St Ledger to leave. Confirms he hasn't been offered new deal on Twitter

[Guest MattP]

Do some people really think the manager isn't asked if he feels a player deserves x amount of money?

Of course they do and would have input, it's absolutely absurd to claim they wouldn't.

[jamesmilner]

Do some people really think the manager isn't asked if he feels a player deserves x amount of money?

Of course they do and would have input, it's absolutely absurd to claim they wouldn't.

 

managers have nothing to do with wages .they manage a football team not pay them . just like in a normal work environment .my manager didn't tell my employers how much he thought I was worth, he would ve been told it isn't his job to do that as it wasn't svens . Andrew Neville wrote the contracts and negotiated with players agents wages etc , that's just how it was .he would've taken advice but not from sven . I don't think that , I know it .

[jamesmilner]

Lee Hoos left lcfc in may 2011 , was it him that did any tranfers etc ?, I do know Neville stepped in his shoes and made that much of a mess, they brought in Susan Whelan . followed by robinson and sir david Richards . work it out for yourself on that score .

[Guest MattP]

managers have nothing to do with wages .they manage a football team not pay them . just like in a normal work environment .my manager didn't tell my employers how much he thought I was worth, he would ve been told it isn't his job to do that as it wasn't svens . Andrew Neville wrote the contracts and negotiated with players agents wages etc , that's just how it was .he would've taken advice but not from sven . I don't think that , I know it .

Of course a manager would know and have a say on how much his staff are on! That would happen in virtually every business in the land with a hierarchy in.

If people really don't think Andrew Neville would have had a chat with the manager about the worth of Paul Gallagher when his agent asked for a new deal they are either mad or we must of been the most unprofessionally ran business in the land.

Of course the business and football side of the club would be in constant communication, it would be shambolic if it wasn't, if Neil Danns had asked for a new contract last year he wouldn't have got one as Nige I'm sure would have made sure Neville knew he didn't want him at the club.

[sphericalfox]

managers have nothing to do with wages .they manage a football team not pay them . just like in a normal work environment .my manager didn't tell my employers how much he thought I was worth, he would ve been told it isn't his job to do that as it wasn't svens . Andrew Neville wrote the contracts and negotiated with players agents wages etc , that's just how it was .he would've taken advice but not from sven . I don't think that , I know it .

 

Noooooooo, SVEN is blame, don't ruin the mirage!!!

[indierich06]

managers have nothing to do with wages .they manage a football team not pay them . just like in a normal work environment .my manager didn't tell my employers how much he thought I was worth, he would ve been told it isn't his job to do that as it wasn't svens . Andrew Neville wrote the contracts and negotiated with players agents wages etc , that's just how it was .he would've taken advice but not from sven . I don't think that , I know it .

From who then? I can't wait to hear this. Honestly, who is better qualified than the manager, who oversees the entire footballing side of the club, to give advice on how much a player is worth in terms of transfer fees, or wages, or in terms of a new contract? Of course the manager is involved! I'm not saying that the manager says 'pay him x amount', but they will almost certainly advise and consult with the money men on how much to pay a certain player as they have a much, much better idea of value than some suit in the boardroom. How does someone like Andrew Neville decide what someone like Riyad Mahrez is worth? Or Aleksander Tunchev? These are players he's probably never even heard of before the manager suggests them. Who has more idea of their value? The bloke who probably has to Google them to find out who they are, or the manager whose scouting team have been watching the player for months? How does someone like Andrew Neville have enough knowledge of the changing room mood to know if a big money signing will damage morale? He doesn't. The manager does.

And if the manager plays no role whatsoever in how much we pay for players, or what contracts they are given, how on earth do you explain the seismic shift in financial policy that happened almost immediately after Sven left and Pearson rejoined? Why did we suddenly go from paying astronomical amounts for average players to making considered, value-for-money signings? Do you honestly think it's just a coincidence that when we had a manager renowned for spending absolute fortunes in charge we spent an absolute fortune, yet when a frugal, careful manager comes in we adopt a frugal, careful financial policy?

There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[Soar Fox]

Nobody should believe the rubbish that Jamesmillner writes on here.

Remember a year or so back the rubbish he was coming out with about our academy getting category 1 status. Trying to tell Ramadone he was wrong and didn't know what he was on about.

[Mark_w]

Nobody should believe the rubbish that Jamesmillner writes on here.

Remember a year or so back the rubbish he was coming out with about our academy getting category 1 status. Trying to tell Ramadone he was wrong and didn't know what he was on about.

Every post he makes is clearly bollocks, I'd be amazed if anyone takes him seriously.

[Babylon]

Would you expect the managers to really know what potential signings are earning and what they wish to earn?

Yes I would, but I wouldn't expect them to admit it to his players or anyone else. It's been freely admitted by lots of ex pros that big differences in wages can cause resentment around a club, so a manager should be interested in having a rough idea of what players earn. Would I expect him to know every detail, clearly not.

It's also just bloody common sense to keep on eye on what's being spent, especially if you have a budget (which I presume most do). If you have £5m to spend and some plonker in the office spunks your whole £5m on one player when you wanted three players you aren't going to be very happy.

There should be collective blame from top to bottom with regards the spending under Sven.

[Babylon]

From who then? I can't wait to hear this. Honestly, who is better qualified than the manager, who oversees the entire footballing side of the club, to give advice on how much a player is worth in terms of transfer fees, or wages, or in terms of a new contract? Of course the manager is involved! I'm not saying that the manager says 'pay him x amount', but they will almost certainly advise and consult with the money men on how much to pay a certain player as they have a much, much better idea of value than some suit in the boardroom. How does someone like Andrew Neville decide what someone like Riyad Mahrez is worth? Or Aleksander Tunchev? These are players he's probably never even heard of before the manager suggests them. Who has more idea of their value? The bloke who probably has to Google them to find out who they are, or the manager whose scouting team have been watching the player for months? How does someone like Andrew Neville have enough knowledge of the changing room mood to know if a big money signing will damage morale? He doesn't. The manager does.

And if the manager plays no role whatsoever in how much we pay for players, or what contracts they are given, how on earth do you explain the seismic shift in financial policy that happened almost immediately after Sven left and Pearson rejoined? Why did we suddenly go from paying astronomical amounts for average players to making considered, value-for-money signings? Do you honestly think it's just a coincidence that when we had a manager renowned for spending absolute fortunes in charge we spent an absolute fortune, yet when a frugal, careful manager comes in we adopt a frugal, careful financial policy?

There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

This sentence from Pearson clearly shows they think about costs.

Foxes boss Pearson revealed: “You look at Cornelius who went to Cardiff, I think they paid £8million for him.

“We had been following his progress for a long period of time.

“With all due respect we were thinking maybe £500,000 might be the type of price that would be a good investment for him.

[Danno]

Nobody should believe the rubbish that Jamesmillner writes on here.

Remember a year or so back the rubbish he was coming out with about our academy getting category 1 status. Trying to tell Ramadone he was wrong and didn't know what he was on about.

I don't know why anyone would take someone who doesn't even know where a full stop goes seriously.

[kingcarr21]

I don't know why anyone would take someone who doesn't even know where a full stop goes seriously.

i'd.not. noticed. that. How.fvcking.annoying...........................................

[Guest Col city fan]

Yes I would, but I wouldn't expect them to admit it to his players or anyone else. It's been freely admitted by lots of ex pros that big differences in wages can cause resentment around a club, so a manager should be interested in having a rough idea of what players earn. Would I expect him to know every detail, clearly not.

It's also just bloody common sense to keep on eye on what's being spent, especially if you have a budget (which I presume most do). If you have £5m to spend and some plonker in the office spunks your whole £5m on one player when you wanted three players you aren't going to be very happy.

There should be collective blame from top to bottom with regards the spending under Sven.

Again... as far as I know, managers do not get involved in contract negotiations. Top flight teams have staff experienced in this stuff. The manager identifies a potential signing and then the financial stuff is left to the money men.

I'm pretty sure that Sven may have commented on what he thought a player was worth, in terms of a transfer fee. And may have mentioned wages. But then it is left to the negotiators to negotiate.

This happens a lot in bigger, private sector companies, not only football.

Finally, (and I don't KNOW this), I'd be pretty surprised if some confidentiality clause isn't built into contracts. One of my relatives plays as a pro footballer and, genuinely, he does not know what his team-mates earn. He has a rough idea (gathered by chit-chat) but he could not say exactly what they earn.

It all depends if you believe him or not (and on here, many don't clearly), but read Uncle Arry's autobiography in which he states that things have changed so much in this respect. When he took over QPR he had no idea that Jose Boswinga was earning his ridiculously high salary until he had fined him two weeks wages.

Regarding Chris Samba, he had identified him as a target but then it was Tony Fernandes who went out, 48 hrs later, and signed him.. not on loan, as had been suggested, but on a permanent.

I genuinely don't think it was Sven who wasted all the money we did. It was the Board and it's sundry representatives.

Sven's shortfall was that he couldnt manage them.

[Captain...]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Andrew-Neville-strapped-ready-ride-Leicester-City/story-12807467-detail/story.html

Interview with Neville after he got the job, makes for interesting reading in hindsight.

As for Sven, he was clearly used to working on a much bigger budget and the Thais were willing to splash the cash, there wasn't much footballing knowledge in the boardroom, and the wrong sort of experience from the manager, a recipe for disaster and one of the reasons Sven lost his job was the financial side of things, we were doing ok on the pitch, but they had probably spoken to Sven about January transfer targets, and got another list of over priced and over paid mercenaries, and looked at the players like Ball, Johnson and Paintsil taking a fortune and doing fvck all in return, and thought hang on this isn't sustainable.

Of course Neville and others have to take their share of the blame, and the Thais for going after a big name manager with big budget experience and no experience at this level, but Sven has to take the lions share of the blame, the Thais give him a budget and he identified the wrong targets from a footballing and personality perspective and he massively overvalued players like Mills and Beckford based seemingly on reputation alone. Sven and Nigel don't sit down and work out the contracts for every player, but they identify them and value them, and have to have the knowledge to know when we are overspending on a player, when there are cheaper alternatives, and what the consequences are of every signing on and off the field. Sven got it badly wrong it cost him his job and us a lot of money.

[Babylon]

Again... as far as I know, managers do not get involved in contract negotiations. Nobody said they did. Top flight teams have staff experienced in this stuff. The manager identifies a potential signing and then the financial stuff is left to the money men.

I'm pretty sure that Sven may have commented on what he thought a player was worth, in terms of a transfer fee. And may have mentioned wages. Which is exactly what everyone else is saying... if you accept this point, how do you know he didn't say he's worth £5m and £30k in wages? But then it is left to the negotiators to negotiate.

This happens a lot in bigger, private sector companies, not only football.

Finally, (and I don't KNOW this), I'd be pretty surprised if some confidentiality clause isn't built into contracts. One of my relatives plays as a pro footballer and, genuinely, he does not know what his team-mates earn. He has a rough idea (gathered by chit-chat) but he could not say exactly what they earn. Money is rarely discussed player to player, but many share agents remember.

It all depends if you believe him or not (and on here, many don't clearly), but read Uncle Arry's autobiography in which he states that things have changed so much in this respect. When he took over QPR he had no idea that Jose Boswinga was earning his ridiculously high salary until he had fined him two weeks wages. Harry Redknapp is well known for being a cheque book manager, who has been up for fraud and had bank accounts in his ****ing dogs name, was part of the team who sent Pompey bust and would happily do the same at any other club. Not all managers are like Harry Redknapp, some are thankfully like Nigel Pearson who constantly preaches Value.

Regarding Chris Samba, he had identified him as a target but then it was Tony Fernandes who went out, 48 hrs later, and signed him.. not on loan, as had been suggested, but on a permanent.

I genuinely don't think it was Sven who wasted all the money we did. It was the Board and it's sundry representatives. Sven picked the shitty players, so yes he did waste it.

Sven's shortfall was that he couldnt manage them.

There should be collective blame from top to bottom, nobody should be without critisism. If Sven didn't know what people cost or earnt then he bloody well should have had some idea.

[cambridgefox]

Do some people really think the manager isn't asked if he feels a player deserves x amount of money?

Of course they do and would have input, it's absolutely absurd to claim they wouldn't.

Yes I would, but I wouldn't expect them to admit it to his players or anyone else. It's been freely admitted by lots of ex pros that big differences in wages can cause resentment around a club, so a manager should be interested in having a rough idea of what players earn. Would I expect him to know every detail, clearly not.

It's also just bloody common sense to keep on eye on what's being spent, especially if you have a budget (which I presume most do). If you have £5m to spend and some plonker in the office spunks your whole £5m on one player when you wanted three players you aren't going to be very happy.

There should be collective blame from top to bottom with regards the spending under Sven.

Agreed,as Babs has said resentment from other players can affect how people play,fairly important factor at a football club,I'm sure Pearson will want to know rough contracts to work out how he will MANAGE others for the good of his team.

[Guest Col city fan]

Again... as far as I know, managers do not get involved in contract negotiations. Nobody said they did. Top flight teams have staff experienced in this stuff. The manager identifies a potential signing and then the financial stuff is left to the money men.

I'm pretty sure that Sven may have commented on what he thought a player was worth, in terms of a transfer fee. And may have mentioned wages. Which is exactly what everyone else is saying... if you accept this point, how do you know he didn't say he's worth £5m and £30k in wages? But then it is left to the negotiators to negotiate.

This happens a lot in bigger, private sector companies, not only football.

Finally, (and I don't KNOW this), I'd be pretty surprised if some confidentiality clause isn't built into contracts. One of my relatives plays as a pro footballer and, genuinely, he does not know what his team-mates earn. He has a rough idea (gathered by chit-chat) but he could not say exactly what they earn. Money is rarely discussed player to player, but many share agents remember.

It all depends if you believe him or not (and on here, many don't clearly), but read Uncle Arry's autobiography in which he states that things have changed so much in this respect. When he took over QPR he had no idea that Jose Boswinga was earning his ridiculously high salary until he had fined him two weeks wages. Harry Redknapp is well known for being a cheque book manager, who has been up for fraud and had bank accounts in his ****ing dogs name, was part of the team who sent Pompey bust and would happily do the same at any other club. Not all managers are like Harry Redknapp, some are thankfully like Nigel Pearson who constantly preaches Value.

Regarding Chris Samba, he had identified him as a target but then it was Tony Fernandes who went out, 48 hrs later, and signed him.. not on loan, as had been suggested, but on a permanent.

I genuinely don't think it was Sven who wasted all the money we did. It was the Board and it's sundry representatives. Sven picked the shitty players, so yes he did waste it.

Sven's shortfall was that he couldnt manage them.

There should be collective blame from top to bottom, nobody should be without critisism. If Sven didn't know what people cost or earnt then he bloody well should have had some idea.

Is this a conversation around what SHOULD have happened (is happening) in people's opinion or what IS probably happening. The two are very different. If you ask me, I would say, of course, the manager of any profession needs to keep tabs on who is earning what, vis a vis everyone else etc etc.. ie. to have an overview of financial matters, even if they don't know all the intricacies of every contract.

But do you think Sven DID do this, or know this? My money would probably be on, he didn't... I would hazard a guess that he identified targets and left the club to it.. rightly or wrongly.

There are tons of examples of managers who, whilst still at clubs, or after they have left them, state publically that such and such a player was signed without them knowing it. Not only did they not know what they were earning, but, if to be believed, they didn't even know who they were getting!

So, the relationships between Board and Manager are not always clear-cut. The advent of roles such as Director of Football muddy the waters still further.

I wonder whether Van Gaal, for example, has been party to contract discussions with 30 million pound man Luke Shaw? Or whether he has had the time or the opportunity to discuss whether what Shaw will be paid may impact on the 'morale' of the club? He might have been (he has a telephone) but I would guess his head and his time are wrapped up in all things Dutch at present?

So the difference between 'Should' and 'is' (perhaps?) are two different things.

What I do believe is this... Having got their fingers burnt by signing poor players on daft wages and a manager that couldn't manage, the Thais have quickly learnt to be cautious. And in Pearson, I think they have a manager that they probably DO involve in financial matters in part, primarily because they seem to have a working relationship in which he is invited in to such matters. I would suggest this does not happen everywhere and probably wasn't as meaningful ( for want of a better term) when Sven was at the helm, as it is now. I think the Thais had a sweetie shop mentality going on when they first took over. They were clearly going for immediate promotion. Now, I think they are more pragmatic and I feel proud, actually, to be a fan of a club who now seem to be doing things the right way.

The season is soon to start. We will see whether this seemingly cautious approach pays dividends or if the allegedly, ' buy any old has-been and pay him a fortune' approach of QPR and Arry wins the day? I know which approach I'd sooner have. Pearson any day and twice on Sundays. But football is a quick-fix, cut-throat, get in, get out game these days and the proof of the proverbial pudding will be in the proverbial eating.

[GingerrrFox]

Not the whole Sven shit again. Yes blame Sven for picking the players but blame the board (and Andrew Neville) for how much they cost in fees and their wages.

[kingcarr21]

There all to blame. End of chat

[Babylon]

Is this a conversation around what SHOULD have happened (is happening) in people's opinion or what IS probably happening.

The conversation is you seemingly saying Sven should shoulder none of the blame for the over spending, and me saying it should be a collective blame from top to bottom. Seeing as we don't know the facts it's all guess work, so I would say the point of view of joint blame would be a better starting point then trying to shift the blame all onto Neville, or none of it onto Sven.

My opinion is, If Sven wasn't interested in the money side then he bloody well should have been, similarly with Redknapp. I would not want a manager in charge who doesn't give a shit what he spends on players.

[jamesmilner]

sven picked the wrong players Neville paid for . its just what happened . you think pearson doesn't want Ronaldo , messi , and co ? of course he does but someone other than him wouldn't allow it would they ? if it was allowed, pearson would take the credit ? no ! can pearson take credit for the club being in the black ? no , as he couldn't be at fault if the club renewed nugents contract to £100 grand a week and he flopped in the prem .

[jamesmilner]

Neville said this not me .

"Now we have the extra bit added as well, player acquisitions.

"It is arguably one of the key things that happen at a football club.

"If you get your acquisitions right you should be successful. Get them wrong and you won't be successful, and it will end up costing you quite a lot of money.

"That is what we are trying to focus on now, to get the right acquisitions to help make us successful next season."

Although City have yet to make a new signing, Neville said there had been a lot of hard work done to identify targets and open negotiations, and said his efforts should soon bear fruit.

and his efforts bore to fruit alright didn't they !

[Soar Fox]

Jamesmillner what the fvck are you going on about?

[Jace]

Jamesmillner what the fvck are you going on about?

In general or 1 post in particular?

[HEGGSY]

Jamesmillner what the fvck are you going on about?