davieG Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 A new report by the Muslim Council of Britain has shed light on the dramatic population changes in the UK over the past decade. Between 2001 and 2011 the number of Muslims in Britain increased from 1.6 million to 2.7 million and a large part of that 68 per cent increase was made up of children born here. A third of Britain's Muslims in 2011 were 15 or under and overall the number of Muslim children attending schools in England and Wales has almost doubled to a point where one in 12 schoolchildren is Muslim. But one of the most shocking finds in the report was that 46 per cent of British Muslims lived in some of the most deprived council wards in the country. Ibrahim Mogra, a Leicester Imam who is assistant secretary general for the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "It's very concerning but I think it's related to the nature of immigration. Many Muslims were brought here after the Second World War to work in mills and other industries. "But these communities, although they still lag behind, are becoming better educated and more integrated." Mr Mogra said it was important that Muslim communities were viewed as an asset and not a danger. He said: "We have a high percentage of Muslims who are under the age of 16 and are benefiting from an English education now. We should see them as an asset for our country and not see them as a danger or a burden. "I think it's good to have a large number of young people raised as Muslims with a spiritual and religious dimension in their lives." Nationally, 4.8 per cent of British people completing the census in 2011 were described as Muslim, while in Leicester the Muslim community make up 18.6 per cent of the population. In Leicester, where just under 51 per cent of the population is white and a third of people were born outside the UK, the city has earned a reputation for diversity. Manzoor Moghul, who is chairman of the Muslim Forum think tank, said Leicester was more united than people judged. He said: "I think that generally the Muslim community fits in very well in Leicestershire. "There are pockets in the city where Muslims are predominant and because of their dress code they stand out and there seems to be a lack of cohesion. "They don't seem to be able to blend in and I think that's been a common point of criticism. "But the younger generation, by and large, blend extremely well and are very much a part of life in the city and county. "Muslim parents are mostly keen to see their children educated and get on in life in a manner that will give them greater prosperity and an understanding of where they live." He said one urgent change he wanted to see was a halt to the growth of faith schools. He would rather Muslim parents sent their children to madrasas to learn about their religion and enrolled them in mainstream schools. He said: "Faith schools are divisive and promote isolation. "It's not conducive to a harmonious society and with free schools, academies and faith schools going their own way we desperately need a government with the courage to reel them back in." The Muslim Council of Britain report also focused on isolation among Muslim communities. It showed that about 6 per cent of Muslims struggled to speak English. And while 80 per cent of British women aged 25 to 49 had jobs, the figure for women was only 57 per cent in Muslim communities, where cultural norms are different. But the assistant city mayor for communities, Manjula Sood, said Leicester was generally ahead of the game when it came to integration. Manjula worked as a teacher in the city from 1973 onwards, when many Asians moved here and community leaders first began working towards making Leicester a diverse but united society. She said: "In Leicester, we are unique. Faiths have worked together for a long time and, while there are issues, community cohesion is great. "We've got community leaders who engage in dialogue, our bishop ensures religions work together and the city council reaches out to new communities." Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Muslims-Britain-today-facts-figures/story-26020331-detail/story.html#ixzz3RcZRVX64 Follow us: @Leicester_Merc on Twitter | leicestermercury on Facebook Agree with the bold bit I can't see any justification for these schools.
Merging Cultures Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Obviously, I've not lived in Leicester for sometime, I don't know if this negates my opinion, but I do visit my family occasionally. However, in my opinion, I enjoyed growing up in a diverse City. I believe it stimulated my interest in working abroad and wanting to understand other cultures. Having lived in much more segregated places (Baltimore had distinct white and black neighbourhoods, and I have always lived apart from the majority in Africa), I do miss the integration I experienced at school in Leicester. Blue tinted glasses probably!!
ramboacdc Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Agree with the bold bit I can't see any justification for these schools. i agree too. learning religion is fine but closing it off is not the best. however you could argue a "C of E primary school" or "catholic school" are doing the same. not fair to have 1 rule for one and 1 for another.
Mike Oxlong Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 If you're going to have faith schools centred on belief systems you might as well base it on football as religion. The LCFC school would be called the "Keep the Faith School" Plenty of playground scraps too between "The Pearsonites" and "The Haters"
ADK Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Faith schools are a bad idea whether it be catholic, c of e or Islamic.
Mike Oxlong Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Girl with a lisp said she wanted to sit on my faith.
Alf Bentley Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Agree with the bold bit I can't see any justification for these schools. Agreed. I think that faith schools should not be permitted within the standard education system. If parents want to educate / indoctrinate their children into their way of thinking, they should do it in their spare time. The standard education system should educate children in all the significant belief systems that exist: Christian, atheist/humanist, Muslim, socialist, conservative, Sikh, Hindu, determinist, existentialist ... but, above all, they should teach them to think for themselves and to view themselves as individuals who are part of a wider society. Imagine the outrage if people set up atheist, Communist or Fascist schools and tried to indoctrinate their children into those ways of thinking!
Webbo Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Faith schools in general aren't a problem. My children went to a Cof E primary where around a third of the kids were of Indian descent, mainly Hindu I'd guess. None of my children are even slightly religious, they haven't been brainwashed into anything. There have been some problems with some Muslim schools but that's why we have school inspectors.
Alf Bentley Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Faith schools in general aren't a problem. My children went to a Cof E primary where around a third of the kids were of Indian descent, mainly Hindu I'd guess. None of my children are even slightly religious, they haven't been brainwashed into anything. There have been some problems with some Muslim schools but that's why we have school inspectors. Point taken, Webbo. There are obviously different degrees of indoctrination - and CofE will probably be among the mildest. I attended a CofE primary myself, despite my parents being atheists / lapsed Catholics (it was the only village school). It didn't do me great harm or have any great influence over my beliefs...though Christianity was taught as unquestioned fact, and no alternatives were examined. That would probably not be permitted under the curriculum now. I just think that schools - and parents - should be teaching children to open their minds and question things by exposing them to different ideas on an equal footing.
Guest MattP Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 He's right, but we're miles past the time where we had any chance of stopping this now. Faith schools and especially Islamic ones are only going to increase and increase substantially in our society. The demand is massive.
The Doctor Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 I'd guess when talking faith schools they'd mean the actual closed off to all but one faith private schools rather than the local village one that is nominally cofe but not really.
Webbo Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 The junior school that went to was very leftwing, at assembly we had anti war lectures and we sang protest songs rather than hymns. a few of the teachers were hippies. There's more than one type of indoctrination, in general though I think parents have far more influence than school.
Guest MattP Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 I'd guess when talking faith schools they'd mean the actual closed off to all but one faith private schools rather than the local village one that is nominally cofe but not really. Yeah but we have to pretend they are the same in 2015 even if deep down we know they aren't. The junior school that went to was very leftwing, at assembly we had anti war lectures and we sang protest songs rather than hymns. a few of the teachers were hippies. There's more than one type of indoctrination, in general though I think parents have far more influence than school. Amnesty International once did am assembly at Glenfield when I wast there.
Mike Oxlong Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 1. This is a more rational thing to worship than anything taught at a faith school. 2. It isn't as easy to dumb down a thread as it used to be. Shame! 3. I know mods do a a fantastic job, give up their own time for the good of the forum and probably get plenty of hassle as well but if the above picture is again deleted an explanation would be appreciated.
Alf Bentley Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 He's right, but we're miles past the time where we had any chance of stopping this now. Faith schools and especially Islamic ones are only going to increase and increase substantially in our society. The demand is massive. Aren't you being a bit defeatist? If the political will and electoral support were there, parliament could introduce legislation along French lines. Although stats are imprecise, France has a lot more Muslims than the UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#Statistics), yet it has a secular education system: http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2013/09/religion-and-education-england-and-france. I don't agree with banning moderate religious or other symbols in schools, but agree with the ban on teachers/schools proselytizing for religions. Where it gets complicated is that, in England, faith schools are only partly about faith. They're partly about the middle-classes gaining access to "better schools" with a "better class of pupil", as they see it. There's a faith school near us and I know 6 kids who go there - NONE of the parents are religious at all; they've just attended church a few times, got a letter from the vicar and "got ahead". The school admissions policy is interesting. After children in care (1) and those with siblings at the school (2), priority goes to: Children whose parents have worked at the school for a year (3); children with a letter confirming regular attendance at CofE-type churches (4); children with a letter confirming attendance at any other faith-based place of worship (5); any other kids (6). http://www.st-john.leicester.sch.uk/images/StJohns/PDF/AdmissionsPolicy2015to2016.pdf So, for this over-subscribed school, anyone whose beliefs are based on ANY faith gets priority over anyone whose beliefs are based on reason. Christians do get priority over other faiths....but are not as high priority as people employed by the school. Faith schools are mainly about segregation of one sort or another - a bad thing. I agree that parents probably have more influence than schools long-term, but schools can and should open the minds of children, including where their parents are indoctrinating them at home. My CofE schooling was pretty mild, but I did have the counter-balance of my parents' atheist beliefs and handed-down Catholic values. I was certainly never taught anything about any other religion. I presume that faith schools within the state system have to mention other belief systems now, but I wonder how thoroughly they do it compared to their preferred brainwashing? Indoctrinating children stinks! p.s. Could I just agree with Mike Oxlong? A most enjoyable contribution!
Webbo Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 I think if parents want to send their kids to a faith based school they should be allowed to. I don't think it's the job of the state to tell people what to think. If some parents wanted to start up an atheist school I wouldn't have a problem with that either.
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 i agree too. learning religion is fine but closing it off is not the best. however you could argue a "C of E primary school" or "catholic school" are doing the same. not fair to have 1 rule for one and 1 for another. I went to a C of E primary - we had several Muslims, Sikhs, Catholics and Jehova's Witnesses. RE covered all religions and all non-Christians were excused from reading hymns (which from what I remember, was for about 10 minutes once a week) Other than that there was no mention of religion, it was just a normal school. It'd be interesting to see statistics on the curriculum of these private dedicated faith schools though, I read some pretty damning stuff on one of the Islamic ones recently where hardly anything but Qu'ran was studied. Can't remember which school it was and don't have any source to hand, so take that with a pinch of bullshit
Head Honcho Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 So aren't we allowed to post negative opinions of muslims now without getting them deleted?
Guest MattP Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Why was Head Honchos post deleted? If we seriously are even going to go down that route in foxestalk GC I won't be hanging around To bother.
Buce Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Why was Head Honchos post deleted? If we seriously are even going to go down that route in foxestalk GC I won't be hanging around To bother. I'd have thought you'd at least wait to get an answer to your question.
shailen Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 Religions shouldn't segregate their followers from the rest of society. Part of education is learning different cultures and being able to adapt with different people. A lot of views people have are formed from the people around them, and when you're in a faith school you may get the wrong impressions because of ignorance. When people don't know about something, they form opinions based on the very little avenues of news they can get...ie/ politicians/media...etc.
Head Honcho Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 I'll try again. I was brought up in the Highfields and all of my friends were either Hindu Sikh West Indian or Italian...and then the Muslims arrived!
Buce Posted 13 February 2015 Posted 13 February 2015 I'll try again. I was brought up in the Highfields and all of my friends were either Hindu Sikh West Indian or Italian...and then the Muslims arrived! And what was the significance of that?
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.