2015 Election season ..........stuff it in here.

[Strokes]

Another pathetic but predictable Tory stunt aided by their compliant media. These businessmen have donated £9 million to the Conservatives.. Frankie Boyle is right, Wonder if they could get 100 nurses to sign something in support of them as well!

I know of one for sure.

[leicsmac]

I think you're assuming far more of a connection between academic economists and real businesses than actually exists. Banks and other businesses don't sit around waiting for the local university lecturers to tell them what to do. The academic world is mostly out on its own, dressed in crap tweed jackets, ignored by the real world. And economics as an academic subject is relatively narrow in scope, your average economics professor wouldn't have a clue how to run a bank never mind other businesses.

 

So businesses in the real world don't actually pay any attention to economic theory in their business plans at all? Their ideas to maximise profit are all their own and not driven by any economic advice? I'm not sure I buy that, but OK...

 

Evidently you think differently, but I think it's nice to have an area of society that pursues knowledge (in the case of science) for its own sake, as opposed to wondering how they can package and sell it for a quick buck. Of course, such ideas inevitably end up getting hijacked by the unscrupulous anyway (because that's the way the world is), but it is nice that there is at leas the illusion of a pursuit where material gain isn't everything.

 

You forgot about the leather patches on the tweed jackets, by the way. Very fetching.

[Guest MattP]

Another pathetic but predictable Tory stunt aided by their compliant media. These businessmen have donated £9 million to the Conservatives.. Frankie Boyle is right, Wonder if they could get 100 nurses to sign something in support of them as well!

 

Mr Mrs is a nurse and she's a Tory, I also went for dinner with ten nurses from Glenfield Hospital and most of them seemed on the blue side and certainly weren't supporting Labour.

 

You need to clear your head of these myths you seem to have filled it with since the 70's, Nurses certainly aren't like Teachers in my experience. They generally hold the opinion that anyone who is in power cocks it up somehow.

[Benji]

Another pathetic but predictable Tory stunt aided by their compliant media. These businessmen have donated £9 million to the Conservatives.. Frankie Boyle is right, Wonder if they could get 100 nurses to sign something in support of them as well!

Feel free to include my mum as one of the 100 - over 30 years' service in the NHS (edit: and still paid a pittance, before a salary card comes out).

[Guest MattP]

(1) I'm in good company interpreting the letter as implied backing for the Tories. The BBC headlined their article "Bosses' letter backing Tories fuels business battle". Admittedly, the Telegraph headline was "100 business chiefs: Labour threatens Britain's recovery" (although the letter itself doesn't even mention Labour, just "a change in course"), but their subheading is "Senior executives [....] hail Conservative economic policies".

 

The letter (abridged) reads: "We believe this Conservative-led government has been good for business.....Cameron and Osborne's [N.B: NOT Clegg/Cable's] flagship policy of progressively lowering Corporation Tax.....has been very important......We believe a change in course will threaten jobs and deter investment....". So, several bits of praise for Tories, no mention of Lib Dems, UKIP or Labour. It would seem a bit bizarre for anyone to have signed a letter repeatedly praising the Tories and not mentioning any other party, if they wanted to express support for the Lib Dems, UKIP or Labour. As for "warning of the dangers of a Miliband-led government", that is certainly implied, though not stated.....as I said, the cowards are allowing themselves sufficient wiggle room to ingratiate themselves with Red Ed if he wins, rather than coming out and saying "Vote Tory, the party of big wealth and big business!" Why so shy?! 

 

(2) It's a perfectly coherent stance to agree with business executives when they say we should stay in the EU and to disagree when they imply that Britain needs a Tory government or that tax cuts for big business are a good idea. Many (most?) Tories take the opposite view, disagreeing with big business over Europe but agreeing over tax cuts for big business and the rich. I hope that the campaign generates a good debate about the EU, though the Tories are bound to try to prevent that as it will expose their massive divisions, with the majority Tory view at odds with business leaders. Personally, I'd like Labour to support a referendum, but their position is a lot more united and coherent than the Tory position on Europe.

 

(3) You're lucky if all your employers have shown such an enlightened attitude to their staff (some certainly do, but some just want to shaft them for all they're worth, in my experience). Anyway, it wasn't the business bods who implied that they were the only "wealth creators" (even the exploitative ones would be savvy enough to pretend they valued their staff), it was Moosebreath who claimed that these business executives were "THE creators of jobs and wealth", implying that employees do not create wealth.

 

You've not really said anything there that actually responds to points I made, it's just the same points you made first time around worded differently, in answer again to point 1, if that's your interpretation so be it, it's not the one I got and as I and many media outlet's have mentioned the list contains numerous names who have previously backed Labour or the Liberal Democrats.

 

They can agree and disagree with what they want, it's how Ed holds these people up as the bastion of sense when they agree with him and then it's 'typical Tories' when they don't.

 

I must have been lucky, although not that lucky given one sacked me.

[l444ry]

Haha. Two candidates promptly supplied by Tories. So, the nurses back the Tory Party now. You couldn't make it up.

[Guest MattP]

I know 2 or 3 nurses and the way they talk I'm pretty sure they're tory, certainly not labour anyway.

 

I know of one for sure.

 

Mr Mrs is a nurse and she's a Tory, I also went for dinner with ten nurses from Glenfield Hospital and most of them seemed on the blue side and certainly weren't supporting Labour.

 

You need to clear your head of these myths you seem to have filled it with since the 70's, Nurses certainly aren't like Teachers in my experience. They generally hold the opinion that anyone who is in power cocks it up somehow.

 

Feel free to include my mum as one of the 100 - over 30 years' service in the NHS (edit: and still paid a pittance, before a salary card comes out).

 

Could probably cobble together 100 from this website at this rate.

 

Imagine taking your political views on the Tories from a Glasgow based comedian.

[Benji]

You've not really said anything there that actually responds to points I made, it's just the same points you made first time around worded differently, in answer again to point 1, if that's your interpretation so be it, it's not the one I got and as I and many media outlet's have mentioned the list contains numerous names who have previously backed Labour or the Liberal Democrats.

 

They can agree and disagree with what they want, it's how Ed holds these people up as the bastion of sense when they agree with him and then it's 'typical Tories' when they don't.

 

I must have been lucky, although not that lucky given one sacked me.

Maybe you were just lucky you weren't sacked sooner?

[Strokes]

Leave it too Frankie Boyle and Russell brand to take down the tories, I'm sure they will be petrified.

[Strokes]

Haha. Two candidates promptly supplied by Tories. So, the nurses back the Tory Party now. You couldn't make it up.

My missus is a nurse, she is a tory supporter, you are more than welcome round to ask her opinion. A local labour canvasser did only last week and probably regrets it.

[Webbo]

Haha. Two candidates promptly supplied by Tories. So, the nurses back the Tory Party now. You couldn't make it up.

Some nurses are supporting the tories. Out of 370,000 nurses (14,000 more since 2010) did you really think you couldn't find 100 that supported the tories?

[Parafox]

What have the views of academic economists got to do with big business and the banking sector? Economists are famously terrible at predicting anything.

 

So when Georgie Osborne and his team of economists set out his budget based on forthcoming expected economic situations (predictions), we should largely think it's all guesswork with no substance in fact?

[leicsmac]

Mr Mrs is a nurse and she's a Tory, I also went for dinner with ten nurses from Glenfield Hospital and most of them seemed on the blue side and certainly weren't supporting Labour.

 

You need to clear your head of these myths you seem to have filled it with since the 70's, Nurses certainly aren't like Teachers in my experience. They generally hold the opinion that anyone who is in power cocks it up somehow.

 

I think most teachers would agree with nurses in that respect. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Parafox]

I guess this isn't a surprise but, (some of) the creators of jobs and wealth (for themselves) are backing the conservatives (who they support anyway)  this morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32141412

 

I've edited this to make the comment more realistic

[l444ry]

Some nurses are supporting the tories. Out of 370,000 nurses (14,000 more since 2010) did you really think you couldn't find 100 that supported the tories?

I don't expect anything Webbo. Tories don't seem able to spot a tongue in cheek comment from a comedian though.

[MooseBreath]

So businesses in the real world don't actually pay any attention to economic theory in their business plans at all? Their ideas to maximise profit are all their own and not driven by any economic advice? I'm not sure I buy that, but OK...

Evidently you think differently, but I think it's nice to have an area of society that pursues knowledge (in the case of science) for its own sake, as opposed to wondering how they can package and sell it for a quick buck. Of course, such ideas inevitably end up getting hijacked by the unscrupulous anyway (because that's the way the world is), but it is nice that there is at leas the illusion of a pursuit where material gain isn't everything.

You forgot about the leather patches on the tweed jackets, by the way. Very fetching.

The average business probably gives not much more than a cursory glance towards academic economic theory. I think the idea that academics are leading lights in the world of business is exceptionally fanciful. Most businesses already know far more about their own sector than your average academic ever could even if they made observing that sector their life's work. Thats the nature of being involved versus merely observing.

[MooseBreath]

So when Georgie Osborne and his team of economists set out his budget based on forthcoming expected economic situations (predictions), we should largely think it's all guesswork with no substance in fact?

More or less, yes, I wouldn't bet the farm on any economic forecast. What matters, in the end, is what actually happens.

[Buce]

My missus is a nurse, she is a tory supporter, you are more than welcome round to ask her opinion. A local labour canvasser did only last week and probably regrets it.

I know a dozen or so who would rather clean bed-pans with their tongue than vote Tory.

Birds of a feather, perhaps?

[MPH]

Seems pretty much neck and neck in the polls at the mo.  Alarming that UKIP are getting anywhere between 12-16 % in the polls. Whilst i do agree with some of their policies, they have too many nutjobs in their party for me to ever vote for them.

 

 

It'd be intresting who the tories would form a coalition with this time should they be re-elected with a hung parliament...

[leicsmac]

The average business probably gives not much more than a cursory glance towards academic economic theory. I think the idea that academics are leading lights in the world of business is exceptionally fanciful. Most businesses already know far more about their own sector than your average academic ever could even if they made observing that sector their life's work. Thats the nature of being involved versus merely observing.

 

From the perspective of how the business operates within a particular market this would be true, and I think the opposite is true too. That being said, I'm pretty sure there are at least some basic fundamental economic theories to which most businesses and banks adhere.

 

I think the fundamental difference there is that business exists purely to perpetuate material gain, while academia exists to expand human knowledge. Both are necessary and usually you have to combine them to further human development.

[Benji]

I know a dozen or so who would rather clean bed-pans with their tongue than vote Tory.

That goes without saying and I suspect few would be so ignorant to claim otherwise.

Seems pretty much neck and neck in the polls at the mo.  Alarming that UKIP are getting anywhere between 12-16 % in the polls. Whilst i do agree with some of their policies, they have too many nutjobs in their party for me to ever vote for them.

 

 

It'd be intresting who the tories would form a coalition with this time should they be re-elected with a hung parliament...

Dumb question but are polls generally based on the number of votes or do they attempt to reflect a FPTP system?

[Alf Bentley]

You've not really said anything there that actually responds to points I made, it's just the same points you made first time around worded differently, in answer again to point 1, if that's your interpretation so be it, it's not the one I got and as I and many media outlet's have mentioned the list contains numerous names who have previously backed Labour or the Liberal Democrats.

 

They can agree and disagree with what they want, it's how Ed holds these people up as the bastion of sense when they agree with him and then it's 'typical Tories' when they don't.

 

I must have been lucky, although not that lucky given one sacked me.

 

I can't see that I've failed to answer your points, but feel free to repeat any I've missed....

 

Your points, as I understand them - and my answers (already explained)

(1) You: The signatories to the letter aren't necessarily pro-Tory, just anti-Labour, and some of them have previously supported other parties; Me: A few may have supported other parties before, but the letter is implicitly pro-Tory, unsurprisingly as the Tories are the party of big business & Red Ed has more of a social / less of a business focus than Blair/Brown - though the signatories hedge their bets by not explicitly supporting the Tories or condemning Labour.

(2) You: It's inconsistent for Labour to quote business bods when they support EU membership, but to disagree when they support the Tories or tax cuts for big business; Me: If it is inconsistent, then most Tories are inconsistent in grumbling if business bods criticise their EU referendum policy but applauding when they support corporation tax cuts and austerity; but it's fine for either party to cherry-pick comments they do or don't like, anyway.

(3) You: Whereas Moose sees all wealth as generated by capital / entrepreneurs and not by the labour force, your experience is that all employers value the contribution of workers in adding value to their business; Me: That's true of many good employers, but not of bad employers, who think only of the short-term bottom line and exploit staff terms & conditions to the max, hence the need for better employment protection.

[MPH]

Dumb question but are polls generally based on the number of votes or do they attempt to reflect a FPTP system?

 

 

usually by sample size... several polls are taken from several areas at different times of the day to reflect as random as possible an opinion and thus reflecting a supposed opinioon of the whole population.

 

 

Has to be said if an opinion poll is taken by the UKIP part outside their HQ then it would be best ignored. Likewise for the labor part or any part for that matter.

 

 

 

Better to look at several different opinion polls to get a fair reflection

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

[Webbo]

 

(3) You: Whereas Moose sees all wealth as generated by capital / entrepreneurs and not by the labour force, your experience is that all employers value the contribution of workers in adding value to their business; Me: That's true of many good employers, but not of bad employers, who think only of the short-term bottom line and exploit staff terms & conditions to the max, hence the need for better employment protection.

So any wealth created is generated by the employees, but when we had the crash that was all down to the banks and big business?

[Jon the Hat]

I don't think anyone can argue that any particular ONE of the three key stakeholders in a business - Employees, Shareholders or Customers/clients etc are responsible for wealth creation, it is clearly a balance of all three.  Some companies get the balance better than others, but you wont fund any successful organisation which doesn't realise this.  You can take advantage of one at the expense of the others for a while, maybe a few years tops, but it will come back and bite you eventually.