Enoch Powell - The Great Betrayal

[leicsmac]

It's a little more subtle than that.

Then how can it be qualified?

Sorry, that sounds like I'm playing dumb. I'm not, but at the same time a subtle approach doesn't constitute driven endorsement. Which shows in the Beeb being accused of all kinds of political bias in all directions over the years.

[Webbo]

Then how can it be qualified?

Sorry, that sounds like I'm playing dumb. I'm not, but at the same time a subtle approach doesn't constitute driven endorsement. Which shows in the Beeb being accused of all kinds of political bias in all directions over the years.

Portraying one party as evil and another as good and honest, blanket coverage of one party's problems and ignoring the others totally is far more effective than coming out and saying Vote for X. It makes people think that they've made the decision for them selves when in truth they've been guided down that route.

[Zingari]

Portraying one party as evil and another as good and honest, blanket coverage of one party's problems and ignoring the others totally is far more effective than coming out and saying Vote for X. It makes people think that they've made the decision for them selves when in truth they've been guided down that route.

Quite so , and everyone should ask themselves , who has the greatest access and means to achieve this.

Would it be those with the interest of the rich and privileged at heart , or those at the lower end  seeking to get a fairer share of the spoils.

[Captain...]

The economic arguments have been debated by both sides and no one can come to a complete conclusion on if it would benefit or not.

That said, I'll be voting to come out on issues of sovereignty regardless, I find it unnacceptable that control of our borders and certain laws can be decided by people of whom some have never even set foot in this country let alone been voted for by the people of it.

On the first point, this is the problem that it is being debated by both sides, it is pretty sad their can't actually be an unbiased informed discussion on the business benefits of the eu. Business and economic benefits should be clear to measure and there should be fairly clear benefits and consequences of leaving the eu. The fact we can never get to them because of political posturing annoys me.

As for the second point, that is a poor reason to vote out, everyday we are affected by political decisions that have no clue on how our life is. I doubt very many of the cabinet have been to Leicester or care to, and neither should they. They base policy on what they think is best for the country as a whole, as do the EU with regards Europe. It just seems petty, the decision should be made on what rules they are putting in place and not who has made them.

[leicsmac]

Portraying one party as evil and another as good and honest, blanket coverage of one party's problems and ignoring the others totally is far more effective than coming out and saying Vote for X. It makes people think that they've made the decision for them selves when in truth they've been guided down that route.

And most of the time the Murdoch media does exactly that, saving the Vote for X for election time. But the endorsement I think is important - it's the cherry on top that gets people to the polling station, as it were.

I'm not saying the Beeb isn't biased, but I'm saying that there is ambiguity in its political leanings through the years and it is accountable to the British public in a way Murdoch is not. I definitely think its job should just be to report and inform though, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

(Anyhow, this has been an engaging debate as always, but it's nearly 3am here so I really need to get my head down. Cheers guys!)

[21st Century Fox]

Portraying one party as evil and another as good and honest, blanket coverage of one party's problems and ignoring the others totally is far more effective than coming out and saying Vote for X. It makes people think that they've made the decision for them selves when in truth they've been guided down that route.

 

The BBC, who's Political News Editor was President of the Oxford University Conservative Association and national chairman of the Young Conservatives.

[Webbo]

The BBC, who's Political News Editor was President of the Oxford University Conservative Association and national chairman of the Young Conservatives.

[21st Century Fox]

 

The BBC, who's Political News Editor was President of the Oxford University Conservative Association and national chairman of the Young Conservatives.

 

 

and he still gets accusations of tory bias. There seems to be paranoia from both sides regarding the BBC's impartiality.

[Bellend Sebastian]

For a start "ill informed choices" in your opinion, just because you disagree doesn't make them wrong.

 

Secondly 80% of the population get their news from the BBC, the influence of people like Murdoch are vastly overstated.

 

Well I think the politicians still think the media barons are pretty influential.  You'd struggle to convince me that Gordon Brown had Paul Dacre along to family occasions because they were top mates, and similarly I doubt that Rebekah Brooks and David Cameron went horse riding together purely for a love of all things equine (although it could be they met through Ross Kemp of course).

 

In other news, which seems to have been overlooked nearly everywhere, as was the intention:

 

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/11/01/sun-admits-its-600000-benefit-tourists-story-was-false

 

I don't think many people would argue that there are no issues around immigration but at least make the effort to write about some actual ones

[Webbo]

Mark Thompson, former DG of the BBC;

 

"In the BBC I joined 30 years ago [as a production trainee, in 1979], there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left. The organisation did struggle then with impartiality. And journalistically, staff were quite mystified by the early years of Thatcher.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/09/lecture-thompson-bbc-interview

[Zingari]

Presumably the "was" implies that  Robinson is no longer at Oxford University , not that he has changed his political persuasion 

[ADK]

Personally I think the BBC is hands down the most liberal and best international news channel out there. You will always get slight bias because of the human element but I've never had the impression that the BBC is leftist or right leaning.

[Guest MattP]

The BBC, who's Political News Editor was President of the Oxford University Conservative Association and national chairman of the Young Conservatives.

 

And Medhi Hasan applied for a job at the Daily Mail, I'm sure in his current role he can't remove the culture of the organisation.

 

Many commentators have said the BBC is full of these middle class, metropolitan mindset left leaning types over the years who have the arrogance to see themselves as speaking for the working class whilst earning a six figure sum living in a market town in Berkshire.

[Guest MattP]

Personally I think the BBC is hands down the most liberal and best international news channel out there. You will always get slight bias because of the human element but I've never had the impression that the BBC is leftist or right leaning.

 

Just watch Question Time.

 

5 panelists every week, always 3 left leaning, 2 right leaning.

 

Even when they go to places like Cambridge and Oxford they manage to find an audience full of Trade Unionists.

[Zingari]

Personally I think the BBC is hands down the most liberal and best international news channel out there. You will always get slight bias because of the human element but I've never had the impression that the BBC is leftist or right leaning.

yes it's probably about as good as we could hope for really. but i did hear that in any time of crisis , the govt can take control of it and pretty much say what it likes . Sort of like a stand-by propaganda machine 

[Webbo]

Well I think the politicians still think the media barons are pretty influential.  You'd struggle to convince me that Gordon Brown had Paul Dacre along to family occasions because they were top mates, and similarly I doubt that Rebekah Brooks and David Cameron went horse riding together purely for a love of all things equine (although it could be they met through Ross Kemp of course).

 

In other news, which seems to have been overlooked nearly everywhere, as was the intention:

 

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/11/01/sun-admits-its-600000-benefit-tourists-story-was-false

 

I don't think many people would argue that there are no issues around immigration but at least make the effort to write about some actual ones

When a few hundred votes spread over 10 or 15 constituencies can mean the difference between and losing an election you're obviously going to try to get as many votes as you can any way you can.

 

 I know Labour voters who read the Mail and a Tory voters who read the Mirror. Just because you read a certain paper doesn't mean you believe/agree with everything in it.

[21st Century Fox]

And Medhi Hasan applied for a job at the Daily Mail, I'm sure in his current role he can't remove the culture of the organisation.

 

Many commentators have said the BBC is full of these middle class, metropolitan mindset left leaning types over the years who have the arrogance to see themselves as speaking for the working class whilst earning a six figure sum living in a market town in Berkshire.

 

The point was that it clearly isn't "full of these middle class, metropolitan mindset left leaning types" as the Political Editor of BBC News has a fairly strong right-leaning political background for a journalist. I personally don't think that makes his journalism bias but it shows that they have people in the upper echelons of the corporation from across the political spectrum.

 

Having not watched the news 30 years ago I can't really comment on the Mark Thompson quote but I fail to see the bias today. It seems fairly even, what with both sides complaining, it all seems like general paranoia you'd expect when having a impartial news provider.

[Guest MattP]

 I know Labour voters who read the Mail and a Tory voters who read the Mirror. Just because you read a certain paper doesn't mean you believe/agree with everything in it.

 

The guy in our pub who is always shouting about "pak*s" etc every Friday is a Liberal Democrat voter, beat that.

[johnny the fox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB1E0oAAc-w

[lavrentis]

Just watch Question Time.

 

5 panelists every week, always 3 left leaning, 2 right leaning.

 

Even when they go to places like Cambridge and Oxford they manage to find an audience full of Trade Unionists.

 

Applied to go on QT as its near where I'm originally from in Lincolnshire.

 

They asked what party I support and unsurprisingly, I never heard anything back.

[Guest MattP]

Applied to go on QT as its near where I'm originally from in Lincolnshire.

 

They asked what party I support and unsurprisingly, I never heard anything back.

 

Did exactly the same, I'll put Labour next time.

[sphericalfox]

Did exactly the same, I'll put Labour next time.

will you wear your nazi uniform?

[Guest MattP]

will you wear your nazi uniform?

 

I'll just grow my tash a couple more inches and replace my swastika with a hammer and sickle.

[ADK]

The guy in our pub who is always shouting about "pak*s" etc every Friday is a Liberal Democrat voter, beat that.

 

Does he still vote for them?

 

There were an awful lot of protest voters voting Lib Dem last time out who clearly had no idea what a liberal is or what the party actually stood for.

[lavrentis]

Does he still vote for them?

 

There were an awful lot of protest voters voting Lib Dem last time out who clearly had no idea what a liberal is or what the party actually stood for.

 

Hang on a sec, The Lib Dems stand for something?