Webbo Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 That doesn't make it any less funny. Fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 Fair play. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 As long as I'm allowed to criticise Israel without being called anti-Semitic. You could turn the argument on it's head and say Judaism doesn't have so many critics as Islam. The anti-semite card is just modern propaganda - a debate/criticism stopping tactic. Israel is quite anti-semitic. Sephardic Jews are treated like second class citizens by Israel from what I've seen. Many Jews in Israel aren't even semitic, they're white Europeans who many historians say originated in the Caucasus region at the time of the Khazar empire when a king changed the empire's religion to Judaism, so even if some people do hate them then it's not really anti-semitism, it's anti-zionism because there's a mixture of people in there. I've been called anti-semitic for criticizing the Israeli government, but of course I'm not. Many of my favourite books on the bookshelf next to me are written by Jewish people. No hate from me for a whole group/race/religion/ethnicity or whatnot at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 Being as Saville has been brought into the thread, anyone remember when Israel invited him over and he was 'advising' the government? Peas in a pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 The anti-semite card is just modern propaganda - a debate/criticism stopping tactic. Israel is quite anti-semitic. Sephardic Jews are treated like second class citizens by Israel from what I've seen. Many Jews in Israel aren't even semitic, they're white Europeans who many historians say originated in the Caucasus region at the time of the Khazar empire when a king changed the empire's religion to Judaism, so even if some people do hate them then it's not really anti-semitism, it's anti-zionism because there's a mixture of people in there. I've been called anti-semitic for criticizing the Israeli government, but of course I'm not. Many of my favourite books on the bookshelf next to me are written by Jewish people. No hate from me for a whole group/race/religion/ethnicity or whatnot at all. "I'm not racist, I have black friends". Seriously though, I don't see how anyone could argue that there isn't a fair bit of anti-semitism in those who are anti-Israel - particularly when you're starting to get people suggesting Hitler was innocent and it's a shame he didn't succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacamion Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 I've been called anti-semitic for criticizing the Israeli government, but of course I'm not. Yeah, because of that. And the disgraceful Holocaust Denial. And the undue references in other threads to Zionists with hidden influence. Anyway, in other news, Glasgow City Council have decided to spend their Council Tax revenues by debating and then deciding to raise a Palestinian flag tomorrow. Row over Glasgow City Council's plans to fly Palestinan flag Glasgow City Council plans to fly the Palestinian flag on Friday Continue reading the main story Mid-East crisis A row has broken out over Glasgow City Council's plans to raise the Palestinian flag over the city chambers on Friday. Lord Provost Sadie Docherty said it would be raising the flag in solidarity with people who had been affected by the conflict in Gaza. But the Glasgow Jewish Representative Council president said it was "angered and hurt" by the council's decision. Paul Morron said: "Flying the flag is the worst kind of gesture politics." Full story is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28682483 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 I'm antitheistic and would prefer a world without religion of any sort, they are all excuses for segregation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 7 August 2014 Share Posted 7 August 2014 Have you ever been to the Holocaust museum? Or is that a Zionist plot too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 No, the death toll is far higher than 1 million, the accepted total by pretty much every historian is 5.7m - so 6 million - this isn't plucked at a whim, that tally came from lots of investigation and is pretty much certain. It's illegal to deny it in Germany for good reason - because the denial of the Holocaust is defamatory towards all the groups killed in it, and an incitement of violence against those groups (mainly jews, for some reason the general eugenics campaign of killing disabled people, gypsies etc gets passed over). They focus specifically on the Holocaust, along with other countries in that area, because it affected those areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 It's illegal to deny it in Germany for good reason - because the denial of the Holocaust is defamatory towards all the groups killed in it, and an incitement of violence against those groups (mainly jews, for some reason the general eugenics campaign of killing disabled people, gypsies etc gets passed over). They focus specifically on the Holocaust, along with other countries in that area, because it affected those areas. In what way? The law in Germany has always struck me as wrong. Unless the conversation strays into intimidation or calls for aggression then banning discussion on any topic isn't right. I don't see how criticising the facts and evidence for the holocaust, however weak that argument may be, can be seen as an incitement of violence against Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Some pretty shameful deletions going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Some pretty shameful deletions going on here. Holocaust denial is banned on here now. I have to delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Holocaust denial is banned on here now. I have to delete it. Fair enough, though for the record, I think that's a censorship too far. There is plenty of evidence to discredit those views; censorship just adds fuel to the 'Zionist Conspiracy' fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 I'm antitheistic and would prefer a world without religion of any sort, they are all excuses for segregation And a world without colour or sex or .... Man likes to fight, he'll carry on doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 This post might seem out of context, after all the censorship, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. In the early eighties, I spent a year in Israel as a kibbutz volunteer. During that time I met and spoke with several concentration camp survivors: a woman who watched her entire family, including her two children, dragged off to the gas chambers - she was repreived because the camp commander used her as a 'comfort woman'; a man who was literally next in line, saved by liberating 'red army' soldiers; a man who hadn't spoken a word in nearly 40 years, such was the trauma of his story (his sister told me what happened, but it's too upsetting for me to repeat it here). There is far too much first-hand testimony from people like these, for holocaust denial to have any credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 This post might seem out of context, after all the censorship, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. In the early eighties, I spent a year in Israel as a kibbutz volunteer. During that time I met and spoke with several concentration camp survivors: a woman who watched her entire family, including her two children, dragged off to the gas chambers - she was repreived because the camp commander used her as a 'comfort woman'; a man who was literally next in line, saved by liberating 'red army' soldiers; a man who hadn't spoken a word in nearly 40 years, such was the trauma of his story (his sister told me what happened, but it's too upsetting for me to repeat it here). There is far too much first-hand testimony from people like these, for holocaust denial to have any credibility. This is why I don't get Holocaust denial. Even without the masses of historical evidence, the anecdotal evidence is compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 In what way? The law in Germany has always struck me as wrong. Unless the conversation strays into intimidation or calls for aggression then banning discussion on any topic isn't right. I don't see how criticising the facts and evidence for the holocaust, however weak that argument may be, can be seen as an incitement of violence against Jews. Because it serves no purpose to deny irrefutable fact, discussing the hows and whys and scale is one thing, but to say it didn't happen, when it clearly did serves no purpose other than to be antagonistic and get a reaction. Typically people like El Empty (for I assume it was him) have read well written papers and articles by people they believe to be a credible source and are just repeating it. I don't blame them, but it is the people fabricating these lies and putting them out as fact for no other reason than to try and undermine all Jews and their plight. These people have a clear and very sinister agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 I think most people realise why anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe, however the discussionn of this seems as taboo as denying the holocaust itself. Quite a strange situation to find ourselves in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Can't believe that you can't have a serious discussion about serious subjects anymore. I put some serious thoughts on public view and was looking for a serious answer instead of the usual teenage stuff that The Doctor, Vacamion and a couple of others use against me. I wasn't being hateful at all, but was seriously looking for an adult discussion. People can spout disgusting things such as Palestinians want Israel to kill their children for propaganda purposes, thus dehumanising them, but I'm not allowed to express a few doubts about specific events (which I only did because certain posters started spouting crap about me instead of replying to the points I made about Israel and ISIS). People can laugh and joke after 250,000 people have been displaced and hundreds of children have been bombed to death, but woe betide anyone who tries to stay serious and have an adult conversation. The western world is now teeming with adults who act like hysterical teenage girls. If it wasn't so tragic it might be funny! --------------------------------------- Anyway, at least we can get back to the subject at hand, after certain posters took it way off track. I notice many people spout the propaganda of Israel wanting peace, and that if only Hamas would calm down then peace would be possible. The wanting peace claim is not true. Israel has broken 3 or 4 times more ceasefires than Hamas, and has also been stealing more land and provoking Palestinians constantly for over 60 years and continually forcing more of them off their land. They were using terrorism against British soldiers and Palestinians from the very start. If some group came to England and started what they started then we would still have resistance now from people who wanted their rightful land back. Here's a few quotes from Israel, and there are plenty more if people think these are rare (including the recent claims by a mad professor that Israeli men should rape the mothers of Palestinians). Israel wants peace my ass! Some Israeli people may want peace but their leaders certainly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midland_red Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Can't believe that you can't have a serious discussion about serious subjects anymore. I put some serious thoughts on public view and was looking for a serious answer instead of the usual teenage stuff that The Doctor, Vacamion and a couple of others use against me. I wasn't being hateful at all, but was seriously looking for an adult discussion. People can spout disgusting things such as Palestinians want Israel to kill their children for propaganda purposes, thus dehumanising them, but I'm not allowed to express a few doubts about specific events (which I only did because certain posters started spouting crap about me instead of replying to the points I made about Israel and ISIS). People can laugh and joke after 250,000 people have been displaced and hundreds of children have been bombed to death, but woe betide anyone who tries to stay serious and have an adult conversation. The western world is now teeming with adults who act like hysterical teenage girls. If it wasn't so tragic it might be funny! --------------------------------------- Anyway, at least we can get back to the subject at hand, after certain posters took it way off track. I notice many people spout the propaganda of Israel wanting peace, and that if only Hamas would calm down then peace would be possible. The wanting peace claim is not true. Israel has broken 3 or 4 times more ceasefires than Hamas, and has also been stealing more land and provoking Palestinians constantly for over 60 years and continually forcing more of them off their land. They were using terrorism against British soldiers and Palestinians from the very start. If some group came to England and started what they started then we would still have resistance now from people who wanted their rightful land back. Here's a few quotes from Israel, and there are plenty more if people think these are rare (including the recent claims by a mad professor that Israeli men should rape the mothers of Palestinians). Israel wants peace my ass! Some Israeli people may want peace but their leaders certainly don't. well posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacamion Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Can't believe that you can't have a serious discussion about serious subjects anymore. I put some serious thoughts on public view and was looking for a serious answer instead of the usual teenage stuff that The Doctor, Vacamion and a couple of others use against me. I wasn't being hateful at all, but was seriously looking for an adult discussion. I think my post was deleted merely because it quoted yours. I think, on the other hand, that your post was deleted because it denied the industrial slaughter of jewish people in WWII and asserted that actually, Jews in the camps had great leisure facilities. I may be wrong about why the posts disappeared... You obviously have an agenda. You've spouted this stuff on several occasions in various threads and where people have spotted it, they call you out on it. After that, your posts (and our responses) tend to disappear. If that's how it has to be to satisfy forum rules, fair enough, but the common denominator is that you keep posting such views to begin with. If it is "teenage" to assert that the Holocaust happened, call me a teenager. I'm teen and proud. But so is most of the rest of the civilised world. Anyway, threadjack over, I'll leave those that wish to discuss the current awful events in Gaza to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 Can't believe that you can't have a serious discussion about serious subjects anymore. I put some serious thoughts on public view and was looking for a serious answer instead of the usual teenage stuff that The Doctor, Vacamion and a couple of others use against me. I wasn't being hateful at all, but was seriously looking for an adult discussion. People can spout disgusting things such as Palestinians want Israel to kill their children for propaganda purposes, thus dehumanising them, but I'm not allowed to express a few doubts about specific events (which I only did because certain posters started spouting crap about me instead of replying to the points I made about Israel and ISIS). People can laugh and joke after 250,000 people have been displaced and hundreds of children have been bombed to death, but woe betide anyone who tries to stay serious and have an adult conversation. The western world is now teeming with adults who act like hysterical teenage girls. If it wasn't so tragic it might be funny! --------------------------------------- Anyway, at least we can get back to the subject at hand, after certain posters took it way off track. I notice many people spout the propaganda of Israel wanting peace, and that if only Hamas would calm down then peace would be possible. The wanting peace claim is not true. Israel has broken 3 or 4 times more ceasefires than Hamas, and has also been stealing more land and provoking Palestinians constantly for over 60 years and continually forcing more of them off their land. They were using terrorism against British soldiers and Palestinians from the very start. If some group came to England and started what they started then we would still have resistance now from people who wanted their rightful land back. Here's a few quotes from Israel, and there are plenty more if people think these are rare (including the recent claims by a mad professor that Israeli men should rape the mothers of Palestinians). Israel wants peace my ass! Some Israeli people may want peace but their leaders certainly don't. To be fair Bone Dog, a lot of what you have written in the past has been factually incorrect, you are one of the most biased poster on here. Personally I think you propagate your own propaganda on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 In what way? The law in Germany has always struck me as wrong. Unless the conversation strays into intimidation or calls for aggression then banning discussion on any topic isn't right. I don't see how criticising the facts and evidence for the holocaust, however weak that argument may be, can be seen as an incitement of violence against Jews. Because Holocaust denial is pretty much the reserve of Nazi sympathisers who use it as a preface to accuse Jews of being evil murderers who control the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 And a world without colour or sex or .... Man likes to fight, he'll carry on doing that. No happy with the rest of that because it is real, religion really isn't, neither is the boogie man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 August 2014 Share Posted 8 August 2014 No happy with the rest of that because it is real, religion really isn't, neither is the boogie man What's real about racism? And I assure you that religion is real - God may not be but religion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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