Gunmen take Sydney cafe hostage

[Harry - LCFC]

 

Sad sad day.

 

A cowardly act.

 

A beautiful and positive thing to come from the siege is the #illridewithyou hashtag has become the number one topic on twitter. After a number of threats and people being forced to remove their headscarfes etc

 

• #illridewithyou is the offer from non muslims to ride with Muslims on public transport and help them feel safe and welcomed.

 

 

Sorry for being cynical but I think that's nothing more than posturing. Very few people are going to actually do that, not that they need to anyway. Muslims are not going to be held in contempt after this event.

[ozleicester]

Sorry for being cynical but I think that's nothing more than posturing. Very few people are going to actually do that, not that they need to anyway. Muslims are not going to be held in contempt after this event.

 

I disagree and we have already seen it happening.

 

As for Muslims 'not being held in contempt",

 

Im not sure what you are saying here, but it is quite simply a fact that here in Oz there have been a number of anti muslim statements, attacks on places of worship and schools etc. I personally have helped a couple of young muslim women who were being harassed simply for wearing a headscarfe. (edit, not as a result of this event)

 

Your cynicism is understandable, but i choose to believe and act positively.

 

2nd edit - an article about the Ill ride with you

 

- http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/how-illridewithyou-began-with-rachael-jacobs-experience-on-a-brisbane-train-20141216-128205.html?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn%3Afac-14omn0013-optim-nnn%3Anonpaid-25%2F06%2F2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-smh-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_facebook

[Jon the Hat]

Sorry for being cynical but I think that's nothing more than posturing. Very few people are going to actually do that, not that they need to anyway. Muslims are not going to be held in contempt after this event.

There is a lot of anti Muslim sentiment in Australia already.

[MC Prussian]

The nutcase was known in Australia for years. The shot Iranian, 50, "received political asylum in Australia in 1996 and was on bail facing a number of charges".

He had sent numerous indecent letters to widows of deceased Australian soldiers in Iraq and is said to have ordered his ex-wife murdered.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30484419

 

Now a lawyer and the café's manager are dead because of one man's quest for "truth".

[Guest MattP]

As lovely as #illridewithyou is can people at least wait to day to show the world how wonderfully liberal they are?

All thoughts and concern should be with the hostages and the families who gave lost loved ones are the minute.

[Guest MattP]

There is a lot of anti Muslim sentiment in Australia already.

With good reason as well looking around the rest of the world, they shouldn't make the mistakes Europe has.

I was surprised just how Islamic Sydney was, in Parramatta it was like little Lebanon.

[Guest MattP]

Spare a thought for the people of Pakistan as well. The taliban are holding up a school and twenty dead already.

For us at the minute this stuff is a rarity, for them it's everyday life.

[leicsmac]

As lovely as #illridewithyou is can people at least wait to day to show the world how wonderfully liberal they are?

All thoughts and concern should be with the hostages and the families who gave lost loved ones are the minute.

 

Disagree Matt. This is exactly the time when people should be saying in the biggest possible terms that they don't lump in all Muslims with this bunch of hateful sociopaths.

 

Because it's exactly the time when it's so easy for the feeling to swing the other way which can only lead to more trouble.

[bovril]

I know it's not really related but reports that over 100 people have been killed in a school siege in Peshawar. 84 children dead. Absolutely atrocious.

 

(edited to say just saw Matt's post above - still too early in the morning for me obviously...)

[Guest MattP]

I know it's not really related but reports that over 100 people have been killed in a school siege in Peshawar. 84 children dead. Absolutely atrocious.

Horrifying. Children being killed en masse because they are going to school.

No words are apt to describe the sort of people who will do this.

[purpleronnie]

Horrifying. Children being killed en masse because they are going to school.

No words are apt to describe the sort of people who will do this.

Absolutely, it's hard to view them as human beings.

[leicsmac]

Horrifying. Children being killed en masse because they are going to school.

No words are apt to describe the sort of people who will do this.

 

The mind boggles. You're right, there are no words.

[Jon the Hat]

Horrifying. Children being killed en masse because they are going to school.

No words are apt to describe the sort of people who will do this.

 

The words are "legitimate targets"

[Merging Cultures]

My wife is properly depressed today. I can't understand how people can do these acts. Disgusting.

 

Three kids in Oz don't have their Mum this Christmas because of a crazy idiot. And many, many families in Pakistan have just lost their children. So angry today.

 

We need a general terrorism thread. Especially in the run up to Christmas. I think the world is going to sh!t.

[MC Prussian]

My wife is properly depressed today. I can't understand how people can do these acts. Disgusting.

 

Three kids in Oz don't have their Mum this Christmas because of a crazy idiot. And many, many families in Pakistan have just lost their children. So angry today.

 

We need a general terrorism thread. Especially in the run up to Christmas. I think the world is going to sh!t.

It's all acts performed on purpose - terror attacks and shootings in the pre-Christmas period are meant to be part of a series against classic Western/Christian symbols and holidays.

[Babylon]

According to The Guardian he converted to Sunni "last week"...!

There's a surprise. Never come across a single person who has either converted to another religion who isn't tapped in the head (I'm sure there are plenty) but so many seem to have mental issues.

[Merging Cultures]

It's all acts performed on purpose - terror attacks and shootings in the pre-Christmas period are meant to be part of a series against classic Western/Christian symbols and holidays.

That was my point.

I have a feeling this year is going to be particularly bad.

[ADK]

To be honest we obsess over terrorism a bit. Best way to defeat terrorism is to refuse to be terrorised.

[Guest MattP]

That was my point.

I have a feeling this year is going to be particularly bad.

 

Whatever this year is, it'll be probably be far better than anything we see in the future so try to enjoy it, as you've said, the World is going to shit and these things we are dealing with are not going to go away in our lifetimes.

 

The disturbing thing about this Sydney incident is the number of people making excuses for him, some even despite calling he mentally incapable then blaming western policy in the middle east etc. There is no appeasement to evil, didn't we learn this in the 1930s?

[Guest MattP]

Looks like he full sheet was.

 

• 13 convictions for harassment.
• 50 charges for sexual assault.
• 1 charge of accessory before the fact for murder.
• 1 charge of accessory after the fact for murder

 

You do have to wonder what sort of society allows these people to roam free, there are upto 100 'Australians' fighting in Syria for IS as well. Jihad is gonna be big down under.

[Jon the Hat]

Whatever this year is, it'll be probably be far better than anything we see in the future so try to enjoy it, as you've said, the World is going to shit and these things we are dealing with are not going to go away in our lifetimes.

 

The disturbing thing about this Sydney incident is the number of people making excuses for him, some even despite calling he mentally incapable then blaming western policy in the middle east etc. There is no appeasement to evil, didn't we learn this in the 1930s?

 

I haven't seen anyone making excuses for him Matt.  I have seen a few people saying he is not actually anything to do with ISIS or any other group, just a lone nutjob with mental health issues.

[leicsmac]

Whatever this year is, it'll be probably be far better than anything we see in the future so try to enjoy it, as you've said, the World is going to shit and these things we are dealing with are not going to go away in our lifetimes.

 

The disturbing thing about this Sydney incident is the number of people making excuses for him, some even despite calling he mentally incapable then blaming western policy in the middle east etc. There is no appeasement to evil, didn't we learn this in the 1930s?

 

This is not a major nation state with massive military power backing it and the ability to conquer other nations. This is a ragtag bunch of nutjobs backed by a few rich Gulf boys who want to make a big noise so the rest of the world is afraid of them.

 

They're evil, twisted sociopaths, and they need to be stopped wherever they are found. But they have neither the manpower nor the equipment - not even close - to make their dreams a reality. The nature and severity of the threat is totally different. 

[Guest MattP]

I haven't seen anyone making excuses for him Matt.  I have seen a few people saying he is not actually anything to do with ISIS or any other group, just a lone nutjob with mental health issues.

 

Have a read of the Indy, a couple of 'this was terrible but' comments and as usual the punters on the Guardian comments page trying to blame anyone but the actual man responsible for it, although the question really is if we are that certiain he had these issues (as some are now claiming) in a combination with the crimes he commited why on earth was he still walking the streets?

 

This is not a major nation state with massive military power backing it and the ability to conquer other nations. This is a ragtag bunch of nutjobs backed by a few rich Gulf boys who want to make a big noise so the rest of the world is afraid of them.

 

They're evil, twisted sociopaths, and they need to be stopped wherever they are found. But they have neither the manpower nor the equipment - not even close - to make their dreams a reality. The nature and severity of the threat is totally different. 

 

I think you are seriously underestimating the strength and capablities of these people. They don't want to run the whole World and that's impossible of course at the minute, but they certainly have the capabilitie to run a large part of the Middle East and cause chaos across the Western World while they do it.  When the shahādah is being held up in shop windows in Sydney you no that no part of the Western Liberal World is immune from this.

 

The Kurds are claming that ISIS have 200,000 men, that's a pretty big army when every single one is prepared to die for the cause. They already control a pretty large part of Iraq and Syria. They are in a good position, they know the West is sick of war and the most we are going to do is send in a few drones and fly by drops.

 

Don't know if you have ever read any of Daqib but they know they have taken to a target of trying to inspire lone wolf attacks across the globe in the last few months and I don't think this is something that is going away, he may have no connection to ISIS but he looks to have certainly been inspired by them using these tactics.

 

What's really worrying though is the impunity these people seem to have over us, have a read about Musa Cerantonio, he's considered by the CIA to one of the top two 'spiritual guides' for fighters who want to go and fight for ISIS and he's wandering around the streets of Melbourne today free to do and speak as he pleases. We've done the same with Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada and we have no idea just how many young men they converted to their cause.

 

This has to stop and I have no confidence that anyone is capable of doing it. We actually deserve what we get.

[Babylon]

You do have to wonder what sort of society allows these people to roam free, there are upto 100 'Australians' fighting in Syria for IS as well. Jihad is gonna be big down under.

The ones that try and look after the poorest in society oddly enough. Developed countries spend so much money looking after the ill, the poor, the old etc we can't afford to lock these wankers up. Unless you murder someone or don't pay your council take you'll probably keep walking free.  That's the state we're in.

[FoxesAreBlue]

To be honest we obsess over terrorism a bit. Best way to defeat terrorism is to refuse to be terrorised.

Tell that to Rigby's family.