MLS

[C-man]

Since I was born, we have won the following knockout games in the World Cup:

- Belgium (last minute wonder goal)

- Cameroon (luckily)

- Denmark

- Ecuador

Four. In 24 years FFS.

Two(!) since 1990. Let that sink in for a minute. The same number Ghana won in South Africa. Fewer than Turkey won in 2002.

The sooner everybody realises that we are an average last 16 team the better. Maybe then we could start celebrating achieving QFs which would take a lot of pressure off the lads.

[MC Prussian]

Because we are one of only 8 nations to have won the World Cup.

Yeah it was on home soil but Uruguay, Italy, Argentina and France also won their first World Cup at home.

Holland are a heavyweight and they have never won the World Cup.

Hungary have never won anything and they are now an average nation who never qualify for tournaments.

We have underachieved but that's mostly because we are bad at penalty shoot-outs.

We are probably the lightest of the heavyweights but a heavyweight nonetheless.

The gift that keeps on giving.

That's a smashing allegory you've got there.

But I've got something better and easier to understand:

Say I've got a turd. And I call that turd a big turd.

It may be big - but it's still a turd.

[Corky]

Since I was born, we have won the following knockout games in the World Cup:

- Belgium (last minute wonder goal)

- Cameroon (luckily)

- Denmark

- Ecuador

Four. In 24 years FFS.

Two(!) since 1990. Let that sink in for a minute. The same number Ghana won in South Africa. Fewer than Turkey won in 2002.

The sooner everybody realises that we are an average last 16 team the better. Maybe then we could start celebrating achieving QFs which would take a lot of pressure off the lads.

Maybe we might not have won 20 Copa Americas then

[Guest MattP]

- Belgium (last minute wonder goal)

- Cameroon (luckily)

- Denmark

- Ecuador

Four. In 24 years FFS.

Two(!) since 1990. Let that sink in for a minute. The same number Ghana won in South Africa. Fewer than Turkey won in 2002.

The sooner everybody realises that we are an average last 16 team the better. Maybe then we could start celebrating achieving QFs which would take a lot of pressure off the lads.

That's depressing reading, thank god we have been given two events at home or our record in major tournaments would look even more pathetic.

Heavyweight

Brazil, Italy, Germany, Uruguay, Spain, Argentina and France stand on their own as international heavyweights.

No one else can join the list. One win on home soil doesn't put us there with them.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

And yet we have been to more World Cups than Uruguay and the same amount as France and Spain.

[Guest MattP]

Shows how even more shocking we are then than those doesn't it.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

I think if you win the World Cup you are automatically heavyweight.

Are you saying you need to have won both the World Cup and the Euros?

[Guest ttfn]

Since I was born, we have won the following knockout games in the World Cup:

- Belgium (last minute wonder goal)

- Cameroon (luckily)

- Denmark

- Ecuador

Four. In 24 years FFS.

Two(!) since 1990. Let that sink in for a minute. The same number Ghana won in South Africa. Fewer than Turkey won in 2002.

The sooner everybody realises that we are an average last 16 team the better. Maybe then we could start celebrating achieving QFs which would take a lot of pressure off the lads.

Ghana won 1 in South Africa and Turkey won 2 in 2002 (unless you're counting 3rd/4th).

As balance it is worth mentioning that in the same period, until this tournament Argentina had only beaten Mexico without the aid of penalties since 1990.

24 years might seem like a long time but it is only 6 world cups, one of which we didn't qualify for and 2 of which we exited on penalties. We've only really been humiliated by Germany in that time.

In terms or our world standing I'd have us somewhere near where Spain were 10 years ago. Always qualify well, plenty of recognisable names and faces but never threaten the latter stages.

The sad thing is, however, that even if you extend your criteria to cover the euros, we've won 3 major tournament knockout matches in 90 minutes since 1966 and 6 if you include extra time and penalties. In 48 (and what will be 50) years.

[Guest MattP]

I think if you win the World Cup you are automatically heavyweight.

Are you saying you need to have won both the World Cup and the Euros?

Nope, I think to be a heavyweight you have to be consistently at the business ends of major tournaments.

Anyone can fluke one tournament, Greece did. Doesn't make them a European heavyweight imo as they won it once.

Edited 7 July 2014 by MattP

[Corky]

I think if you win the World Cup you are automatically heavyweight.

Are you saying you need to have won both the World Cup and the Euros?

Reaching semi-finals regularly might start to improve our standing.

We have our World Cup, fantastic, but it's an exception and not a rule.

[MC Prussian]

I think if you win the World Cup you are automatically heavyweight.

Are you saying you need to have won both the World Cup and the Euros?

To classify as a heavyweight footballing force, you've got to deliver on a more constant basis than England.

You'll get The Regularly Most Overhyped Nation Award instead, though.

[The Doctor]

I'm convinced POTM must be a troll, no way anyone can be this deluded. England just aren't heavyweights - you've won one world cup, on your own soil. If in over 80 years of international football all you can claim is one win on home soil, and an abysmal performance in foreign tournaments, you're not a heavyweight.

10 years is nothing in football? Seriously a Leicester fan has just said that..

Think about your clubs last 10 years Finners and you may then realise that is a long time in Football and a lot CAN happen.

It is nothing in terms of international football - there's no sudden rises like Manchester Citys, where in a decade they go from relegation battlers to champions due to a big buyout - in international football you reap what you sow at the grassroots level, and improvements to player development will take more than a decade to show: even for an average aged team in 10 years, they'll be coming towards the end of grassroots now.

[Grandad.]

I think the fact Holland are a game away from consecutive World Cup Finals suggests they are footballing heavyweights, I love England more than anyone but I can even admit we aren't right now a football heavyweight.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Because we are one of only 8 nations to have won the World Cup.

Yeah it was on home soil but Uruguay, Italy, Argentina and France also won their first World Cup at home.

Holland are a heavyweight and they have never won the World Cup.

Hungary have never won anything and they are now an average nation who never qualify for tournaments.

We have underachieved but that's mostly because we are bad at penalty shoot-outs.

We are probably the lightest of the heavyweights but a heavyweight nonetheless.

[Hugo Sanchez]

Ok Lets do some studing folks.

From 1966 onwards.

1970 - lost to West German 3-2. England 2-0 up and easing into a semi final with Italy. Peter Bonetti has a mere, the best goalkeeper in the world goes down with the shits after drinking dodgy mexican beer. England with Banks would had more then likely reached the final against Brazil.

Verdict- could of won the world cup and extremely unlucky.

1982 - England ease through a group containing a very talented french side and into a group of 3 containing host Spain and West Germany. England missing two key players in Trevor Brooking and Kevin Keegan draw both with Finalists West Germany and a half fit Keegan misses a sitter against Spain.

Verdict - Unlucky and bad luck with injuries again ... could of easily reached the final

1986 - started of with a poor lose to Portugal and a draw and then Gary Lineker turned up and smashed England back into the world cup. After a 3-0 win the previous game, England came into the game fully expecting to win. Maradona then cheated England out of a semi final with Belgium. What England would had been expected to win. Meeting West Germany in the final.

Verdict - Cheated out of a world cup semi final, England with Lineker on fire could had easily won it.

1990 - Poor start with draws against ireland and Holland and Beating Egypt to scrape through. Then David Platt gave England hope against a good Belgium team and a hard fought win against a spirited Cameroon team led England to a semi final. England conceded a dodgy goal via paul parker and witj the score levels. England look the more likely when Waddle hit the post. Then a tragedy unfolded what would haunt English football.

Verdict - Deserve to be world champions, better team then West Germany and Argentina.

1998 - England should had topped the group but lost to a dodgy late dan petrescu romania goal. Deserved to beat Argentina and Beckham let himself and the team down. Hoddle had England playing good football and after euro 96, and a good draw in Italy, and also won the Tournoi de France in the summer of 1997 against 3 heavyweights in France, Italy and Brazil. Their was belief England could and should off went all the way. The Argentina game Owen burst into footballing history with a amazing solo effort and England look like the more likely untill Beckham moment of stupidity cost them, even though Campbell scored a perfectly good goal .. Out cruelly on penalties again.

Verdict - Beckham sending off cost England the world cup, plus Sol Campbell had a disallowed goal what should of stood.

2002 - England after the disastrous Keegan reign, came into this world cup full of hope after a famous 5-1 win against Germany. A tough group with a famous win over Argentina led into England destroying Denmark and into a quarter final with Brazil. England went ahead early and controlled the game untill Beckham backed out a challenge and brazil went in level. Nothing was really happening untill brazil scored the flukeist goal in world cup history. Brazil went down to ten and if that flukey goal wouldn't had went in. England would off probably won and definitely won the world cup with a crap Germany team, South Korea and Turkey left.

Verdict - The real world cup final was England vs Brazil, who ever won that was gonna win it. A flukey goal put england out. England could of easily won it.

2006 - The golden generation, favourites to win it. England had a amazing group of players at the world cup but missing their star player in Rooney. Yeah he was there but wasn't never fit. After destroying Euro 2004 everyone expected Rooney to finally bring football home. After a bad injured against chelsea, he was racing to get fit. England didn't play amazing but did enough to set up a quarter final clash with Portugal. England matched Portugal that day but Portugal player's wound Rooney up and his old pal Ronaldo got pushed and got him sent off. Even with ten man just like 98. England wouldn't be beating and went out in a cruel penalty shoot out.

Verdict - A fit Rooney and England could of definitely went all the way. There was no way Italy side were better then that set of English players

2010 - England arrived after great qualification success, a win in Germany set everything up nicely. Then the terry shagged Bridges ex mrs story came out and got stripped of the captaincy and handed to a weaker captain in Gerrard. England struggled through a easy group and were getting pasted by Germany. Then something magical happened, upson pulled a goal back and Lampard equalised putting England in charge and Germany in the back foot. Then something wrong happened, the goal wasn't given and now England were dejected. 2ND Half England piled forward and got caught on the counter attack.

Verdict - key players didn't perform and a bad results in the group left England looking down and out. Then when Lampard equalised, England had finally arrived and were in business. Who knows what would of ever happened but if England won that game 3-2. England would had been on a role going into a quarter final looking for revenge against Maradona.

2014 - England's worst world cup ever. Biggest mistake was the midfield pairing of Gerrard and Henderson. Nothing was being created in the final 3rd and England just didn't have enough with players like struidge and Sterling who had their moments but weren't good enough

Verdict - worst world cup ever and never fancied to do owt and why Woy should be sacked.

So by my logic, England have had no luck over the years and always gone into most world cups as fancied and a heavyweight.

In closing NEVER STOP ME DREAMIN

[The Horse's Mouth]

I'm convinced POTM must be a troll

He is, I thought this would have been obvious by now.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

Reaching semi-finals regularly might start to improve our standing.

We have our World Cup, fantastic, but it's an exception and not a rule.

Could say the same for Spain.

They only have 1 World Cup and have twice got to the semi-finals - same as us.

[Grandad.]

Ok Lets do some studing folks.

From 1966 onwards.

1970 - lost to West German 3-2. England 2-0 up and easing into a semi final with Italy. Peter Bonetti has a mere, the best goalkeeper in the world goes down with the shits after drinking dodgy mexican beer. England with Banks would had more then likely reached the final against Brazil.

Verdict- could of won the world cup and extremely unlucky.

1982 - England ease through a group containing a very talented french side and into a group of 3 containing host Spain and West Germany. England missing two key players in Trevor Brooking and Kevin Keegan draw both with Finalists West Germany and a half fit Keegan misses a sitter against Spain.

Verdict - Unlucky and bad luck with injuries again ... could of easily reached the final

1986 - started of with a poor lose to Portugal and a draw and then Gary Lineker turned up and smashed England back into the world cup. After a 3-0 win the previous game, England came into the game fully expecting to win. Maradona then cheated England out of a semi final with Belgium. What England would had been expected to win. Meeting West Germany in the final.

Verdict - Cheated out of a world cup semi final, England with Lineker on fire could had easily won it.

1990 - Poor start with draws against ireland and Holland and Beating Egypt to scrape through. Then David Platt gave England hope against a good Belgium team and a hard fought win against a spirited Cameroon team led England to a semi final. England conceded a dodgy goal via paul parker and witj the score levels. England look the more likely when Waddle hit the post. Then a tragedy unfolded what would haunt English football.

Verdict - Deserve to be world champions, better team then West Germany and Argentina.

1998 - England should had topped the group but lost to a dodgy late dan petrescu romania goal. Deserved to beat Argentina and Beckham let himself and the team down. Hoddle had England playing good football and after euro 96, and a good draw in Italy, and also won the Tournoi de France in the summer of 1997 against 3 heavyweights in France, Italy and Brazil. Their was belief England could and should off went all the way. The Argentina game Owen burst into footballing history with a amazing solo effort and England look like the more likely untill Beckham moment of stupidity cost them, even though Campbell scored a perfectly good goal .. Out cruelly on penalties again.

Verdict - Beckham sending off cost England the world cup, plus Sol Campbell had a disallowed goal what should of stood.

2002 - England after the disastrous Keegan reign, came into this world cup full of hope after a famous 5-1 win against Germany. A tough group with a famous win over Argentina led into England destroying Denmark and into a quarter final with Brazil. England went ahead early and controlled the game untill Beckham backed out a challenge and brazil went in level. Nothing was really happening untill brazil scored the flukeist goal in world cup history. Brazil went down to ten and if that flukey goal wouldn't had went in. England would off probably won and definitely won the world cup with a crap Germany team, South Korea and Turkey left.

Verdict - The real world cup final was England vs Brazil, who ever won that was gonna win it. A flukey goal put england out. England could of easily won it.

2006 - The golden generation, favourites to win it. England had a amazing group of players at the world cup but missing their star player in Rooney. Yeah he was there but wasn't never fit. After destroying Euro 2004 everyone expected Rooney to finally bring football home. After a bad injured against chelsea, he was racing to get fit. England didn't play amazing but did enough to set up a quarter final clash with Portugal. England matched Portugal that day but Portugal player's wound Rooney up and his old pal Ronaldo got pushed and got him sent off. Even with ten man just like 98. England wouldn't be beating and went out in a cruel penalty shoot out.

Verdict - A fit Rooney and England could of definitely went all the way. There was no way Italy side were better then that set of English players

2010 - England arrived after great qualification success, a win in Germany set everything up nicely. Then the terry shagged Bridges ex mrs story came out and got stripped of the captaincy and handed to a weaker captain in Gerrard. England struggled through a easy group and were getting pasted by Germany. Then something magical happened, upson pulled a goal back and Lampard equalised putting England in charge and Germany in the back foot. Then something wrong happened, the goal wasn't given and now England were dejected. 2ND Half England piled forward and got caught on the counter attack.

Verdict - key players didn't perform and a bad results in the group left England looking down and out. Then when Lampard equalised, England had finally arrived and were in business. Who knows what would of ever happened but if England won that game 3-2. England would had been on a role going into a quarter final looking for revenge against Maradona.

2014 - England's worst world cup ever. Biggest mistake was the midfield pairing of Gerrard and Henderson. Nothing was being created in the final 3rd and England just didn't have enough with players like struidge and Sterling who had their moments but weren't good enough

Verdict - worst world cup ever and never fancied to do owt and why Woy should be sacked.

So by my logic, England have had no luck over the years and always gone into most world cups as fancied and a heavyweight.

In closing NEVER STOP ME DREAMIN

I don't give two shits about England because I'm a Leicester fan and I follow Leicester. You know I can't really get excited about supporting the likes of Gerrard and Rooney because they're not Drinkwater and Vardy..

I'd take Bolton away over England winning the World cup anyday.

But you don't give a shit about England do you Hugo?

I agree with a lot of what you said in your post, don't think we would ever have beaten Germany in 2010 if Lampard's goal was given, I know you said it might have happened but we wouldn't have. Don't agree that Campbell's goal v Argentina should have stood either, Shearer clearly elbowed the keeper.

Could say the same for Spain.

They only have 1 World Cup and have twice got to the semi-finals - same as us.

They also won three consecutive major tournaments.

[Hugo Sanchez]

But the point of England never getting close or being shit annoyed me, hence that post. England have never had the luck. Euro 2004 sums us up perfectly.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

They also won three consecutive major tournaments.

Yes they did but we actually have a better World Cup record than Spain.

Spain couldn't even reach the quarter-finals in when they hosted it.

But I would have classed Spain as a heavyweight before their golden era of 2008-2012.

Edited 7 July 2014 by Pride_Of_The_Midlands

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Ok Lets do some studing folks.

From 1966 onwards.

1970 -

Verdict- could of won the world cup and extremely unlucky.

1982 -

Verdict - Unlucky and bad luck with injuries again ... could of easily reached the final

1986 -

Verdict - Cheated out of a world cup semi final, England with Lineker on fire could had easily won it.

1990 -

Verdict - Deserve to be world champions, better team then West Germany and Argentina.

1998 -

Verdict - Beckham sending off cost England the world cup, plus Sol Campbell had a disallowed goal what should of stood.

2002 -

Verdict - The real world cup final was England vs Brazil, who ever won that was gonna win it. A flukey goal put england out. England could of easily won it.

2006 -

Verdict - A fit Rooney and England could of definitely went all the way. There was no way Italy side were better then that set of English players

2010 -

Verdict - key players didn't perform and a bad results in the group left England looking down and out. Then when Lampard equalised, England had finally arrived and were in business. Who knows what would of ever happened but if England won that game 3-2. England would had been on a role going into a quarter final looking for revenge against Maradona.

2014

Verdict - worst world cup ever and never fancied to do owt and why Woy should be sacked.

So by my logic, England have had no luck over the years and always gone into most world cups as fancied and a heavyweight.

In closing NEVER STOP ME DREAMIN

Looks like you should of won a lot of trophies if tournaments were based on luck and your logic

[Grandad.]

Yes they did but we actually have a better World Cup record than Spain.

Spain couldn't even reach the quarter-finals in when they hosted it.

But I would have classed Spain as a heavyweight before their golden era of 2008-2012

South Korea, Turkey, Sweden, Croatia and Bulgaria have all got further than us in the last 20 years.

Stop going on about World Cup records and garbage.

[CosbehFox]

And yet we have been to more World Cups than Uruguay and the same amount as France and Spain.

Yeh but because for years all we had to do was win the Home Nations Championship.

Edited 8 July 2014 by Cardiff_Fox

[OzFox]

My point is I don't think Australian's or Americans will ever have the same passion for football because they're not born into it. Like that yank who said ice hockey is his favourite sport ...

l

Dunno about that. I've watched football in England for 40 odd years but the most passionate, electric atmospheres I've experienced have been at Australia v Uruguay and a Western Sydney Wanderers game

The game would be even bigger here but for the AFL/NRL loving media who are frightened of losing their "turf". Probably is the same in the US with NFL/baseball etc

[SOCCERROO FOX]

l

Dunno about that. I've watched football in England for 40 odd years but the most passionate, electric atmospheres I've experienced have been at Australia v Uruguay and a Western Sydney Wanderers game

The game would be even bigger here but for the AFL/NRL loving media who are frightened of losing their "turf". Probably is the same in the US with NFL/baseball etc

You're wasting your time he admitted in a round about way he hasn't been to an A league or MLS game so he is basing his opinion on his baseless 'logic'