The Smiths

[Dr Marco]

[foxfanazer]

Had some jumped up 18 year old kid at work telling me how crap of musician Johnny Marr is and that he's rubbish live (he's never seen him live) because he plays the songs exactly how they are on his albums. Also said the bassist in Bloc Party is 10 times better than Marr. I mean I like Bloc Party but I was genuinely stunned

Edited 7 May 2020 by foxfanazer

[Bellend Sebastian]

On 07/05/2020 at 14:08, foxfanazer said:

Had some jumped up 18 year old kid at work telling me how crap of musician Johnny Marr is and that he's rubbish live (he's never seen him live) because he plays the songs exactly how they are on his albums. Also said the bassist in Bloc Party is 10 times better than Marr. I mean I like Bloc Party but I was genuinely stunned

He's no singer and can't write lyrics to save his life, but a crap musician? I'd have chuckled good naturedly in his face

[Pliskin]

I’ve met Marr, at university I went to a masterclass with him. What a man, and what a musician. He’s not to be confused with Mozza’s dour outlook on everything. Marr although sharing some of his views isn’t completely like Morrissey. He is a really down to earth bloke, and supremely talented when it comes to music. 
 

I was fortunate enough to sit with him on my own and have a discussion with him, we talked writing methods, his approach to guitar and his favourite styles and influences, and also football, he’s a huge Man City fan, and was a handy player in his youth (in his own admission). His ear is sensational, during the masterclass a few of the university’s bands played, he spotted the smallest of detail and the slight alterations he made made the world of difference.

 

His style is one I personally love, and some of his stuff isn’t easy to play, to play “Charming Man” properly you’ve got to be pretty proficient on the guitar. He told me that when he was growing up he was in a school full of prog rockers, punk guys and little in between, when he started his first band he had a crap amp and crap guitar, so he had to find ways of making it sound half decent, so he used to smash the reverb up and pick through the chords and pick out melody lines rather than playing riffs. His style is one you instantly recognise, and I think it largely made the smiths what they were. But the whole group was super talented, Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce had a phenomenally metronomic relationship, which was the vehicle for Marr’s playing, some of the bass work is amazing, and often gets overlooked. 
 

Morrissey, love him or hate him was a sensational lyricist, personally only Brett Anderson can pip him to top spot. The queen is dead remains one of my all time favourite tracks, lyrically it is hilarious!

 

Following my chat with Johnny he gave me a plectrum and agreed to sign my “meat is murder” CD sleeve, the pick he gave me was one he had just used whilst recording with the cribs, he had finished laying his guitar parts down the day prior to the masterclass. His parting words were “I don’t usually hand stuff out, but you don’t seem the sort to sell memorable on eBay, I ****ing hate that” and off he went. Top, top bloke! 

[Bellend Sebastian]

The second best musician Morrissey ever worked with, in my opinion, is Alain Whyte. He was his main song writer for 15 years but nobody has ever heard of him.

 

Again, not much of a lyricist but a good singer, but a lovely, natural guitar player who I'm surprised hasn't gone on to work with more artists than he has.

 

Here he is doing a solo version of 'Sunny' a Morrissey/Whyte composition and one of me favourites:

 

 

[SpacedX]

12 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

The second best musician Morrissey ever worked with, in my opinion, is Alain Whyte. He was his main song writer for 15 years but nobody has ever heard of him.

 

Again, not much of a lyricist but a good singer, but a lovely, natural guitar player who I'm surprised hasn't gone on to work with more artists than he has.

 

Here he is doing a solo version of 'Sunny' a Morrissey/Whyte composition and one of me favourites:

 

 

I have - and I very much agree...Alain White was the brains and musical impetus behind 'Your Arsenal' imo, the best Mozzer solo album. Add to which, it was produced by Mick Ronson,

 

Boz Boorer too. Long term collaborator. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

20 hours ago, Line-X said:

I have - and I very much agree...Alain White was the brains and musical impetus behind 'Your Arsenal' imo, the best Mozzer solo album. Add to which, it was produced by Mick Ronson,

 

Boz Boorer too. Long term collaborator. 

Well I'm very pleased I'm not the only one!

 

Your Arsenal is great, isn't it? Mick Ronson died a matter of months after it was completed and it's not often I say someone was taken too soon but he really was.

 

I'm sure Morrissey isn't the easiest of people to work with, but given Boz Boorer is nearly 30 years in he can't be THAT bad, surely?

 

My favourite Morrissey solo album is probably still Vauxhall and I, which I think was Steve Lillywhite produced. It's just so lush.

 

Mind you, I loved 'World Peace is None of Your Business' which, listening to a lot of supposed fans, you'd think was one of the worst records released by anyone, ever

[Bellend Sebastian]

For you, Line-X

 

 

[Fox92]

On ‎10‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 21:04, Pliskin said:

I’ve met Marr, at university I went to a masterclass with him. What a man, and what a musician. He’s not to be confused with Mozza’s dour outlook on everything. Marr although sharing some of his views isn’t completely like Morrissey. He is a really down to earth bloke, and supremely talented when it comes to music. 
 

I was fortunate enough to sit with him on my own and have a discussion with him, we talked writing methods, his approach to guitar and his favourite styles and influences, and also football, he’s a huge Man City fan, and was a handy player in his youth (in his own admission). His ear is sensational, during the masterclass a few of the university’s bands played, he spotted the smallest of detail and the slight alterations he made made the world of difference.

 

His style is one I personally love, and some of his stuff isn’t easy to play, to play “Charming Man” properly you’ve got to be pretty proficient on the guitar. He told me that when he was growing up he was in a school full of prog rockers, punk guys and little in between, when he started his first band he had a crap amp and crap guitar, so he had to find ways of making it sound half decent, so he used to smash the reverb up and pick through the chords and pick out melody lines rather than playing riffs. His style is one you instantly recognise, and I think it largely made the smiths what they were. But the whole group was super talented, Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce had a phenomenally metronomic relationship, which was the vehicle for Marr’s playing, some of the bass work is amazing, and often gets overlooked. 
 

Morrissey, love him or hate him was a sensational lyricist, personally only Brett Anderson can pip him to top spot. The queen is dead remains one of my all time favourite tracks, lyrically it is hilarious!

 

Following my chat with Johnny he gave me a plectrum and agreed to sign my “meat is murder” CD sleeve, the pick he gave me was one he had just used whilst recording with the cribs, he had finished laying his guitar parts down the day prior to the masterclass. His parting words were “I don’t usually hand stuff out, but you don’t seem the sort to sell memorable on eBay, I ****ing hate that” and off he went. Top, top bloke! 

I like Marr. One of my favourite artists. Seen him live about 5 times now as a solo artist, never disappointed. I always buy his studio albums and live albums when he puts them out.

 

I regret not meeting him when I lived in Manchester. It was when he did his debut album and was doing a meet and great at one of the record shops. I wasn't sure if I'd like his solo stuff then so didn't go and didn't buy the album initially. Saw him on the next album tour though, Playland, and that was the first time I saw him live.

 

Marr is probably the last great guitarist from the Country. The only other guitar player I've heard sound like Marr is John Squire from the Stone Roses.

 

I don't mind Morrissey's recent albums now and then, I thought Low In High School was decent, but I think Marr's albums are better. Morrissey's earlier stuff like Your Arsenal were so good. I think Morrissey is a good lyricist but I obviously don't rate him as high as you. For me he's nowhere near the level of Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Ray Davies and Paul Weller for starters.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

I like Marr. One of my favourite artists. Seen him live about 5 times now as a solo artist, never disappointed. I always buy his studio albums and live albums when he puts them out.

 

I regret not meeting him when I lived in Manchester. It was when he did his debut album and was doing a meet and great at one of the record shops. I wasn't sure if I'd like his solo stuff then so didn't go and didn't buy the album initially. Saw him on the next album tour though, Playland, and that was the first time I saw him live.

 

Marr is probably the last great guitarist from the Country. The only other guitar player I've heard sound like Marr is John Squire from the Stone Roses.

 

I don't mind Morrissey's recent albums now and then, I thought Low In High School was decent, but I think Marr's albums are better. Morrissey's earlier stuff like Your Arsenal were so good. I think Morrissey is a good lyricist but I obviously don't rate him as high as you. For me he's nowhere near the level of Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Ray Davies and Paul Weller for starters.

Marr is a genuine legend, without being groundbreaking he changed the way guitar was portrayed in the popular music world at the time. He played in the same era as Ritchie Sambora which just shows the different styles. Very unique and probably the backbone of the modern indie world. I’d argue Marr has probably had a more profound impact on modern guitar and music than some think, probably as impactful as the punk escapade. 
 

Morrissey is as marmite as they get. I think he’s a twat, and can’t expect how he enjoys life being so dour, miserable and cynical about everything. He is probably the only person in the world who would go out of his way to attend a garden centre just to rip into a Venus fly trap. He is however an outstanding lyricist, I think it’s more to do with the context of his lyrics, they’re clever, thorough and more of a paragraph from a university thesis than a song. He’s a bit like a drop out English literature student who shagged a hairy philosophy student, switched courses in an attempt to find himself, but ultimately dropped out because no one likes him. 

I mean “Your prejudices won’t keep you warm tonight”

 

****ing fantastic lyric, I think the best thing to do is listen to the songs and just put some context to them, he’s a very different sort of writer to those you mentioned who are fabulous in their own rights. 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Saw the Smyths (Smiths tribute act) last year at the O2 in Leicester, they were great and I recommend them to anyone who hasn't seen them before.

[goody2028]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

attend a garden centre just to rip into a Venus fly trap

Sounds like a line from one of his solo albums 

[Dr Marco]

[goody2028]

[foxfanazer]

1 hour ago, goody2028 said:

Which also lead to another discovery that some girl's mothers are bigger than other girl's mothers 

[SpacedX]

 

[Blueman1967]

On 22/05/2020 at 17:59, Leicester_Loyal said:

Saw the Smyths (Smiths tribute act) last year at the O2 in Leicester, they were great and I recommend them to anyone who hasn't seen them before.

I have seem them, and I agree

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

 

Love this one. Paints a good picture as to what the music industry is like.

[foxfanazer]

 

 

[RumbleFox]

They had some good tunes but just can’t get over the fact Morrissey is such a massive nobber. X 

[Blueman1967]

 

[foxfanazer]

 

 

Obsessed with this song at the moment. Gonna learn it on guitar as it sounds fairly easy

 

 

[Dr Marco]

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

On 08/02/2021 at 19:49, foxfanazer said:

 

 

Obsessed with this song at the moment. Gonna learn it on guitar as it sounds fairly easy

 

 

How you getting on with that? If you do a Google image search of 'I know it's over chords' the first page from one of the more modern (and reasonably accurate) chord songbooks comes up.

 

It's one of the better live versions on Rank, in my opinion. Morrissey's plaintive yowling really gets me towards the end

[foxfanazer]

2 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

How you getting on with that? If you do a Google image search of 'I know it's over chords' the first page from one of the more modern (and reasonably accurate) chord songbooks comes up.

 

It's one of the better live versions on Rank, in my opinion. Morrissey's plaintive yowling really gets me towards the end

Not started yet  bloody kids never give me the time to sit down. Thanks for the suggestion though I'll look it up