Webbo Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Why does that matter? Either way someone will come over and get the job done. Either way you're going to be inconvenienced but then someone will come along and sort it out. Also, Webbo, where on earth do you shop where it never takes less than 5 minutes for someone else to come over?! In the Tesco Express near me, there's always someone available within a minute to sort the issue out. As long as they're not sorting someone elses problem out. It's poor service and paying customers are entitled to be annoyed about it.
The Doctor Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Why does that matter? Either way someone will come over and get the job done. Either way you're going to be inconvenienced but then someone will come along and sort it out. Also, Webbo, where on earth do you shop where it never takes less than 5 minutes for someone else to come over?! In the Tesco Express near me, there's always someone available within a minute to sort the issue out. Simply enough because technical issues are no-ones fault and avoidable, but an employee should be expected to do his job, not inconvenience the customer by refusing to do it. Frankly, in any other scenario refusal to do your job would be met with disciplinary action, and I fail to see why it should be any different here.
StanSP Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Simply enough because technical issues are no-ones fault and avoidable, but an employee should be expected to do his job, not inconvenience the customer by refusing to do it. Frankly, in any other scenario refusal to do your job would be met with disciplinary action, and I fail to see why it should be any different here. Because in this scenario it's something that M&S have organised. So they'd just be going against their own rules if they took disciplinary action...? As long as they're not sorting someone elses problem out. It's poor service and paying customers are entitled to be annoyed about it. So when they're sorting out someone else's problem, that's still poor service? Just because you have to wait a little longer, it's poor service? Is it not good service that they're helping someone else in their problem?
Jimothy Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Why does that matter? Either way someone will come over and get the job done. Either way you're going to be inconvenienced but then someone will come along and sort it out. Also, Webbo, where on earth do you shop where it never takes less than 5 minutes for someone else to come over?! In the Tesco Express near me, there's always someone available within a minute to sort the issue out. Because one is technical issue which can't be helped the other is a persons choice. One situation they apologies because the equipment is faulty, in the other they apologies because the person paid the serve you your product has chosen to judge you based on their own beleifs and is in a way saying they expect you to live like they do and your way of living is wrong, and therefore not do their job. If I can't pay the staff wages at work because the systems are down that's unfortunate, if I can't pay them because I turn up pissed, or I suddenly decide I can't be arsed, that's not unfortunate, that's my choice and it's not fair on the people I'm working for. It's exactly the same thing.
Webbo Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 So when they're sorting out someone else's problem, that's still poor service? Just because you have to wait a little longer, it's poor service? Is it not good service that they're helping someone else in their problem? Yes. What is so hard to understand about this? I'm standing around twiddling my thumbs but because someone else is being served it doesn't matter?
StanSP Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Because one is technical issue which can't be helped the other is a persons choice. One situation they apologies because the equipment is faulty, in the other they apologies because the person paid the serve you your product has chosen to judge you based on their own beleifs and is in a way saying they expect you to live like they do and your way of living is wrong, and therefore not do their job. If I can't pay the staff wages at work because the systems are down that's unfortunate, if I can't pay them because I turn up pissed, or I suddenly decide I can't be arsed, that's not unfortunate, that's my choice and it's not fair on the people I'm working for. It's exactly the same thing. Woahh. What? They aren't forbidding you to buy it!! They just choose not to sell you it! They're not putting signs up saying don't buy this product!!
StanSP Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Yes. What is so hard to understand about this? I'm standing around twiddling my thumbs but because someone else is being served it doesn't matter? 2 people have an issue. You are one of them. The other person had a problem first. The assistant goes to them first. What's so hard to understand that you may have to be a little bit patient while they tend to someone else and then they come to you?!
Webbo Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 2 people have an issue. You are one of them. The other person had a problem first. The assistant goes to them first. What's so hard to understand that you may have to be a little bit patient while they tend to someone else and then they come to you? If you don't get it then there's no point arguing.
Jimothy Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Woahh. What? They aren't forbidding you to buy it!! They just choose not to sell you it! They're not putting signs up saying don't buy this product!! Well they are because they are saying they won't sell me a product, because they believe that product is wrong, and are relying on somebody else to do their job. By refusing to sell me a product because they believe it's wrong, they are telling me they don't agree with me life choices and I should live my life their way. That's not right. I wouldn't refuse to stock halal meat if I ran a shop, even if I disagreed with it, people want it, it's legal, it's their choice.
Jon the Hat Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 Those under 18 employees are as bad. Make me wait you bastards? We should ban them all from employment.
StanSP Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 If you don't get it then there's no point arguing. I get you're pissed off that you have to wait in a supermarket. I get that you feel inconvenienced sometimes. That's life. Sorry. Well they are because they are saying they won't sell me a product, because they believe that product is wrong, and are relying on somebody else to do their job. By refusing to sell me a product because they believe it's wrong, they are telling me they don't agree with me life choices and I should live my life their way. That's not right. I wouldn't refuse to stock halal meat if I ran a shop, even if I disagreed with it, people want it, it's legal, it's their choice. They're not stopping you from buying it. You're reading too much in to it and taking too much offence from it if you think they are forcing you live their way. It's their choice they don't want to drink alcohol or eat pork. They are not forcing you to stop consuming it by refusing to sell it to you. Them not selling you a product is not the equivalent of forcing you to quit eating/drinking it. If they tell you to go to another counter, you won't find them there stopping you from buying it.
Matt Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 I get you're pissed off that you have to wait in a supermarket. I get that you feel inconvenienced sometimes. That's life. Sorry. They're not stopping you from buying it. You're reading too much in to it and taking too much offence from it if you think they are forcing you live their way. It's their choice they don't want to drink alcohol or eat pork. They are not forcing you to stop consuming it by refusing to sell it to you. Them not selling you a product is not the equivalent of forcing you to quit eating/drinking it. If they tell you to go to another counter, you won't find them there stopping you from buying it. In the same instance people who are buying pork or alcohol aren't forcing Muslims to live any other way either, they don't have consume pork or drink alcohol they just have to pass it through a scanner. It's in packaging, so they don't have to literally touch it, they don't have eat it. I don't get it. In short what I am saying is the opposite to you, both points are valid, but where's the middle ground? The middle ground is not offending people who could potentially play the racism card I think.
StanSP Posted 23 December 2013 Posted 23 December 2013 In the same instance people who are buying pork or alcohol aren't forcing Muslims to live any other way either, they don't have consume pork or drink alcohol they just have to pass it through a scanner. It's in packaging, so they don't have to literally touch it, they don't have eat it. I don't get it. In short what I am saying is the opposite to you, both points are valid, but where's the middle ground? I agree but I don't know .
Jimothy Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 I get you're pissed off that you have to wait in a supermarket. I get that you feel inconvenienced sometimes. That's life. Sorry. They're not stopping you from buying it. You're reading too much in to it and taking too much offence from it if you think they are forcing you live their way. It's their choice they don't want to drink alcohol or eat pork. They are not forcing you to stop consuming it by refusing to sell it to you. Them not selling you a product is not the equivalent of forcing you to quit eating/drinking it. If they tell you to go to another counter, you won't find them there stopping you from buying it. But they are stopping me from buying it, because they are refusing to sell it to me. Ok somebody will come in a do the job for them, but that's not the point, if they had it their way I wouldn't be leaving the shop with me beer and bacon. Even though the words won't be uttered at the till, they might as well be saying, "I'm sorry sir, I don't consume those products because of my religious beliefs and because I think my religious belief make me better than you, I also think you shouldn't consume these either and should be like me" It's not even like they don't eat pork because the pigs sacred, it's not like they are selling me the dead carcass of a god, they don't eat it because they think pigs are dirty. They won't sell it me because they don't think I should have it, and that is the equivalent of forcing me not to eat it. If it was they're own shop fair enough, but they have been employed by somebody else to sell they're products, so it's tough shit if they don't like the products. What next devout Christians asking for a marriage certificate in tesco before selling you condoms? Or even Catholics refusing to sell them to you at all?
StanSP Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 But they are stopping me from buying it, because they are refusing to sell it to me. Ok somebody will come in a do the job for them, but that's not the point, if they had it their way I wouldn't be leaving the shop with me beer and bacon. Even though the words won't be uttered at the till, they might as well be saying, "I'm sorry sir, I don't consume those products because of my religious beliefs and because I think my religious belief make me better than you, I also think you shouldn't consume these either and should be like me" It's not even like they don't eat pork because the pigs sacred, it's not like they are selling me the dead carcass of a god, they don't eat it because they think pigs are dirty. They won't sell it me because they don't think I should have it, and that is the equivalent of forcing me not to eat it. If it was they're own shop fair enough, but they have been employed by somebody else to sell they're products, so it's tough shit if they don't like the products. What next devout Christians asking for a marriage certificate in tesco before selling you condoms? Or even Catholics refusing to sell them to you at all? Where are you even getting that from? I think you're making an implication there and assuming that's what they believe. Especially in this M&S scenario, that's way off the mark. No-one has mentioned about being better than someone else. No-one has mentioned anything about Muslims thinking others should be like them in the sense that customers should be forbidden to eating pork/drinking alcohol. Where has anyone even said they don't think the consumer should be able to eat it? If they tell you that you can complete the transaction at another till, surely that negates your point and tells you they don't mind you eating it? But then you just go on about what they may think as if you can read their minds even though you acknowledge they haven't said anything of the sort
Jimothy Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 Where are you even getting that from? I think you're making an implication there and assuming that's what they believe. Especially in this M&S scenario, that's way off the mark. No-one has mentioned about being better than someone else. No-one has mentioned anything about Muslims thinking others should be like them in the sense that customers should be forbidden to eating pork/drinking alcohol. Where has anyone even said they don't think the consumer should be able to eat it? If they tell you that you can complete the transaction at another till, surely that negates your point and tells you they don't mind you eating it? But then you just go on about what they may think as if you can read their minds even though you acknowledge they haven't said anything of the sort So if they're not refusing to sell it to me and don't believe I should eat it, why won't they serve me?
StanSP Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 And surely the point is that someone can do the job for them - the case is simply they don't want to be involved in the selling of it. Not that you can't buy it all. Like I said earlier, they're not stopping you from going to another counter and buying your products. If that was the case in this scenario, I'd have no choice but to agree with you. But nothing of the sort has happened.
Lamby Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 I say ban religion, it's all bollocks anyway. Would stop things like this.
StanSP Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 So if they're not refusing to sell it to me and don't believe I should eat it, why won't they serve me? Ask them. I don't know the mind of a Muslim. All I'm going off is what I know from what I've learnt about Islam. Even if they believe you shouldn't eat it, you shouldn't let them dictate your life. You can make your own choices surely? You could eat the bacon and drink the alcohol in their faces if you want and they couldn't do anything about it!
StanSP Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 --- Anyway, I'm going to bed. My brain is tired, up early for work and my birthday is tomorrow. I don't want this to be the highlight of my day and I don't think we're getting anywhere fast. I'm happy to call it a day and probably won't post in here again!
Jimothy Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 And surely the point is that someone can do the job for them - the case is simply they don't want to be involved in the selling of it. Not that you can't buy it all. Like I said earlier, they're not stopping you from going to another counter and buying your products. If that was the case in this scenario, I'd have no choice but to agree with you. But nothing of the sort has happened. Well if they don't want to involved in the selling of it, don't work in a store that makes huge profits from the selling if it. If I've got a shopping trolley full of food and they are happy to scan everything but the booze and pork, they are pretty much telling me they think I should adhere to their religious following. I wouldn't expect a catholic to refuse to serve me when buying condoms, same as u wouldn't expect an atheist bookshop worker to stop someone buying a bible. It's not about what the shop worker wants or believes, they are there to take your money for the products you want, providing you're legally allowed to buy them. Unless I'm under 18 or I'm threatening to pour a bottle of vodka down their neck once I've paid for it, it's not really up to them what I do or do not purchase through their till.
Merging Cultures Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 It is very simple, if they are unwilling to do the job they should not be on the till or assigned to the food section. Put them in the clothing section. I agree there is an air of superiority complex to it all. They are not consuming the product, not even touching it, so what is the problem? To me it seems that they are saying this product is prohibited for their consumption and therefore they don't think we should be consuming it either. Which is fine for them to believe, but then they shouldn't work in a place that sells the products if the are unwilling to let others consume the product. I don't smoke because personally I think it's disgusting and I believe the marketing that smoking causes cancer. Morally I object to smoking because the health issues cost the economy a fortune and damage family units. However, I would not have a problem selling it to adults. It is their choice and these days people (in western countries) are well aware of the risks and the tax revenue is significant. Eventually we will end up in a society that caters to the lowest common denominator. Everything will be bubble wrapped to prevent injury, everything will be halal/kosher/vegetarian, and choices will be taken away.
Matt Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 I say ban religion, it's all bollocks anyway. Would stop things like this. Yes! Well done, this doesn't happen often but I bloody agree with you. In alot of these type of threads I bring this out and i'm going to again, Religion is the root of all evil. Perhaps not all, certainly a hell of alot though.
cambridgefox Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 My mate works at Jewsons,he is refusing to sell nails and wood! Should be in the joke section,but trying to lighten the mood and it is a joke about my religion . On a more serious note you could go around in circles on this one.See both sides,I haven't read it all but do you not think the way around it would be to have a large sign on the tills saying" no pork or Alcohol at this till"when a Muslim employee is serving who feels strongly about it.problem solved.no waiting,everyone is happy.
Webbo Posted 24 December 2013 Posted 24 December 2013 My mate works at Jewsons,he is refusing to sell nails and wood There's no need to get cross.
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