I genuinely tried my best. I used to do well in every other subject but this teacher hated me and most boys it seems. Got detention a few times for forgetting my textbook the ****ing ****. Old bat.

 

Seems like the NQT's are the best teachers though.