Paris Shooting

[DB11]

It looks like a few Americans starting using it then people started using it ironically, hence the trend.

 

Whether it's a few Americans or a significant number of the population, it is an example of generalisations towards Muslims following the events in Paris. 

[Jordan]

Some real art and value HERE

A very sad day

Actual art and value, shamelessly collected and subsequently cheapened by content aggregator BuzzFeed.

[Babylon]

No I've seen any, can you show me some?

There might not be any on here considering most people are civilised, but it really doesn't take much to find. A quick search on twitter would probably be enough.

[MooseBreath]

You can find all sorts on Twitter and everything and anything you want somewhere on the Internet. Common sense should prevail, though, a few anonymous comments online doesn't mean there is a problem.

It would be a problem if such thoughts were held or expressed by any more than a tiny minority, or if anyone committed crimes in the name of such thoughts, but since neither of those are the case, it isn't a problem.

Meanwhile the real issues are ignored.

[Guest MattP]

Come on Matt, you're not blind. Pick any news comment thread/Twitter hashtag connected with this. Ah, DB11 had kindly obliged (and regardless of the veracity of that article that tag is trending pretty strongly). If you want me to quotemine I will of course do so because you're a good guy but I think the point really doesn't require it.

 

I think that keeping calm and carrying on is exactly what we should be doing - it unites the populace and renders these dickless pricks impotent and humiliates them, which is the opposite of what they want - division, fear and distrust. But, for the sake of argument, what would be an alternative that you'd suggest we do instead?

 

As I quote below I just did, what I found wasn't great from every side of the fence. Disagree it humilates them at all, get yourself back onto Twitter, the fanatics are absolutely loving it, far from impotent or humiliated, almost an attitude of we can do what we want.

 

What do you we do instead? The million dollar question, I've not got much time but I'l have a go.

 

The problem is we keep doing what you say, ignoring this and while we do that it's actually becoming a very long list now of people who have been killed for defending free speech across Europe, two Dutch politicians, the Danish cartoonist who was attacked with an axe and these 12 just across the top of my head.

 

In December three times someone drove into crowds of people in France shouting Arabic slogans, three times and President Hollande said 'these are single acts of madmen, ignore it etc' - then we get this a month later.

 

The point about these gunman doing this to divide us yesterday just doesnt stand up at all, they walked past many people, there were 100 people in that office they could have massacred but instead of doing that to cause havoc and 'divide the people' they specifically had the list of the 9 people who had offended Islam, it was about asserting quite simply that you should not offend the prophet Muhammed. It was absolutely absurd yesterday for anyone to claim this attack was nothing to do with Islam, This has everything to do with Islam and until we start discussing that and dealing with the problem rather than attempting to react to the problem we'll be in the same situation forever.

 

People talk about how they won't beat us but the fact is they almost already have, look how many of our NEWSpaper's refused to even print the Danish cartoons, Charlie Hebdo was pretty much the only European newspaper that stil would openly draw a picture of the prophet Muhammed. If I'm wrong there can you name me another one? If that's a victory for us then I'm not looking forward to defeat.

 

I had a think last night about what Jon the Hat said last night and you know what, he's actually right. Let's get every single European newspaper on the same day to print the cover of the next Charlie Hebdo cover, lets stop surrendering to these people and if they want the war then we have to take it on, we've be better off tackling this now than in 20 years, certainly better than ignoring it.

 

But as I say, this is just something we are going to have to get used to, in Europe, it's not going away, but whatever we do I think recent history tells us it has to be more than ignore it and wave a placard. Although as I said, when it comes down to it, the only people in the end who will be able to stop these people is the Islamic community themselves.

 

Of course ISIS have to be stopped as well, which is the biggest Islamist jihidist propaganda machine out there now, we need the Arab League to destroy it and if they can't or refuse to do so then at least the rest of the World knows where it stands and we then have to work out something else.

 

I tell you one thing, they won't defeated with paper, pens or trying not to offend.

 

There might not be any on here considering most people are civilised, but it really doesn't take much to find. A quick search on twitter would probably be enough.

 

Have the spent the last 15 minutes doing this, unfortunately shows far more hatred and justification for these acts from Muslims towards us than Islamphobia from us towards them. Both wrong of course and should be condenmed, there is certainly little sympathy towards the cartoonists. Shame.

 

RIP to the policeman killed this morning in Paris as well, sadly appears to be another 'Allah Akbar' shooting.

[fuchsntf]

Which council? The British Muslim Council?

They allegedly condemned the attack, alongside their French counterpart:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

CFCM, BMC, and all muslim movements throughout Europe, not use only twitter but should use all media platforms.

to start openly and heavily to condemn the taking of life in their names.

Will it help...doubt it, BUT might prevent some young would be radicals or youngsters with normal rebeluous intentions,influenced to take up arms. Even if its 2%,5%, or 20% chance of reducing this atrocious recruitment to these evil murdering organisations, it would be worth it.

NOT I repeat not just Islam/muslim terrorist organisations, but ALL these worlds disconted religous/discontented political movements/dictatoral movements let loose on the free world/free open countries.

Its imperative the moderate leaders and spokesman from these good intentioned movements, shout the loudest, no matter if they feel there is some truths in the reason for radical/terrorist movements.

The people who are calalously , innocently indescretely going about their everyday life being murdered, were/are also upset and disgruntled with their governments, or even their given lives lot.

So these councils should be leaning out the window and shouting alot more...........

They have a platform, ... because .joe, mohammed,Abduhl,Aaron, Deepa,Naanak, Stephan Bloggs, doesnt and dont know how.,

[Guest MattP]

Just watching the BBC now and this came up.

 

The only magazine in Britain who actually printed the Danish cartoons in 2006 was a now closed magazine calld 'The Liberal' - the put a link to them on their website - pretty much immediately afterwards they were visited by the Met Police and told that the police couldn't guarantee their safety if it was left up and they should seriously consider taking it down.

 

And that's a country that hasn't been beaten by this and can't lose apparently.

[hejammy]

Go fook yourself, don't tar every SIkh with your bias mind..........moron!!!!

I was talking about that particular guy and not all actually. Get your facts correct before you accuse

[Babylon]

You can find all sorts on Twitter and everything and anything you want somewhere on the Internet. Common sense should prevail, though, a few anonymous comments online doesn't mean there is a problem.

It would be a problem if such thoughts were held or expressed by any more than a tiny minority, or if anyone committed crimes in the name of such thoughts, but since neither of those are the case, it isn't a problem.

Meanwhile the real issues are ignored.

 

The problem is it's that tiny minority that are likely to be the sort of nutters than would actually do something in retaliation. The sort of thick idiots that do actually need shit pointing out to them.

 

"It would be a problem if such thoughts were held or expressed by any more than a tiny minority"

 

Are the views / actions of these extremists only a tiny minority also? Further up this page you seem to be saying there is a very real problem and people shouldn't make excuses / brush it under the carpet. So perhaps you shouldn't just brush those comments under the carpet as being unimportant because it's just a minority opinion.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Moosey, you've mentioned the 'real issue(s)' twice today.

 

Can you remind me what they are?

[Babylon]

Moosey, you've mentioned the 'real issue(s)' twice today.

 

Can you remind me what they are?

I think he means Brown people.

[hejammy]

Yet again, where has anyone on this thread said anything like every Muslim is a terrorist? Stop making things up.

Yet again, if you know about hate preachers why aren't don't the community do more to flush these people out the mosques?

Yet again, I'm not saying all Muslims know when a terrorist attack is on the way, but whenever one happens it comes out he's been radicalised by some nut job no one did anything about.

You've actually got some gall, coming on telling a Sikh straight away he can't have an opinion on Muslims (slightly racist no?) but then telling all all how wonderful you are.

First of all with regards to the Sikh guy I was making a point that he was being clearly biased by referring to Islam as a cancer in his previous post, not generalising all Sikhs, secondly I also said that some people think all Muslims are terrorists or have terrorist views.

If any normal Muslims were aware of a 'nut job' radicalising young men then believe me they'd be the first to try and put a stop to it, the same as any Caucasian, African, Indian etc. Why is it only a problem which normal Muslims should do something about? Everyone has a responsibility to irradicate the evil.

I think what some people fail to realise as we normal Muslims equally hate (dare I say hate more) these animals that use religion to commit atrocities, because of them we have also become scapegoats on occasions

[Guest MattP]

If any normal Muslims were aware of a 'nut job' radicalising young men then believe me they'd be the first to try and put a stop to it, the same as any Caucasian, African, Indian etc. Why is it only a problem which normal Muslims should do something about? Everyone has a responsibility to irradicate the evil.

 

Then (for the fourth time) how do you explain how it took so long for us to find out about what was happening in Hall Green etc in Birmingham and why radical preachers in London were completely left at their own free will to roam, shout and radicalise people who went on to commit terrible crimes?

[1993fox]

Muslims trying to pretend like they're the real victims of this attack is pathetic tbh - the posters who are trying to point them out as the biggest victims of yesterday need to quit their jargon before they keep insulting the families of the dead

[hejammy]

Then (for the fourth time) how do you explain how it took so long for us to find out about what was happening in Hall Green etc in Birmingham and why radical preachers in London were completely left at their own free will to roam, shout and radicalise people who went on to commit terrible crimes?

And possible for the 4th time I don't fooking know, again normal Muslims would not have a clue as to what is going on in these minority places. It seems you keep questioning if normal Muslims really do want to out there animals, mate your Barking up the wrong tree if you believe that

[1993fox]

First of all with regards to the Sikh guy I was making a point that he was being clearly biased by referring to Islam as a cancer in his previous post, not generalising all Sikhs, secondly I also said that some people think all Muslims are terrorists or have terrorist views.

If any normal Muslims were aware of a 'nut job' radicalising young men then believe me they'd be the first to try and put a stop to it, the same as any Caucasian, African, Indian etc. Why is it only a problem which normal Muslims should do something about? Everyone has a responsibility to irradicate the evil.

I think what some people fail to realise as we normal Muslims equally hate (dare I say hate more) these animals that use religion to commit atrocities, because of them we have also become scapegoats on occasions

 

I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. Some people do - just like how some Muslims see all non-Muslims as kaffir, mushrikeen, and rafidi.

[leicsmac]

As I quote below I just did, what I found wasn't great from every side of the fence. Disagree it humilates them at all, get yourself back onto Twitter, the fanatics are absolutely loving it, far from impotent or humiliated, almost an attitude of we can do what we want.

 

What do you we do instead? The million dollar question, I've not got much time but I'l have a go.

 

The problem is we keep doing what you say, ignoring this and while we do that it's actually becoming a very long list now of people who have been killed for defending free speech across Europe, two Dutch politicians, the Danish cartoonist who was attacked with an axe and these 12 just across the top of my head.

 

In December three times someone drove into crowds of people in France shouting Arabic slogans, three times and President Hollande said 'these are single acts of madmen, ignore it etc' - then we get this a month later.

 

The point about these gunman doing this to divide us yesterday just doesnt stand up at all, they walked past many people, there were 100 people in that office they could have massacred but instead of doing that to cause havoc and 'divide the people' they specifically had the list of the 9 people who had offended Islam, it was about asserting quite simply that you should not offend the prophet Muhammed. It was absolutely absurd yesterday for anyone to claim this attack was nothing to do with Islam, This has everything to do with Islam and until we start discussing that and dealing with the problem rather than attempting to react to the problem we'll be in the same situation forever.

 

People talk about how they won't beat us but the fact is they almost already have, look how many of our NEWSpaper's refused to even print the Danish cartoons, Charlie Hebdo was pretty much the only European newspaper that stil would openly draw a picture of the prophet Muhammed. If I'm wrong there can you name me another one? If that's a victory for us then I'm not looking forward to defeat.

 

I had a think last night about what Jon the Hat said last night and you know what, he's actually right. Let's get every single European newspaper on the same day to print the cover of the next Charlie Hebdo cover, lets stop surrendering to these people and if they want the war then we have to take it on, we've be better off tackling this now than in 20 years, certainly better than ignoring it.

 

But as I say, this is just something we are going to have to get used to, in Europe, it's not going away, but whatever we do I think recent history tells us it has to be more than ignore it and wave a placard. Although as I said, when it comes down to it, the only people in the end who will be able to stop these people is the Islamic community themselves.

 

Of course ISIS have to be stopped as well, which is the biggest Islamist jihidist propaganda machine out there now, we need the Arab League to destroy it and if they can't or refuse to do so then at least the rest of the World knows where it stands and we then have to work out something else.

 

I tell you one thing, they won't defeated with paper, pens or trying not to offend.

 

 

Have the spent the last 15 minutes doing this, unfortunately shows far more hatred and justification for these acts from Muslims towards us than Islamphobia from us towards them. Both wrong of course and should be condenmed, there is certainly little sympathy towards the cartoonists. Shame.

 

RIP to the policeman killed this morning in Paris as well, sadly appears to be another 'Allah Akbar' shooting.

 

Thanks for taking the time for that - it's well thought out. 

 

Of course the fanatics are going to love the incident itself, it satisfies their small minds. They won't however, love it when the world continues to laugh at them and decides it can print whatever it damn well wants.

 

The assault was definitely targetted, but that's not my point. My point is that the whole thing is designed to try and make people afraid, to divide us, to make people tar all Muslims with the same brush and push even more moderate ones into the arms of the extremists, giving them the war they want. I also agree it's totally about Islam (or their twisted version thereof) and that it is a real, tangible, massive problem.

 

The papers should absolutely publish the cartoons, and they should keep doing it. Every single one of them in every single paper. That's how this is won - by showing them we aren't afraid, no matter how many people who are indebted to free speech they kill, there will never conquer it.

 

Which brings me to my point. This is an ideological war, and I disagree with you saying it will not be won with paper or pens - it will be won with words. This isn't a fight between nation states representing an idea (ISIS aside, which does need to be destroyed militarily but that's only one facet of the problem)...this is a fight against an idea that is dotted around the globe, small in number, but widespread. You can't fight an idea like that with bullets and bombs - not on a large scale, anyway...the enemy is invisible. You've got to show them that you're not afraid, that they are the real minority, and that their hateful views will never become the law of the land in the UK or any other country that values freedom of speech. It takes words to do that. Make them feel small, pitied, and alone. And keep on what we're doing now - when they raise their hateful head above the parapet, remove them.

 

And yes, as I have said before, the Muslim community has a big part to play in all of that too.

[Guest MattP]

Muslims trying to pretend like they're the real victims of this attack is pathetic tbh - the posters who are trying to point them out as the biggest victims of yesterday need to quit their jargon before they keep insulting the families of the dead

 

There are many in the left-wing media quite happy to oblige that they are.

[hejammy]

Muslims trying to pretend like they're the real victims of this attack is pathetic tbh - the posters who are trying to point them out as the biggest victims of yesterday need to quit their jargon before they keep insulting the families of the dead

Yes my posts clearly show I'm trying to be a victim...

[1993fox]

Yes my posts clearly show I'm trying to be a victim...

 

Yeah pal cos you're the only Muslim in the world

[Guest MattP]

And possible for the 4th time I don't fooking know, again normal Muslims would not have a clue as to what is going on in these minority places. It seems you keep questioning if normal Muslims really do want to out there animals, mate your Barking up the wrong tree if you believe that

 

Minority places? Hamza was on the fcuking front page of the newspapers, every person in the country knew what he was preaching in Hyde Park and he remained there for ten years as no one would do anything about it.

 

In Hall Green we had 300 kids chanting in an assembly 'Who is going to hell? The Homosexuals" and you are telling me no one knew about it?

 

I give up, we've got no chance.

[Babylon]

Then (for the fourth time) how do you explain how it took so long for us to find out about what was happening in Hall Green etc in Birmingham and why radical preachers in London were completely left at their own free will to roam, shout and radicalise people who went on to commit terrible crimes?

Because people ignored them, just as moosebreath above wants to ignore white people on the internet talking a load of shit about muslims. People just look at them as a stupid minority talking a load of shit, 99.9999999% of whom will never do anything and just continue to talk shit.

 

No "tiny minority" should be ignored, because as we've seen it can grow.

[1993fox]

P.S. regarding this 'minority' hullabaloo, here's an interesting watch for your lunch breaks

 

[hejammy]

Minority places? Hamza was on the fcuking front page of the newspapers, every person in the country knew what he was preaching in Hyde Park and he remained there for ten years as no one would do anything about it.

In Hall Green we had 300 kids chanting in an assembly 'Who is going to hell? The Homosexuals" and you are telling me no one knew about it?

I give up, we've got no chance.

Yes and there were plenty of Muslims opposing his views, condemning his views, and demonstrating against him, the government just needs to get him out of the country, same with the hall green school issues.

If you think that I'm gonna go out of my way to go to every March and become some kind of vigilante then you're having a laugh mate! I'll condemn these idiots all day long, but I ain't spending half of my life trying to appease other people by becoming an 'extremist against the extremist'

[hejammy]

Yeah pal cos you're the only Muslim in the world

So your post wasn't in direct reference to my posts then? Bloody hell what a coincidence.

Your posts are quite frankly pretty pathetic