Guest MattP Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Al Qaeda had its bollocks cut off pretty soon after it really pissed the West off, the same would happen to ISIS. They don't have the money or manpower, let alone the hardware to combat Israels army, let alone any of the bigger Western nations if it really came to it. The only reason they still control the areas they do is because the nations drumming up action against them are worried about the political fallout of getting into another ME conflict. I'm not in any way suggesting that we look away - I've said that often enough too. I'm suggesting a targetted response based on what they're doing, rather than a blanket condemnation that could very well give them the war they wanted in the first place. Too many people want this to escalate, or think it's inevitable that it will which is basically the same thing. Goodness only knows why. Korea is reasonable enough - people just getting on with their lives in spite of and not giving a shite about a psychopathic rabble that are all talk and occasional trousers very close. And this bunch of ideological nutjobs have nukes. But we aren't doing anything about ISIS, the reason Al-Queda on the ground was killed was because the World went in and did, don't expect ISIS to go anywhere anytime soon as we've made a token effort to drop a few drones while they kill and enslaved anyone who comes in there path. You keep saying you aren't saying we look away, then after you remind us effectively tell us to look away. Why wouldn't you want a blanket condemnation on this sort of behaviour? That makes no sense, surely most Muslims would want that as much as we would? I wouldn't worry about the North mate, they know South Korea won't look away if they ever tried something. Wow, just wow! Comparing modern day Muslims to the Jews during the Nazi regime etc. What planet is this guy living on and how the hell did he even get to be in the Sky studios? They need to have a word with themselves here, allowing him a platform to spout sh1te like that. I'm only half way through so far though. EDIT: Douglas Murray As I say, it's worry this man is the head of a public funded Islamic body, I will be checking back in a week or and fully expected the moderate members to have removed him. Douglas is great, always one of my favourites when I hear him speak.
leicsmac Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 But we aren't doing anything about ISIS, the reason Al-Queda on the ground was killed was because the World went in and did, don't expect ISIS to go anywhere anytime soon as we've made a token effort to drop a few drones while they kill and enslaved anyone who comes in there path. You keep saying you aren't saying we look away, then after you remind us effectively tell us to look away. Why wouldn't you want a blanket condemnation on this sort of behaviour? That makes no sense, surely most Muslims would want that as much as we would? I wouldn't worry about the North mate, they know South Korea won't look away if they ever tried something. Hopefully the powers that be will pull their fingers out long enough to deal with ISIS sooner rather than later. I certainly agree that that is the one situation where a big scale military operation is required. Perhaps I should add a little more clarity to my position then. I'm saying the people who perpetrate these acts should be condemned in the harshest possible terms. They should be hunted down from whatever holes they hide in and brought back to face justice - or to see just how ridiculous their idea of meeting 72 virgins in Paradise really is. But it should be them - and only them who suffers as a result of their actions, rather than the rest of the Muslim population. That is what I mean by a targetted response. We can't go at this like a bull at a gate. It serves no useful purpose and will cause things to escalate. And, no, I don't think that's a inevitability. I can actually draw some parallels between what we experience now and the whole North/South thing here. The South had to live with bomb attacks, random commando gunman raids, assassination squads breaking into the Blue House to try and kill the current President for years. And that on top of a whole plethora of threats and attempted intimidation that persists to this day. And yet there was never open war, just restraint and targetted response, and now most South Koreans just tune it out because they know the threats are getting more and more empty.
Guest MattP Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 No worries, I don't think anyone wants to target the Muslim community as a whole. But certainly can't continue to look away though to the Mosques, Preachers and Bodies that promote so much hate anymore. This simply has to stop, whether it puts us in contradiction with the Human Rights Act or not, these people cannot be allowed to use our tolerance against us. It's gone on for more than long enough. As I posted earlier the only magazine in Britain that dared show the Prophet Muhammed pictures were told by police to think about taking them down or they couldn't guarantee protection. You don't want to strike fear into people, but it is about time a lot of people realised just how much free speech is under threat here and religion should be no barrier to that. When you think about it ever since the Rushdie affair people have gone out of their way to not offend Muslims. Muslims on the whole (see the poll I posted yeterday) simply don't seem to back us on this with regards to free speech, as Douglas Murray said if someone had shot all the Private Eye staff because of their Christmas cartoon I bet you wouldn't find a single person who would said anything along the lines of 'I feel sorry for them but well they shouldn't have printed it' - let alone see it as regular and common phrase and see a bloke who is the head of a public body dragged up on Sky News to say it. I think when the dust settles the question will yet again arise as to whether Islam is compatible with Western liberal values? Hejammy - What would your opinion be if the papers decided to picture Muhammed kissing a man in a cartoon? Do you believe it would be acceptable? Would you support their right to print it?
1993fox Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Also - for all you pseudo left-wing nutjobs, I suggest you have a look at this page: https://www.facebook.com/MPACUK1Ummah?ref=ts&fref=ts Have a look at the response of 'the moderate Muslims of the WestTM' to people being killed over a bunch of cartoons. All I can say is thank **** I've left the West if these are what we call 'moderate Muslims'
purpleronnie Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Also - for all you pseudo left-wing nutjobs, I suggest you have a look at this page: https://www.facebook.com/MPACUK1Ummah?ref=ts&fref=ts Have a look at the response of 'the moderate Muslims of the WestTM' to people being killed over a bunch of cartoons. All I can say is thank **** I've left the West if these are what we call 'moderate Muslims' Thank's for your continued open minded responses.
Guest MattP Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Also - for all you pseudo left-wing nutjobs, I suggest you have a look at this page: https://www.facebook.com/MPACUK1Ummah?ref=ts&fref=ts Have a look at the response of 'the moderate Muslims of the WestTM' to people being killed over a bunch of cartoons. All I can say is thank **** I've left the West if these are what we call 'moderate Muslims' What lovely people. (This is a straight copy and paste as well, not one person was prepared to speak up for freedom of speech or condemn this attack on this page) Zakir Ali The free, fair and "balanced" media didn't seem that "balanced" putting up 3 plus the presenter against Asghar! Well done Asghar! Like · Reply · 19 · 1 hr · Edited Naila Malik Hats off to the one spokesman of Islam.....he outnumbered them... Like · Reply · 10 · 1 hr Raza Nadim Well spoken Asghar Bukhari Like · Reply · 9 · 1 hr Haj Naz Good on you brother Asghar Like · Reply · 3 · 1 hr Jawad Mahmood BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAPPP!!!!!! Gwan Asghar Bukhari! Grill them fools on their own show. But just one point maybe you could've made was, that the mockery of our beloved Prophet S.A.W. is strictly prohibited in islam, so muslims will obviously be outraged. And what that zionist terrorist-funding douglas guy said showing and blaspheming about christianity is very wrong. I condemn that very strongly! And I stand by my words! No religion should be mocked with blasphemous content period! And with all this aside, douglas looks like a queer meth fiend . But you told them fools Asghar Bukhari! 1 love! Like · Reply · 3 · 44 mins Miah Don ****ing racist **** go suck Israeli cock like your whore mother you ****ing cum stain Like · Reply · 2 · 1 hr Arfan Khalid Yasir Ali Like · Reply · 1 min Amjad Khan Dirty kufs fuel of hellfire. Respek asghar. Like · Reply · 6 mins Saleem A Chaudhry If u insult religion then face the consequences....we as muslimine not to do then who gave you rights.... Free speech or spy to insulting others religion.... Face book is evidence all over world? Like · Reply · 22 mins · Edited Maria Naveed I just want to ask from those what would you do if someone draw some cartoon of family member and put it on bus stop with name , address, relation. What would you feel? Even if a child draw some offensive cartoon , v tell them that's bad manners. Adults are big enough to know right and wrong. What causes trouble when they don't care. Like · Reply · 31 mins Naila Malik Ends justified the means...but they truly deserved more brutal punishment...... Like · Reply · 1 hr Thank's for your continued open minded responses. Keep paying your taxes to fund these organisations and look away Ron. Ignore it, it never happened. No questions, they are all with us. It's nothing to do with Islam.
1993fox Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Thank's for your continued open minded responses. Thanks* No probs pal I'm obliged Keep pretending there are plenty of moderate Muslims out there who respect the Western way of life. Ignorance is bliss and that
1993fox Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Oh and just a bit of context - 'kuf' is short for the Arabic word 'kuffar' (root word of kafir i.e. outsider, like it was used in South Africa) which is used by Muslims to describe non-Muslims. Add kuffar to other terms such as mushrikeen and rafidi (basically Arabic words used for those who 'reject' Islam) and it's easy to see Islam is developed with a very explicit tone of 'us vs. them (i.e. non-Muslims)'
hejammy Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Thank's for your continued open minded responses. Oh dear there really is no hope for some people. 1993fox way of thinking *let me Google Muslims support terrorism and post the first link* No doubt mate that there are lots of sites and postings like that on social media, however let's try something, perhaps Google 'Muslims condemn terror attacks' and wahay presto it's another type of link all together. Keep googling your links 1993fox cause your open-mindedness and intelligence really shines through Thanks* No probs pal I'm obliged Keep pretending there are plenty of moderate Muslims out there who respect the Western way of life. Ignorance is bliss and that This.... Is laughable
1993fox Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Oh dear there really is no hope for some people. 1993fox way of thinking *let me Google Muslims support terrorism and post the first link* No doubt mate that there are lots of sites and postings like that on social media, however let's try something, perhaps Google 'Muslims condemn terror attacks' and wahay presto it's another type of link all together. Keep googling your links 1993fox cause your open-mindedness and intelligence really shines through Mate, that's MPACUK. Created and charitably funded for by Brit Muslims to be a voice against 'Islamophobia' (I wonder if Sikhs and Christians could have that privilege in Pakistan and Iraq!) Not so much of an open mind when people criticize the mindsets of members of your religion eh? What next, commission a jihadi to bomb a Gurudwara because I'm highlighting the dangers of your religion?
Guest MattP Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Oh dear there really is no hope for some people. 1993fox way of thinking *let me Google Muslims support terrorism and post the first link* No he didn't at all, he saw the body that was on skynews and went onto their Facebook page. That page posted is the British Muslim Public Affairs Commitee. Can you answer my question please I asked earlier? Hejammy - What would your opinion be if the papers decided to picture Muhammed kissing a man in a cartoon? Do you believe it would be acceptable? Would you support their right to print it?
hejammy Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 No worries, I don't think anyone wants to target the Muslim community as a whole. But certainly can't continue to look away though to the Mosques, Preachers and Bodies that promote so much hate anymore. This simply has to stop, whether it puts us in contradiction with the Human Rights Act or not, these people cannot be allowed to use our tolerance against us. It's gone on for more than long enough. As I posted earlier the only magazine in Britain that dared show the Prophet Muhammed pictures were told by police to think about taking them down or they couldn't guarantee protection. You don't want to strike fear into people, but it is about time a lot of people realised just how much free speech is under threat here and religion should be no barrier to that. When you think about it ever since the Rushdie affair people have gone out of their way to not offend Muslims. Muslims on the whole (see the poll I posted yeterday) simply don't seem to back us on this with regards to free speech, as Douglas Murray said if someone had shot all the Private Eye staff because of their Christmas cartoon I bet you wouldn't find a single person who would said anything along the lines of 'I feel sorry for them but well they shouldn't have printed it' - let alone see it as regular and common phrase and see a bloke who is the head of a public body dragged up on Sky News to say it. I think when the dust settles the question will yet again arise as to whether Islam is compatible with Western liberal values? Hejammy - What would your opinion be if the papers decided to picture Muhammed kissing a man in a cartoon? Do you believe it would be acceptable? Would you support their right to print it? Would I be happy about it? Of course I wouldn't be happy because it's taking the piss out of someone who I follow, would you be happy if someone did that of a picture of your dad or son or someone whom you respected? Would I care about it really though? No - people should be able to print, write and say what they want. It wouldn't effect my life at all, I'd go about my life as usual.
Guest MattP Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Would I be happy about it? Of course I wouldn't be happy because it's taking the piss out of someone who I follow, would you be happy if someone did that of a picture of your dad or son or someone whom you respected? Would I care about it really though? No - people should be able to print, write and say what they want. It wouldn't effect my life at all, I'd go about my life as usual. Thank you.
Matt Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Religion strikes again. I've said it once and sadly i'll say it many, many more times no doubt. Religion - The root of all evil.
1993fox Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 where's hejammy when you tell him about MPACUK or the exclusionary aspects of islam? you there pal?
Dr The Singh Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Yes Dr bandwagon I'm very ashamed of myself... Mate you just caught out to be a lying piece of shit. You talk about bandwagon.......................you should look at yourself and biased views!!
1993fox Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Religion strikes again. I've said it once and sadly i'll say it many, many more times no doubt. Religion - The root of all evil. Not all religions.
hejammy Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Mate you just caught out to be a lying piece of shit. You talk about bandwagon.......................you should look at yourself and biased views!! Which of my views are biased then?The part where I say these attacks are atrocious, evil and I hope they rot? Or the part where I say not every Muslim has terrorist views?
Matt Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Not all religions. ANY religion is brainwashing imo. For example, I went to a catholic christening the other week, some of the things being preached were quite sickening, and I cringe at some of the things the kids are being brainwashed into believing. Ok it's a choice whether you believe or not but it's quite easy to tell a kid what to believe.
Webbo Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 ANY religion is brainwashing imo. For example, I went to a catholic christening the other week, some of the things being preached were quite sickening, and I cringe at some of the things the kids are being brainwashed into believing. Ok it's a choice whether you believe or not but it's quite easy to tell a kid what to believe. Would you tell your kids not to kick old ladies or would that be brainwashing?
hejammy Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 where's hejammy when you tell him about MPACUK or the exclusionary aspects of islam? you there pal? OK let's talk about this then as you finally said something remotely intelligent, MPACUK are one organisation out of 100s of Muslim organisations who have bordering extremist views, I no way support there views or actions. Do you follow mehdi Hassan on Twitter? Read his tweets, another moderate Muslim which you choose to ignore because frankly he's too normal to talk about to make people believe your ignorant views. Exclusionary aspects of Islam, here I can only talk about my life and the life of my friends and family, none of whom feel like they are excluding themselves from Western society, I have friends from all different races, I respect their views and beliefs, I follow a football team I love and am a season ticket holder, I don't choose to sit in an all Muslim part of the stadium or neither would I wish to do so. Now let's take a look at your life? Are there any parts of your religion which make you exclude yourself from Western civilisation? Wait you probably don't want to talk about yourself..why should you defend yourself right?
Matt Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Would you tell your kids not to kick old ladies or would that be brainwashing? No but that's bring your kids up well. That is totally different to telling them fairy tales, ramming it down their necks and forcing beliefs upon them.
Dr The Singh Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 Which of my views are biased then? The part where I say these attacks are atrocious, evil and I hope they rot? Or the part where I say not every Muslim has terrorist views? So your admitting your a liar..........good on you, that's a first step!!!
hejammy Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 So your admitting your a liar..........good on you, that's a first step!!! Wait I had to read my post a few times, I'm pretty sure I don't admit to being a liar? Perhaps the doctor is seeing something different? Idiot...
Webbo Posted 8 January 2015 Posted 8 January 2015 No but that's bring your kids up well. That is totally different to telling them fairy tales, ramming it down their necks and forcing beliefs upon them. Will you force your anti religious views on your children?
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