leicsmac Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 Well it looks a damn sight more " shitty " now doesn't it ? As for the " I'm all right actually " that went out the window when immigrants started blowing people up on trains and buses and beheading people on the streets of England. you really do need to get your Ostrich head out the sand . Sorry for coming after you again on account of this...but are you absolutely sure a race/religion war is not what you really want in this case? You seem to think it's inevitable and don't really decry that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettsj2 Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 Well it looks a damn sight more " shitty " now doesn't it ? As for the " I'm all right actually " that went out the window when immigrants started blowing people up on trains and buses and beheading people on the streets of England. you really do need to get your Ostrich head out the sand . No it doesnt look more shitty now. It only looks shit if your life is shit. I had mates in London when the bombs went off. Any one of them could have got hurt and not one of them has views anywhere near the ones you express. As for taking my head out of the sand, not a chance. I live by the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA LAZAROU Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 Sorry for coming after you again on account of this...but are you absolutely sure a race/religion war is not what you really want in this case? You seem to think it's inevitable and don't really decry that. No I don't think it's inevitable in fact I think it is easily avoidable. The problem is we don't have anyone in government strong enough to do what is necessary to cut this cancer out of our society. This is not a race problem this is a religious problem. A religion that is completely at odds with our way of life and will always be. This came about through thoughtless immigration policy's by the Labour government who now even admit they were wrong . They never once stopped to think about the impact of Islam on the British way of life and are now reaping what they sowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA LAZAROU Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 No it doesnt look more shitty now. It only looks shit if your life is shit. I had mates in London when the bombs went off. Any one of them could have got hurt and not one of them has views anywhere near the ones you express. As for taking my head out of the sand, not a chance. I live by the beach. well we shall agree to differ over whether life was shittyer years ago or not. As for your mates in London they were lucky. Had they had family members murdered in such a way or been maimed them selves I'm pretty sure there views would not be so liberal. But I respect your point of view as I would anyone who has an opposing point of view to my own. Debate is good for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 Trav you missed out the The Eton wall game, punting down the Thames, bowler hat and rolled umbrella. And for fairness at the other end, Blackpool holidays, rolled up trousers, knotted handkerchief (or flat cap) black pudding, tripe fag hanging out mouth and spot of Ecky Thump. {) Spot on Ken - all these things are traditionally British in many people's mind and have nothing to do with a modern Britain. Multi-culturalism doesn't work, but neither does isolationism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 Well it looks a damn sight more " shitty " now doesn't it ? As for the " I'm all right actually " that went out the window when immigrants started blowing people up on trains and buses and beheading people on the streets of England. you really do need to get your Ostrich head out the sand . Point of order. They were all Yorkshiremen except Germaine Lindsay, who was born in Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 well we shall agree to differ over whether life was shittyer years ago or not. As for your mates in London they were lucky. Had they had family members murdered in such a way or been maimed them selves I'm pretty sure there views would not be so liberal. But I respect your point of view as I would anyone who has an opposing point of view to my own. Debate is good for the soul. I hope that in event of a relative being killed I would have the sense and humanity to see the killer as a lone killer and not blame all those that come from the same country or culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 I hope that in event of a relative being killed I would have the sense and humanity to see the killer as a lone killer and not blame all those that come from the same country or culture. A lone killer? What if was an attack that was planned and funded by a large organisation that is supported by many people in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 The best time to go on Twitter is about now. All the atheists an bible bashers are on line. Even God makes an appearance although I suspect he may not be the (un)real one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 A lone killer? What if was an attack that was planned and funded by a large organisation that is supported by many people in this country? They would still not represent the whole human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 They would still not represent the whole human race. Neither do Christians but you seem to have no problem criticising them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA LAZAROU Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 I hope that in event of a relative being killed I would have the sense and humanity to see the killer as a lone killer and not blame all those that come from the same country or culture. All of those murderers were adherents of one faith . The murders were done in the name of that faith, irrespective of whether they represented the majority of that faith or not. Why do you hide away from simple truths ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 OK if you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 I hope that in event of a relative being killed I would have the sense and humanity to see the killer as a lone killer and not blame all those that come from the same country or culture. All of those murderers were adherents of one faith . The murders were done in the name of that faith, irrespective of whether they represented the majority of that faith or not. Why do you hide away from simple truths ? Well that's a bit weird. If I murder someone in the name of all agnostics, despite most agnostics disagreeing with my interpretation of being agnostic and being fairly horrified to associate their beliefs and values with me, surely it'd be pretty stupid for anybody to draw a conclusion that they should hold all agnostics responsible and in contempt? A lone killer? What if was an attack that was planned and funded by a large organisation that is supported by many people in this country? Are you referring to IS? How many people in this country support IS and their activities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 Neither do Christians but you seem to have no problem criticising them. I have no problem critising any religion. I am not defending Islam I am defending those not involved with the extremism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2014 Share Posted 5 October 2014 A lone killer? What if was an attack that was planned and funded by a large organisation that is supported by many people in this country? Would individuals or perpetrators responsible for carrying out the crime suffice better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA LAZAROU Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 Well that's a bit weird. If I murder someone in the name of all agnostics, despite most agnostics disagreeing with my interpretation of being agnostic and being fairly horrified to associate their beliefs and values with me, surely it'd be pretty stupid for anybody to draw a conclusion that they should hold all agnostics responsible and in contempt? Are you referring to IS? How many people in this country support IS and their activities? Agnostics don't go round telling anyone to murder because Agnostic is not a religion I would have thought that fairly obvious ? That in it's self is a pretty stupid conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 How? You can't make people behave in a certain way. And I don't mean it's wrong to make them do so I mean you physically can't do it. All you can do is nudge people in a certain direction and give people time to integrate themselves. I'm also a bit bemused that you're asking for these emergency powers as if we were facing a national disaster. Cultural war is some way off at the moment and there's no way we need to act as radically as you're suggesting. Smaller scale policies like changes in the education system, moderate reductions to immigration and prioritising those from the Anglo-sphere would be adequate. Personally I think the precedent you'd set by demanding for authoritarian government when it isn't needed would do far more damage than multiculturalism is doing now. Dont worry, he would become the first PM assassinated by an Englishman, with a Scot holding it steady, a Welshman adjusting the sights, and an Irishman loading it. Just to be sure a Norman providing cover, and an Anglo Saxon providing bed and breakfast, with a family of Germans organising the celebration party.With the French, Poles, Czechs and dutch providing the food, at an Italian Restaurant, with Spanish and portugese service.Not forgetting the Greeks who will happily break the cups and plates, to get out of the washing up.If it slips up somewhere the Celts and Vikings in the background on standby.oh the Iceni will return to reclaim their land rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 Are you referring to IS? How many people in this country support IS and their activities? No I was referring to Al Qaeda, but yours is a more relevant question today so let's answer that. Obviously there are no official statistics on support for IS. What we do know is that at least 700 British citizens have gone out there to kill or be killed in the name of the cause. Logically, those actually willing to travel, kill and die are the most hardcore supporters, they're travelling home and away to see every match, routinely full kit wankered, and probably have IS wallpaper and bedding. For every one hardcore supporter like them, there must be at least ten who still support the cause but aren't yet willing to travel to kill and be killed - home only supporters who just wear the shirt. For every home only supporters how many moderate fans must there be? People who attend every now and again, fair weather fans etc. 10? 50? 100? By any reasonable multiplier you're looking at tens of thousands of IS supporters at the very least, more likely hundreds of thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettsj2 Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 No I was referring to Al Qaeda, but yours is a more relevant question today so let's answer that. Obviously there are no official statistics on support for IS. What we do know is that at least 700 British citizens have gone out there to kill or be killed in the name of the cause. Logically, those actually willing to travel, kill and die are the most hardcore supporters, they're travelling home and away to see every match, routinely full kit wankered, and probably have IS wallpaper and bedding. For every one hardcore supporter like them, there must be at least ten who still support the cause but aren't yet willing to travel to kill and be killed - home only supporters who just wear the shirt. For every home only supporters how many moderate fans must there be? People who attend every now and again, fair weather fans etc. 10? 50? 100? By any reasonable multiplier you're looking at tens of thousands of IS supporters at the very least, more likely hundreds of thousands. You may or may not be right but one thing is for certain, bad math never proves a point well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koke Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 No I was referring to Al Qaeda, but yours is a more relevant question today so let's answer that. Obviously there are no official statistics on support for IS. What we do know is that at least 700 British citizens have gone out there to kill or be killed in the name of the cause. Logically, those actually willing to travel, kill and die are the most hardcore supporters, they're travelling home and away to see every match, routinely full kit wankered, and probably have IS wallpaper and bedding. For every one hardcore supporter like them, there must be at least ten who still support the cause but aren't yet willing to travel to kill and be killed - home only supporters who just wear the shirt. For every home only supporters how many moderate fans must there be? People who attend every now and again, fair weather fans etc. 10? 50? 100? By any reasonable multiplier you're looking at tens of thousands of IS supporters at the very least, more likely hundreds of thousands. So basically you have no facts or figures, or any other relevant stats. Just a lot of speculations and assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 So basically you have no facts or figures, or any other relevant stats. Just a lot of speculations and assumptions. There are no facts or figures, but that doesn't mean support for IS doesn't exist. I'm attempting to logically interpret what we do know to estimate the overall level of support. Contest my logic if you want, I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koke Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 There are no facts or figures, but that doesn't mean support for IS doesn't exist. I'm attempting to logically interpret what we do know to estimate the overall level of support. Contest my logic if you want, I'm all ears. Support for ISIS exist. However, you're using bad math and made up numbers. On my social media and the people I know offline, I have seen an outpouring of condemnation of ISIS. Ive seen the odd support for iSIS, but overwhelming majority of Muslims are against ISIS. This is, of course, anecdotal evidence, but that's all we've got. And remember, I despise Islam so Im not an apologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalalba Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 No I don't think it's inevitable in fact I think it is easily avoidable. The problem is we don't have anyone in government strong enough to do what is necessary to cut this cancer out of our society. This is not a race problem this is a religious problem. A religion that is completely at odds with our way of life and will always be. This came about through thoughtless immigration policy's by the Labour government who now even admit they were wrong . They never once stopped to think about the impact of Islam on the British way of life and are now reaping what they sowed. I think the Labour party of the past 20 years is about as evil a group of people there has ever been. Despite that, they are very clever individuals. Manipulating and fooling millions of people into believing that an ideology, that is generally bad for everyone, but make them believe its the complete opposite, is a carefully planned trick. No one would swap half their family for their next door neighbors and expect it to work, similarly, we shouldn't expect having foreigners (of many descriptions) living alongside us would work. The Labour party knew this, they're not that stupid. Question is, why were they so intent on forcing something upon us, knowing that it had as much chance of failing than of succeeding? Given that they knew for over a decade that girls were being raped, sometimes by paedophiles and that they too have a history of paedophiles within their own party, what does it say about them as an organisation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA LAZAROU Posted 6 October 2014 Share Posted 6 October 2014 Support for ISIS exist. However, you're using bad math and made up numbers. On my social media and the people I know offline, I have seen an outpouring of condemnation of ISIS. Ive seen the odd support for iSIS, but overwhelming majority of Muslims are against ISIS. This is, of course, anecdotal evidence, but that's all we've got. And remember, I despise Islam so Im not an apologist. Of course on your social media people supporting ISIS are more than willing to let it be known in public that they are supporters so all the world can take down their names. Terrorist and their supporters don't wear their colours in public do they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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