Carl the Llama Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 My missus used to work for the nursing bank too, Strokes; I think there's a subtle, but important, difference between bank-work and zero-hour contracts. Bank-work, as you rightly say, allows you to pick and choose which shifts you want to work: zero-hours, as I understand it, requires that you work whatever shifts are offered, often at short notice. Failure to do so results in dismissal. Also, unless the law has changed, you are not allowed to work for anyone else, something that isn't true for bank-workers. The law has changed. The fact that they aren't exclusive anymore was David's one defending argument for their existence on the channel 4 'debate' the other day.
Buce Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 it's not a subtle difference, it's a significant one. Yeah, you're right.
Buce Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 The law has changed. The fact that they aren't exclusive anymore was David's one defending argument for their existence on the channel 4 'debate' the other day. Oh, ok. Thanks.
Strokes Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 My missus used to work for the nursing bank too, Strokes; I think there's a subtle, but important, difference between bank-work and zero-hour contracts. Bank-work, as you rightly say, allows you to pick and choose which shifts you want to work: zero-hours, as I understand it, requires that you work whatever shifts are offered, often at short notice. Failure to do so results in dismissal. Also, unless the law has changed, you are not allowed to work for anyone else, something that isn't true for bank-workers.Its still a zero hour contract buce, they come in lots of formats. I'm just saying not all of the 700,000+ are these awful ones.
Rincewind Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 The key word(s) here are agreement on hours, time and days. It is the time scale of knowing when work is available I find wrong. Two or three days is fine as your weeks schedule can be arranged ahead but your life is disrupted by waiting for phone calls and not able to live a normal life if it is only a few hours notice. but it can alo depend on your situation and lifestyle or family situation. The choice of hours should be there to start with.
Guest MattP Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 How can your life be disrupted waiting for a phone call? That's seriously scraping the barrel in terms of excuses. You should still be able to carry off a conversation with an employer if you've had a few in the pub. I've applied for 4/5 jobs myself today, quite surprised at how much there is out there.
Stadt Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 How can your life be disrupted waiting for a phone call? That's seriously scraping the barrel in terms of excuses. You should still be able to carry off a conversation with an employer if you've had a few in the pub. I've applied for 4/5 jobs myself today, quite surprised at how much there is out there. You mean scratching?
Strokes Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 It might not be good now for these guys but it will look much better on their CV, when they apply for a more suitable post, than a gap. Shit jobs are a stepping stone and should drive people to better themselves, not wish the welfare system was better so they shouldn't have to bother.
Voll Blau Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 My cousin is standing as an independent in a strong Tory constituency as the Tories parachuted in a non-local candidate. He is probably going to lose, but he is doing a cracking job of getting out in the community and getting his odds down. The guy looks a natural, and the party lost him by not allowing him to be considered. I will have my fingers crossed. Would be hilarious if he won and held the balance of power. Good on him.The fact the main parties abuse the local link of FPTP so frequently by giving the Westminster clique the chance to stand ahead of good candidates with crucial knowledge of the local issues needs to stop. To be fair though, voters should be a bit more wise to it and stop just voting for a party rosette in the areas where this happens!
MooseBreath Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 The zero hour contracts debate just shows how desperate the left are getting really. Seems to me that most people on them are perfectly happy with the arrangement. The few who aren't are being given the opportunity to gain experience which will help them to progress. Seems like a win win situation all round. The left are just making up problems to do with the jobs market because there aren't any real problems for them to talk about.
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 The zero hour contracts debate just shows how desperate the left are getting really. Seems to me that most people on them are perfectly happy with the arrangement. The few who aren't are being given the opportunity to gain experience which will help them to progress. Seems like a win win situation all round. The left are just making up problems to do with the jobs market because there aren't any real problems for them to talk about. Where are you exactly getting this feedback Moose, do you use a national online survey, do you knock on doors, or are you a feet on the street man? I don't know how you manage to earn a living spending all your own time asking all these people about their zero hours contracts and how happy they are.
MooseBreath Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 Where are you exactly getting this feedback Moose, do you use a national online survey, do you knock on doors, or are you a feet on the street man? I don't know how you manage to earn a living spending all your own time asking all these people about their zero hours contracts and how happy they are. I could ask exactly the same question to all the people calling it a problem. Which is exactly my point. There is no evidence that this is a problem, the left are just pretending like it definitely is one when most anecdotal evidence suggests that it isn't.
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 I could ask exactly the same question to all the people calling it a problem. Which is exactly my point. There is no evidence that this is a problem, the left are just pretending like it definitely is one when most anecdotal evidence suggests that it isn't. so what your saying is your opinion on the matter is horseshit because you don't know.
MooseBreath Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 so what your saying is your opinion on the matter is horseshit because you don't know. I would say that if my opinion is horseshit then so is yours because neither of us know. So is your opinion horseshit? Are you just assuming that zero hours contracts are a problem when there is no evidence to suggest that at all?
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 I would say that if my opinion is horseshit then so is yours because neither of us know. So is your opinion horseshit? Are you just assuming that zero hours contracts are a problem when there is no evidence to suggest that at all? Even a moron could understand the concept of job security and the lack of within a zero contract hours scenario. So what you are saying that you are pretty confident people are not only happy but would happily choose the option of the prospect of odd hours, no hours, and no prospective regular income... hmmm that an interesting position. What's your anecdotal evidence based on exactly?
reynard Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 Where are you exactly getting this feedback Moose, do you use a national online survey, do you knock on doors, or are you a feet on the street man? I don't know how you manage to earn a living spending all your own time asking all these people about their zero hours contracts and how happy they are. Actually my wife is on zero hours contract and it is exactly what she wants. I acknowledge it is diferent for all but she wants part time work without a massive commitment and has ended up getting more hours than she bargained for. It might not work for some but it does for others. Many years ago as a student I negotiated a one hour a week contract as they wouldn't offer zero hours. It worked out well for both parties as I wasn't committed to more hours than I wanted but they could always call on me if needed.
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 Actually my wife is on zero hours contract and it is exactly what she wants. I acknowledge it is diferent for all but she wants part time work without a massive commitment and has ended up getting more hours than she bargained for. It might not work for some but it does for others. Many years ago as a student I negotiated a one hour a week contract as they wouldn't offer zero hours. It worked out well for both parties as I wasn't committed to more hours than I wanted but they could always call on me if needed. How old is your wife? you can give an age range if you like.
MooseBreath Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 Even a moron could understand the concept of job security and the lack of within a zero contract hours scenario. So what you are saying that you are pretty confident people are not only happy but would happily choose the option of the prospect of odd hours, no hours, and no prospective regular income... hmmm that an interesting position. What's your anecdotal evidence based on exactly? Again, you're making assumptions about the nature of zero hours contracts and attaching a negative connotation to them based on no evidence. We know that a lot of people on zero hours contracts are students and the elderly, ie people for whom casual working agreements are ideal. We also know that some people have zero hours contracts that afford them regular, but flexible working hours that are again ideal. There are also lots of self employed people who are officially be on zero hours contract while they're working for various clients. That's how I can safely assume that most people on zero hours contracts are happy with the arrangement. Where's your evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of any significant group of people who are on zero hours contracts but don't want to be and who would be better off if they weren't allowed?
Buce Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 Even a moron could understand the concept of job security and the lack of within a zero contract... Apparently not.
reynard Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 How old is your wife? you can give an age range if you like. I don't really see what that's got to do with it really. We're both well into our fifties now and I understand, as I said that it isn't right for everyone, but when I was 18 that was exactly what I wanted and was what I managed to get. Obviously if you want a mortgage etc then it isn't the way to go but I wouldn't condemn them completely as they are right for those who want to operate that way.
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 Again, you're making assumptions about the nature of zero hours contracts and attaching a negative connotation to them based on no evidence. We know that a lot of people on zero hours contracts are students and the elderly, ie people for whom casual working agreements are ideal. We also know that some people have zero hours contracts that afford them regular, but flexible working hours that are again ideal. There are also lots of self employed people who are officially be on zero hours contract while they're working for various clients. That's how I can safely assume that most people on zero hours contracts are happy with the arrangement. Where's your evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of any significant group of people who are on zero hours contracts but don't want to be and who would be better off if they weren't allowed? A third of those on zero hours contract want more hours. suppose that could be a sign of 'happiness' eh?
DB11 Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 A third of those on zero hours contract want more hours. suppose that could be a sign of 'happiness' eh? I assume you ignored the part where the reason was because they were part time and not because they were on zero hours contracts? edit: i'm not politically motivated and don't care either way, just thought I'd have a look at the link My own opinion is if people don't want a zero hours contract then don't sign it and apply for a different job. It's not hard to get one, unless you want it handed to you without putting in any work either now or when you were at school getting qualifications and then you deserve what you get (nothing)
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 I don't really see what that's got to do with it really. We're both well into our fifties now and I understand, as I said that it isn't right for everyone, but when I was 18 that was exactly what I wanted and was what I managed to get. Obviously if you want a mortgage etc then it isn't the way to go but I wouldn't condemn them completely as they are right for those who want to operate that way. I think it has a lot to do with your personal situation, whether you have kids, or dependents, whether your partner is employment, or whether you have a partner at all, hence why I asked the question. A couple of people stated they have a partner who's happy with a zero contract hours contract, and Moosey, who'll argue black is white regardless is not evidence to the contrary thought that individuals would prefer more hours and/or security.
sphericalfox Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 I assume you ignored the part where the reason was because they were part time and not because they were on zero hours contracts? Your point being? I thought they were working part-time because they want to and are super mega happy apparently 'Just over a third of those employed on a “zero-hours contract” want more hours, with most wanting them in their current job. This is somewhat greater than for people not employed on a “zero-hours contract”.
Webbo Posted 31 March 2015 Posted 31 March 2015 A third of those on zero hours contract want more hours. suppose that could be a sign of 'happiness' eh? I'm sure there are people on full time jobs who'd like more over time or a better job, everybody moans about their job. The only real evidence we have on this thread is 2 positive experiences. The implication that this is some kind of modern slavery and everyone on zero hour contracts is starving seems to be a bit of a myth.
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