Alf Bentley Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 If hes got mental issues fine...why the fook was he in a normal school?? If he needs mental health help then give it to him...and people like you can pay out of YOUR taxes not my fooking tax!!! someone mentalli ill wouldnt even think its righta bout doing what he did. Imagine our Bernie who we all know isnt all there stabbing a fellow fan in the neck? Like fox said these sort of people are just sick fooks and will never change Why do we always have to define people like this? The amount of times in this thread I've read "mentally ill". Why not just say he's a sick ba**ard? That's what I see him as. Unlike genetic disabilities, such as Down's Syndrome, which are present from birth, mental illnesses generally appear later: e.g. most cases of schizophrenia appear in late teens or early 20s, personality disorders commonly appear in adolescence. This lad was in a normal school because he was normal - and then he obviously became very mentally disturbed. An "adjustment disorder and psychopathic tendencies", the expert assessors called it, I think. He became dangerously and irrationally angry and violent with little or no empathy, but with a fairly calm exterior. You're right that most people who become mentally ill do not become aggressive or dangerous, Raj. In the last 20 years, I've known at least 6 people who've suffered serious mental illnesses (schizophrenia-type illnesses, mainly, plus one with a personality disorder). None of them have ever been violent. At worst, there's been some risk of harm to others through an accident, but mainly they've just been a danger to themselves while ill - and all but one of them have now been well for years, working, in relationships etc. Unfortunately, a small minority of people do become dangerous through mental illness. Society obviously needs to be protected from them, but abusing - or even killing - them isn't right. Most people would rightly find it shocking if they heard a cancer patient or someone with Down's Syndrome described as a "sick fook" or a "sick bastard" or heard people saying that their treatment shouldn't be funded from general taxation. This is an extreme case. This lad may never change, in which case he should remain in secure custody, but medication/therapy allows many people to recover from mental illness - and this lad deserves that chance, however horrible the crime he's committed and even if it's likely to take a very long time.
DB11 Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 All these people he told he was going to do it... why did not one raise awareness or speak to a teacher at school?
Webbo Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 According to the radio today the court appointed psychologists couldn't find any evidence that he was mentally ill.
Webbo Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 All these people he told he was going to do it... why did not one raise awareness or speak to a teacher at school? If a kid at school had said anything like that to you would you have believed them? I'd have just assumed he was full of shit.
Leeds Fox Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 According to the radio today the court appointed psychologists couldn't find any evidence that he was mentally ill. This is a strange one, but if he isn't 'technically' mentally ill, yet apparently shows no remorse for what he did and did it in a state of sound mind. Wouldn't that indicate a serious issue with his mental state or is that just classed as something? Say, evil?!
Trav Le Bleu Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 Lots of people saying that he shouldn't be named for various reasons, but I've not heard the one single reason why he shouldn't be named mentioned and that is because he's probably loving the notoriety. Let him rot in anonymity.
Webbo Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 Lots of people saying that he shouldn't be named for various reasons, but I've not heard the one single reason why he shouldn't be named mentioned and that is because he's probably loving the notoriety. Let him rot in anonymity. He's been named.
Vardinhio Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 Criminally responsible as above the age of ten and fairplay for the courts for handing out a decent sentence. My view is he should never be released.
Strokes Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 Not to mention that it would make us members of an exclusive club of nations that execute children. As we keep using the expensive US system as a yardstick, by the time he would be executed he would no longer be considered a child.
Alf Bentley Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 According to the radio today the court appointed psychologists couldn't find any evidence that he was mentally ill. Seems to be the subtle distinction between a "mental illness" and a "mental disorder". He's deemed to have developed a severe "personality disorder" with "marked psychopathic traits". I presume this is deemed a "disorder" and not an "illness" as personality is continuous, if not permanent (it may change over time). In contrast, "mental illness" is mostly temporary, if sometimes recurring. Someone may have a permanent propensity to become mentally ill, but they're often well for long periods - or may become well again permanently. If you read pp. 6-9 of the sentencing remarks that Marko posted (http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/r-v-cornick.pdf), it's clear that something inexplicably went very wrong with the lad's mind over the previous couple of years, without it being obvious enough to raise alarm bells. There is no suggestion that he was suffering psychotic delusions (irrational thoughts), as would normally be the case for someone who was mentally ill. His personality just inexplicably went way beyond the boundaries of what we consider a normal range. He was in what had become "his normal state of mind". Whatever form of words is used, and whatever caused this awful shift in his personality (brain chemistry? brain development during adolescence?), something clearly went very wrong inside his head. Unless the investigation has missed something, there doesn't seem to be any suggestion that the shift was caused by external factors. If his personality remains as it has become, you'd have to assume/hope that he'll never be released. If a kid at school had said anything like that to you would you have believed them? I'd have just assumed he was full of shit. Exactly! Before the murder, the worst thing that he seems to have actually done was to get in an angry argument with Mrs. Maguire and get an internal suspension. How many teenagers get in an argument with a teacher or tell their classmates that they're going to kill them....quite a lot, I'd guess. I can remember a lad bringing a knife into school and telling how he'd captured and killed a cat. He even wrote an English essay about it and got to read it out in class. Maybe he really did the deed, but most of us - including the English teacher - assumed that he was being a bit "creative" with his imagination.
Webbo Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 The death sentence is such a grey area I don't how anyone can be certain 1 way or the other. I tend to be against it but if it could be proved that it would lead to less murders would it be right to rule it out?
Buce Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 As we keep using the expensive US system as a yardstick, by the time he would be executed he would no longer be considered a child. He was a child when the crime was committed.
Buce Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 The death sentence is such a grey area I don't how anyone can be certain 1 way or the other. I tend to be against it but if it could be proved that it would lead to less murders would it be right to rule it out? As we used to have the death penalty for murder, statistics would show an increase in the murder rate since it was abolished: I'm sure the 'pro' lobby would be quick to quote such statistics, if they exist, which implies that they don't.
ADK Posted 4 November 2014 Posted 4 November 2014 Seems a bit like a combination of depression and a personality disorder. We only get snippets of the medical reports though.
leicsmac Posted 5 November 2014 Posted 5 November 2014 According to the radio today the court appointed psychologists couldn't find any evidence that he was mentally ill. Of course they couldn't, that's not their job. Their job is to prove that he's perfectly sane to aid with a conviction. Whatever the truth of the matter is doesn't come into it.
leicsmac Posted 5 November 2014 Posted 5 November 2014 As for the time-old death penalty debate, once again there is one pragmatic and incontrovertible argument against it. You can let a person out of jail. You can't bring them back to life. Absolute punishments require absolute proof both of guilt and sane mental state. With our present justice and investigation system we can possibly get one, but certainly not both.
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