The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[Alf Bentley]

The Bremain campaign have members from all the major parties and they all have different visions of the future. Pro Europe Labour will promise a different future to pro Europe Tories. It's a bit unfair to expect the brexit camp to promise one future when they come from different philosophies and so much of what might happen is out of their control.

 

 

It's true that different parties will offer different political visions. It's also true that there are no guarantees that the EU will remain the same in the future - politics may shift to the right or left across the continent.

 

Nobody expects detailed, budgeted policies from the Brexit folk.

 

But, like them or loathe them, we know what institutions, structures and treaties we'll be dealing with if we stay in the EU. We don't know what we'll be dealing with if we leave. Will Gove and Boris draw something up on the back of an envelope on the day after a Brexit vote? Cameron will be gone, presumably? The most that I can glean from comments by the Brexit people is that they don't favour a EEA/EFTA-type arrangement like Norway/Iceland, but would prefer to negotiate Swiss-style bilateral agreements with the EU, as well as with the US, China and other countries. I'm sure that's feasible (eventually) - and a deal would be in the interests of the other parties, too. But the EU, the US and China would all have a more powerful negotiating hand, as they're all much bigger than us. The EU and US might also not be favourably inclined towards us for disrupting the status quo. That's our right, but it comes with consequences. Yet the Brexit people seem to assume that we can easily negotiate a load of bilateral treaties on favourable terms, get rid of all that EU red tape/regulation and compete against the EU on more deregulated terms.......and the EU nations will just sit back, ignore their own self-interest and accept this!  

 

The uncertainties over what Brexit involves are on quite a different scale to the uncertainties implicit in staying in the EU. An equivalent would be for Yorkshire to announce that it was leaving the UK, would do a series of deals with the UK and other nations, rip up all the UK regulations and compete with the UK and other nations on favourable terms.....despite the rest of the UK and other nations saying they didn't want that to happen. Deals would be done eventually, but on what terms?

 

Brexit is starting to sound like an ill-defined car crash. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Don't give Yorkshire ideas! They'd bloody do that if offered to them!

[Webbo]

This uncertainty thing is overplayed. Whatever the brexit side promise the bremaimers will say is unrealistic. There are no certainties of what will happen if we stay in.

The worse that will happen is we'll be in the European free trade area.

[Alf Bentley]

I haven't heard it in context but on the face of it it's quite a shocking thing to say. I can't imagine how he thought it would help his argument.

 

 

Here's Boris' article in The Sun: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7095695/UK-and-America-can-better-friends-than-ever-Mr-Obama-if-we-LEAVE-the-EU-says-Boris-Johnson.html

And a response in the Indy, featuring a condemnation by Tory MP Nicholas Soames (Churchill's grandson): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-suggests-part-kenyan-obama-may-have-an-ancestral-dislike-of-britain-a6995826.html

 

Admittedly, he's carefully used the "some say" phrasing: "Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan President’s ancestral dislike of the British empire – of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender".

 

However, if someone wrote an article rhetorically addressed to me saying "some say you're a willy puller, Alf" without explicitly contesting their judgment, I'd assume they were implying that it might well be true.

[Webbo]

Reading it in that context it seems a reasonable thing to say. It seems to have been blown out of proportion.

[Robin JD Popley]

I've always been in favour of strengthening our common European ties, but the more I think about it, I'm not sure if I'm in favour of the Parliament.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

This uncertainty thing is overplayed. Whatever the brexit side promise the bremaimers will say is unrealistic. There are no certainties of what will happen if we stay in.

The worse that will happen is we'll be in the European free trade area.

Are you sure?

A Brexit could end up with the us trading with the EU, with pretty much everything the same as before but with us now on the outside so we still have to play to the rules but have no say.

[Alf Bentley]

Reading it in that context it seems a reasonable thing to say. It seems to have been blown out of proportion.

 

 

To me, the implication is that Obama is hypocritically ignoring British democratic needs because he has a historical resentment of the British empire due to his Dad having been Kenyan.

You can draw you own conclusions as to why Boris would want to draw attention to Obama's Kenyan connections - even though he grew up in the US with his white mother/grandparents (& a few years in Indonesia) and barely knew his father.

 

I'd assume that his pro-Remain comments are motivated by his perception of American interests, which it is his job to promote. They have nothing to do with his Kenyan Dad or any alleged hostility to the British empire. 

 

Likewise, I don't think Priti Patel favours Brexit because she has an ancestral hostility to the West or is influenced by a close bond with India or Uganda. I assume, from her political perspective (British Thatcherite), she sees Brexit as in her country's interests.

 

Oh, well. Agree to disagree!

[Webbo]

Are you sure?

A Brexit could end up with the us trading with the EU, with pretty much everything the same as before but with us now on the outside so we still have to play to the rules but have no say.

We have virtually no say anyway.

 

If we trade with the EU we'll have to meet EU standards but as 90% of businesses don't export to the EU we'll still be better off. Plus we can buy stuff from  countries outside of the EU without having to impose EU tariffs.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Some useful links on trade / tariffs if you're interested

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-main-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-multilateral-free-trade-agreements

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-Britain-exiting-staying-in-the-EU

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/tariffs/

http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs_2.htm

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-could-the-eu-canada-free-trade-deal-tell-us-about-brexit/

[Strokes]

I'm sure Obama does want us in the EU and bound to the TTIP agreement, they've worked damn hard on it and wouldn't want some two bit little englanders getting in the way.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Oh and if you haven't checked out this yet, please do (Remainers included)

www.voteleave.co.uk

[Rincewind]

This was my sister's reply to a post I made  on her  husband's Facebook page raising a couple of concerns about leaving. She is the director/owner of a small handmade furniture business in Workington employing half a dozen people or so all having roles and helping out each other if needed. So it is a happy workforce. You may agree or disagree with some of her points. But  she makes some which I have raised concern over on here but have been dismissed as rubbish. So this is coming from a business owner 'capitalist' if you like that has concerns about those worse off than herself. So it  is  possible to be compassionate and be successful in business. Compassion is not a 'lefty' thing as some  seem to think. It is a humane thing available to all.

 

 

You can disregard the human rights argument, that has nothing to do with the EU, it's the Council of Europe which the UK helped to set up just after the war that governs that. The UK has also led the way on many employment and discrimination laws. We introduced laws against sex and race discrimination back in the 1960's and 70's, before even joining the EU. All women in the UK had the vote in 1928 (rich and single women had it earlier) - The last EU member state to get round to it was Portugal in 1976. 

European legislation says that all employers must give 14 weeks maternity leave - that's exactly what Germany gives. France, the Netherlands and Spain generously give 16 weeks. The UK, however, gives 52 weeks. If we were planning on cutting back on maternity leave we could do that already, no need to leave the EU. 

If we look then at your other concern - free movement. You'll notice that it's mostly the big businesses that are telling us how good this is for us. From my perspective, with my own small business, I think it has been bad for us - and so does every other small business owner I've spoken to. I'm not talking about people's ability to holiday or retire in a sunny country, or tourists coming here, all that happened before the EU, no reason for it to end post Brexit. 

The main problem that I see with free movement is the negative impact on the labour market and the prospects of young people that it's had. It sounds wonderful in theory, people from all around Europe free to go to any country to work, but in practice it hasn't worked. Three big attractions of the UK are 1. Rate of pay - minimum wage is higher than skilled rates in many Eastern European countries, 2. Language - we speak English, the language taught in almost every school in Europe and 3. Welfare - agreed that this isn't normally the prime reason for coming, but does provide an attractive and generous safety net knowing that if the worst happens you will be looked after. Very few of our unemployed have the skills or language to travel to other countries to work, so the traffic is mostly one way.

Now the big companies think this is wonderful, they have a vast pool of cheap labour. Need an electrician? Forget employing somebody at £12 + an hour, just get a Pole at minimum wage. With such a large and cheap labour force wages are driven down and there's no need to bother training apprentices. We all know that the unemployment figures are total fiction as most of the “employed” are no longer on the unemployment register simply because they are on a zero hours contract, sanctioned or on some bogus training or work experience course, nothing to do with actually being in full employment. We are creating an “underclass”, the next generation who see no future, no hope, who may in despair drift into drugs, crime or whatever. 

The owners of the big businesses don't care as they live in their gated communities or private estates and their children go to public schools and have their internship lined up in their or their friend's company. All of us smaller business owners do care, we don't see these youngsters as “those plebs”, these are our children, grandchildren, neighbours' children etc. We're not just looking at the profit and loss account like them, we actually don't give a fig if it costs us a few quid more, we care about our neighbourhoods, society and the future for the children and the country.

 

 

I can  provide the Facebook page if you wish to reply poliely and constructively. The above may or not be my views on the EU. I am still not sure. I like playing it safe  and keeping the Status Quo. We have been a member for so long and it may take time to adjust. I am afraid of change if the truth be known.

[RobHawk]

We've got the Welsh assembly elections in May before the referendum and it presents an interesting conundrum which I hope others in Wales consider. If we vote out of the EU, which party would best protect Wales' interests and potentially look for Welsh independence? It's only going to be Plaid.

Interestingly enough, I've been leaning towards plaid policy's for a while, but the biggest issue being under current circumstances I wouldn't want Welsh Independence, but with a potential brexit on the horizon, I'm likely to be voting Plaid!

[BlueSi13]

"Maybe something like Norway" so still paying a shit load for the privilege.

 

 

As much as remainers like to use the Norway, Iceland and Switzerland examples as a stick to beat the Brexiters, don't you find it a little odd that none of those countries have any sort of desire to join the EU....despite apparently having such a raw deal?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I recognise the comments above as ones held by many people in this country, but to me what they indicate is our own failings and an inward looking protectionist nature that harms us. Yes, we want good well paid jobs for our young people - but if that's not happening, we also have to look closer to home for those reasons as well.

For example are we emphasising to our young people at an early age what an opportunity Europe is for them? Are we pushing foreign language skills enough? Are we teaching the right things in our schools that actually give our future workers a clear skills advantage in emerging areas of business at both home and abroad? Ok our Universities need to be funded, but is the move towards charging our kids huge fees for University and lumbering them with huge debt the right way to go about this or does this remove opportunity for many?

Ask yourself - would the vast majority of migrants come and stay here if there wasn't the opportunities to do so? One of the examples above was electricians, but this opportunity came about because we weren't producing enough skilled electricians (and similar professions) ourselves?

You should also consider that moving to a new country is by no means an easy thing to do, so if migrants couldn't get jobs that led to them being able to secure accommodation and a decent life for themselves (not at all easy these days), none would stay. Some claim these migrants take away opportunity for our own, but if our young can't block out this kind of competition on their home turf for these jobs - doesn't that suggest a failing in our education system?

The freedom of people to move shouldn't be feared - this happens as much internally in countries as it does across boarders, but no one would dare say to someone from Leicester they couldn't go and find a better opportunity for themselves in London - so why should the nature of a boarder change that if the individuals ultimate goal is the same?

The EU is a big opportunity for both individuals and businesses... So who's fault is it that not enough of our own people can take advantage of that?

[BlueSi13]

I recognise the comments above as ones held by many people in this country, but to me what they indicate is our own failings and an inward looking protectionist nature that harms us. Yes, we want good well paid jobs for our young people - but if that's not happening, we also have to look closer to home for those reasons as well.

For example are we emphasising to our young people at an early age what an opportunity Europe is for them? Are we pushing foreign language skills enough? Are we teaching the right things in our schools that actually give our future workers a clear skills advantage in emerging areas of business at both home and abroad? Ok our Universities need to be funded, but is the move towards charging our kids huge fees for University and lumbering them with huge debt the right way to go about this or does this remove opportunity for many?

Ask yourself - would the vast majority of migrants come and stay here if there wasn't the opportunities to do so? One of the examples above was electricians, but this opportunity came about because we weren't producing enough skilled electricians (and similar professions) ourselves?

You should also consider that moving to a new country is by no means an easy thing to do, so if migrants couldn't get jobs that led to them being able to secure accommodation and a decent life for themselves (not at all easy these days), none would stay. Some claim these migrants take away opportunity for our own, but if our young can't block out this kind of competition on their home turf for these jobs - doesn't that suggest a failing in our education system?

The freedom of people to move shouldn't be feared - this happens as much internally in countries as it does across boarders, but no one would dare say to someone from Leicester they couldn't go and find a better opportunity for themselves in London - so why should the nature of a boarder change that if the individuals ultimate goal is the same?

The EU is a big opportunity for both individuals and businesses... So who's fault is it that not enough of our own people can take advantage of that?

 

 

That was a long post but that immediately stood out.  Over centuries we have built a way of life and standard of living that is the envy of huge parts of the globe, and that way of life includes things like minimum levels of pay.  

 

If you're saying that our children, those that we should be ensuring a better future for than the one we had at their age should now engage in a race to the bottom to fight against competition brought about by unlimited and unwanted immigration from Europe's poor, then I honestly think you're wrong and misguided.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

That was a long post but that immediately stood out.  Over centuries we have built a way of life and standard of living that is the envy of huge parts of the globe, and that way of life includes things like minimum levels of pay.  

 

If you're saying that our children, those that we should be ensuring a better future for than the one we had at their age should now engage in a race to the bottom to fight against competition brought about by unlimited and unwanted immigration from Europe's poor, then I honestly think you're wrong and misguided.

Not at all - i'm asking why should a nation such as ours be looking at the bottom for our kids in the first place? Shouldn't we be aiming higher than what will always be the low paid retail / service sector and ensuring our kids are equipped to get jobs of a more skilled nature and does this not ask questions about our industrial and educational policies at home?

See in my mind our approach at education seems to be too general, instead of focusing on a few key base areas that can then move into a range of specialisms - for example, let's get our kids engaged with foreign language much earlier (especially as this helps with learning English). Let's start making a bigger play on technology in schools.

Rather than having a broad range of mandatory subjects in later years, why not have fewer so that students have more scope to focus on specialisms? Hell, why not shake up the school system completely by extended the primary school years (say from ages 4-12) and then have kids move to a colleague style school (that can cater for specialised subjects better) rather than secondary schools?

It is easy to blame a countries ills on an outside force... But could it be we're just distracting ourselves from our countries own structural problems and not looking at tackling this issue with a positive outlook on how we use the opportunities that the EU offers us better?

[Finnegan]

As much as remainers like to use the Norway, Iceland and Switzerland examples as a stick to beat the Brexiters, don't you find it a little odd that none of those countries have any sort of desire to join the EU....despite apparently having such a raw deal?

Surely by that logic you have to be asking brexit campaigners why no other major European nation is bothered about pulling out?

[swanningaround]

Hey all, came to wish you good luck and saw this thread.......I really have to comnent!

I'm for leaving because there is so much wrong with the the EU. I'm all for it in principle but Cameron's failed renegotiation showed we won't get anywhere, however I believe a leave vote would trigger either a cpllapse of the EU or (and hopefully) a complete rethink and restructuring of the whole shoddy edifice.

Did you know MEP'S cannot propose new laws but can only vote on laws that are proposed by the unelected eurocrats? It's undemocratic.

Someone said we can change our welfare laws while within the EU, well we tried that and the EU wouldn't agree so we had to water it down to practically no change, so no we can't.

Then there's the loss of sovereignty, a large chunk of our laws are made by the EU and I didnt vote for unelected politicians to make our rules. Parliament should have primacy, the EU should be a trading bloc.

Immigration, I'm not racust, I'm not against immigration, but it needs to ve controlled. Too much immigration isn't just bad for our country, it is also bad for the countries who lose thousands of skilled workers.

I know several Polish families who say the cost of living is similar in Poland but wages are much lower, they xame here because they can work much less but still earn more, that is a huge issue for me. The EU needs to be raising standards across the board but it seems to ve lowering us to the lowest common denominator, slowly. I fervently believe the minimum wage, welfare and tax structures should be the same all across the EU. Then we can still have free movement though I strongly believe that in these troubled times we need strict border checks to prevent ISIS running wild. Ordinary, innocent Muslims are feeling the pinch as mass immigration and terrorism fuels right wing groups. This is an EU failure, it has been awful in this area. And EU empure building caused the Russian intervention in the Ukraine too. EU policy is more likely to cause a war than keep the peace.

Then there's the effect mass immigration is having on our schools, the nhs, crime and housing. It's been detrimental to all of them.

There is so much more but what really irks me about the remain campaign is how negative they are about our chances outsude the EU. Truth is monody can predict exactly what will happen, for good or bad. Osborne said we'd be £4300 per hoysehold worse off in 2030 which is laughable and pathetic he can't get his quarterly predictions right, never mind looking 14/15 years ahead.

And all these government bods who make predictions have been badly wrong in the recent past, including those who said we must join the single currency or it would be catastrophic for us. Staying out proved to be fantastic for us, just look at Greece. Not forgetting many other euro users are in stormy waters too, including France.

I believe ee could survive and prosper. And recently even Jean Claude Juncker admitted the EU interferes too much in our lives.

All of that and much more convinces me leaving is our best choice. Yhere are 28 members in the EU yet they say if we leave it could collapse, if it is so weak without us, why couldn't we prosper? We are obviously stronger than they want us to believe.

Our biggest problem, and where we need most change is in OUR own politicians. We need new blood because the current bunch are mostly pathetic, self serving, careerists who are hopeless or negligent or corrupt and possibly all three. Very few of them are any good.

One ladt point, wr are apparently in austerity, there is mo money to spare. Now look at the increase in government, where there used to be just Westminster we have the three devolved governments and the EU with all their added costs.

In Wales we pay our elected representatives roughly £64000 per annum, that's just £7000 less than mp's, yet westminster is still notionally in overall charge of the UK. The Senedd has limited powers over less than 2 million people, we also spent 250 million on the Senedd assembly building. To my mind we waste millions on extra politicians that would be much better spent elsewhere. And/or we need to vastly downsize all of our governmental structures. Personally, I'd ditch all the devolved governments, the EU AND I'd reduce Westminster and give more powets to local councils.

Just my thoughts.

[Webbo]

Surely by that logic you have to be asking brexit campaigners why no other major European nation is bothered about pulling out?

There is growing Euro scepticism across Europe.

[swanningaround]

Surely by that logic you have to be asking brexit campaigners why no other major European nation is bothered about pulling out?

There is rising anti EU sentiment all across Europe, including France and Germany. Many Germans are very angry about the curr5situation which has seen sex crimes rocket.

In France a recent poll said that 45% were for staying in 33 for leaving and 22 undecided but that the gap was closing because a few years ago many more were for staying.

[Dodgy Bob]

How do you reconcile your complaint about the negative economic consequences of immigration with the fact that Swansea has one of the poorest performing economies of all UK cities despite being 97.8% white British?

[Strokes]

Surely by that logic you have to be asking brexit campaigners why no other major European nation is bothered about pulling out?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/646796/Dutch-voters-in-out-EU-referendum-Brexit-contagion-fears-Brussels-Jean-Claude-Juncker

[Alf Bentley]

This was my sister's reply to a post I made  on her  husband's Facebook page raising a couple of concerns about leaving. She is the director/owner of a small handmade furniture business in Workington employing half a dozen people or so all having roles and helping out each other if needed. So it is a happy workforce. You may agree or disagree with some of her points. But  she makes some which I have raised concern over on here but have been dismissed as rubbish. So this is coming from a business owner 'capitalist' if you like that has concerns about those worse off than herself. So it  is  possible to be compassionate and be successful in business. Compassion is not a 'lefty' thing as some  seem to think. It is a humane thing available to all.

 

 

You can disregard the human rights argument, that has nothing to do with the EU, it's the Council of Europe which the UK helped to set up just after the war that governs that. The UK has also led the way on many employment and discrimination laws. We introduced laws against sex and race discrimination back in the 1960's and 70's, before even joining the EU. All women in the UK had the vote in 1928 (rich and single women had it earlier) - The last EU member state to get round to it was Portugal in 1976. 

European legislation says that all employers must give 14 weeks maternity leave - that's exactly what Germany gives. France, the Netherlands and Spain generously give 16 weeks. The UK, however, gives 52 weeks. If we were planning on cutting back on maternity leave we could do that already, no need to leave the EU. 

If we look then at your other concern - free movement. You'll notice that it's mostly the big businesses that are telling us how good this is for us. From my perspective, with my own small business, I think it has been bad for us - and so does every other small business owner I've spoken to. I'm not talking about people's ability to holiday or retire in a sunny country, or tourists coming here, all that happened before the EU, no reason for it to end post Brexit. 

The main problem that I see with free movement is the negative impact on the labour market and the prospects of young people that it's had. It sounds wonderful in theory, people from all around Europe free to go to any country to work, but in practice it hasn't worked. Three big attractions of the UK are 1. Rate of pay - minimum wage is higher than skilled rates in many Eastern European countries, 2. Language - we speak English, the language taught in almost every school in Europe and 3. Welfare - agreed that this isn't normally the prime reason for coming, but does provide an attractive and generous safety net knowing that if the worst happens you will be looked after. Very few of our unemployed have the skills or language to travel to other countries to work, so the traffic is mostly one way.

Now the big companies think this is wonderful, they have a vast pool of cheap labour. Need an electrician? Forget employing somebody at £12 + an hour, just get a Pole at minimum wage. With such a large and cheap labour force wages are driven down and there's no need to bother training apprentices. We all know that the unemployment figures are total fiction as most of the “employed” are no longer on the unemployment register simply because they are on a zero hours contract, sanctioned or on some bogus training or work experience course, nothing to do with actually being in full employment. We are creating an “underclass”, the next generation who see no future, no hope, who may in despair drift into drugs, crime or whatever. 

The owners of the big businesses don't care as they live in their gated communities or private estates and their children go to public schools and have their internship lined up in their or their friend's company. All of us smaller business owners do care, we don't see these youngsters as “those plebs”, these are our children, grandchildren, neighbours' children etc. We're not just looking at the profit and loss account like them, we actually don't give a fig if it costs us a few quid more, we care about our neighbourhoods, society and the future for the children and the country.

 

 

I can  provide the Facebook page if you wish to reply poliely and constructively. The above may or not be my views on the EU. I am still not sure. I like playing it safe  and keeping the Status Quo. We have been a member for so long and it may take time to adjust. I am afraid of change if the truth be known.

 

 

Your sister-in-law makes some good points - and a better case than the motley crew of right-wing nationalists and Thatcherites fronting the Brexit campaign. Admittedly, she doesn't mention some of the potential (not inevitable) negatives of Brexit (economic harm due to uncertainty, loss of foreign investment, poorer trade terms, loss of international influence, social consequences of a downturn etc.), but that wasn't her aim. She is right to point out that big business benefits more from the EU than small business - and the same would apply to TTIP (EU-US free trade agreement). That's partly the EU's fault, but partly the fault of our politicians (Tory & NewLab alike): how much attention does any UK govt really pay to small business, compared to big corporations? 

 

A response to some of your sister-in-law's points:

 

It would be interesting to see some stats re. the UK jobs filled by EU immigrants. A lot are here because we do not train enough natives in certain occupations (doctors, nurses) or do not establish enough apprenticeships (industry, electricians, plumbers etc.). That's our fault. Are Polish plumbers really so much cheaper that they're making the profession non-viable for British plumbers? I reckon a properly trained/apprenticed British tradesman could still make a decent living in most sectors. There are areas where there's a definite problem: e.g. European gangmasters controlling access to seasonal agricultural work. But are British farmers making such jobs available to locals or just benefiting from the convenience and cost savings of hiring migrant gangs? If such workers are being paid less than the minimum wage, is enough effort being made to conduct inspections to prevent this? Are enough young people willing to do this work? 30-35 years ago, I did a lot of fruit/spud-picking work, back before the minimum wage existed and it was mainly piece work. Apart from a few gypsies, most fruit-pickers were local students, youths and housewives. Why has that changed?

 

British maternity LEAVE is more generous than in other EU countries, but maternity PAY might not be. I'm not well-informed about this, but know that some EU countries allow shorter maternity leave, but pay is much higher during that shorter period - that maybe the case in the countries you mention. I'm not saying whether that's good or bad - and I don't know whether French/German mothers are able to take an extra period of unpaid maternity leave - but we just operate a different system, which may or may not be more generous overall (I don't know). We certainly DON'T provide 4 times as much maternity pay! UK statutory maternity pay is 90% of your average earnings for 6 weeks, then £139.58 for 33 weeks..... Mothers & babies living on £139.58 per week won't be rolling in it, unless they have a good maternity pay deal from their employer or a partner earning a decent income.

 

It's unclear what the position would be for British ex-pats on the continent if we leave the EU. My guess is that it would largely depend on our attitude to EU migration to the UK - and on the self-interest of other EU nations. If we took a hard line on migration, they might retaliate unless their national self-interest dictated otherwise (e.g. if retirees on the Costas spend more in the local economy than they take out using local public services, hospitals etc.). I imagine any change would be more likely to affect new retirees, not existing ex-pats, but that might depend on the legal position - and on how tough UK immigration policy was towards their citizens.

 

Foreign languages are in decline in British schools and universities. Fewer are taking European languages at GCSE or A-level - and very few take rising languages like Mandarin. University languages departments are in crisis due to falling student numbers. I did my languages degree at Salford, which was rated among the best in the country for skills-oriented language degrees. Salford is now in the process of closing down its languages department due to lack of demand - a genuine tragedy as it was brilliant. If our unemployed lack the skills or knowledge of foreign languages to work abroad, we need to ask why. After all, by merely speaking English they already have a valuable asset to offer foreign employers.