Manwell Pablo Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 That's bloody painful, particularly given I think Joubert gave the Aussies a bit as well with the sin-binning, but just remind us - how many did England beat Australia by a couple of weeks ago? How about you remind us how many times Scotland have beaten England this decade In all seriousness I was quite gutted for you, very valiant effort.
Guest MattP Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Got to be the best set of quarter finals ever? Hope the semi's are just as good.
Nalis Posted 19 October 2015 Author Posted 19 October 2015 In the sober light of day, I'm somewhere in between the school of thought 'NH just arent good enough' and 'NH didnt play to their ability'. Wales would have got to the semis had it not been for a moment South African brilliance; same with Scotland and an unfortunate penalty. Argentina were sensational for the first 15 mins and last 10 mins of the game. Looking back, its hard to know if Ireland playing at their best would even have lived with them or not. What I dont get is how a team like Ireland can do so well in internationals against the SH in recent times (bar New Zealand). Maybe the SH arent taking those games as seriously as we're lead to believe or something, I dont know. Dont watch much Super 15 but of what I have watched its so exciting and expansive compared to European Rugby, which is more tense. Maybe as Finners has mentioned the gap between the domestic games of the NH and SH could just widen even more if both structures keep going the way they are going. Looking back it might have been blind faith but really thought this was Ireland's opportunity as I cant see us being any better in Japan 2019... This RWC must be a nightmare for the organisers, their ideal would surely have been a NH / SH final, I'd say tickets would start being available at less than face value for the 2 semis and final. NZ v Argentina would be my preferred final, NZ v Aussies for the history /rivalry. Just anyone but South Africa in the final please!
CosbehFox Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 There's a few, aye, but the Saveas, SBW, Nonu, Sopoaga, etc are all New Zealand born. In fact, nobody ever mentions that there's more New Zealand born players in the Samoa side than Samoan born players in the ABs. The culture you're bang on with but it's a lot more than that. It's infrastructure, it's league system, it's everything. Look at Australia. Jack of all trades. Rugby union is about their fourth or fifth sport but they're still significantly better. The northern hemisphere needs to embrace super rugby format. Just going to say no surprise those home nations what overachieved do run a system similar to super rugby. Wales in particular you could say 'profited' off it and Scotland certainly assisted by Glasgows recent success.I think they possibly close when the Heineken Cup became the Champions Cup but would it be more worthy to do an European franchise league ?
Finnegan Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 In my opinion, two things have brought about our rise. The first is the regions, however unpopular they've been. The second is the money in France and England. The irony is that those countries stealing all our best talent has forced us to keep blooding more and more youth. My region, Scarlets, has always been famous for talented backs but in the last few years we've contributed shit loads of them to Wales because the conveyor is constantly taking them out of West Wales due to funds shortage. Personally I want to see the Heineken cup scrapped and the top league in Europe be a super rugby clone with teams from France, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and MAYBE Italy. Those countries would continue their own domestic leagues for their traditional clubs but they wouldn't be the pinnacle of the sport. It'd provoke a lot of complaints to start and be wildly unpopular but it'd be tremendous for the national sides.
CosbehFox Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 In my opinion, two things have brought about our rise. The first is the regions, however unpopular they've been. The second is the money in France and England. The irony is that those countries stealing all our best talent has forced us to keep blooding more and more youth. My region, Scarlets, has always been famous for talented backs but in the last few years we've contributed shit loads of them to Wales because the conveyor is constantly taking them out of West Wales due to funds shortage. Personally I want to see the Heineken cup scrapped and the top league in Europe be a super rugby clone with teams from France, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and MAYBE Italy. Those countries would continue their own domestic leagues for their traditional clubs but they wouldn't be the pinnacle of the sport. It'd provoke a lot of complaints to start and be wildly unpopular but it'd be tremendous for the national sides. Agree with a lot of that. You say Scarlets, look at Glasgow. Year upon year of utter rubbish but after investing long term in players finally delivered. Speaking to an old work colleague (played rugby in Wales and Oz, he's an Ospreys fan), he agrees that it's helped the national team. The international weekends in Autumn and six nations actually provided a benefit as it gives opportunity to field youngsters. There's an argument to be had that the Pro League gained more competitiveness as a result of the Champions Cup qualification. Well use that notion as an opportunity to hold a World Club Championship. The cartel of English and French club teams would hate it though.
Finnegan Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 That's the biggest obstacle, the English and French businessmen don't want to share their pot of gold. It's exactly what's killing your football team but oh well.
howlinmadmurfdoc Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 That's the biggest obstacle, the English and French businessmen don't want to share their pot of gold. It's exactly what's killing your football team but oh well. Surely the pot of gold is the European cup, which everyone in the pro 12 qualifies for, yet the English and French sides have to fight for a place in it?
CosbehFox Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Surely the pot of gold is the European cup, which everyone in the pro 12 qualifies for, yet the English and French sides have to fight for a place in it?Its changed every Pro 12 club has to fight their place now. Although there is always a representative from each country. I think you set up an European franchise league, every game becomes an event. You still keep the club system in place (Currie Cup and ITM Cup is still a very good level in South Africa and New Zealand). You could split europe in two conferences have a league program of something like 24 games - which allows space on the calendar for your national tournament. You'd have no European Cup adding extra games or cup competition which no one has an interest in (Anglo-Welsh or Challenge Cup). I'm pretty sure as well that South Africa have like an inter promotion/relegation system as well dependent on the success of the franchise and the clubs. You replicate the qualification/pot of gold theory by having a World Club Championship every two years or similar. Super Rugby is about to boom and become a further success upon the introduction of the Argentinan and Japanese franchises.
Finnegan Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 The European Cup is the communal pot of gold, yes, but I'm talking about the television revenue from the top 14 and the English premiership. They're absolutely staggering, the top 14 especially.
fuchsntf Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 IRELAND were not poor, but more than any other NHM team lost 90% of their would be top players through injuries. Wales, lost also some game wining players. Both if they dont recover, might again have to wait 3-4 WCs for Top squads.Hope not. France, like England had a poor build up, and the last 4-5 years, havent had 7-9 talented players showing extra potential as before, and their BB players some are WClass, but good 4-6 players in a 15 man game with 5 expected subs, doesnt cut it. These 2 will come again. The Shms teams, more than most love their Sports, and their players turn up to EVERY big game, Especially in Rugby n Cricket. Plus they seem to have little difficulty to find players, where their 2nd teams are not far off their 1st team standards. Even at non-proffesional leveld, their sportspersons are aware and know their own needs to compete.They are not just physically harder, but mentally also.They understand discipline and needs in any game enviroment. ie In Rugby..Penalty awarenes, Cricket, bowlers to hold their line and length, for long spells. Scotland can prove if they are no 1 minute wonders by having an excellent 6 nations. English have to remember they are warriors like the Celts and gaelic brothers, and stop being Wuzzies in Both selection and play..Plus shoot anyone who gives stupid penalties away, and selectors who chose their best mates relations, or because they know how to hold a knife and fork.
Wymsey Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Quite embarrassing for the ref. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756
Nalis Posted 19 October 2015 Author Posted 19 October 2015 How ****ed off would you be if you were Scottish?
Hollism Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 How ****ed off would you be if you were Scottish? Very. I'd hate to be Scottish
Hollism Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Seriously though I find it interesting that World Rugby have come out and said this. Such a contrast to football where the officials are so protected.
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 In my opinion, two things have brought about our rise. The first is the regions, however unpopular they've been. The second is the money in France and England. The irony is that those countries stealing all our best talent has forced us to keep blooding more and more youth. My region, Scarlets, has always been famous for talented backs but in the last few years we've contributed shit loads of them to Wales because the conveyor is constantly taking them out of West Wales due to funds shortage. Personally I want to see the Heineken cup scrapped and the top league in Europe be a super rugby clone with teams from France, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and MAYBE Italy. Those countries would continue their own domestic leagues for their traditional clubs but they wouldn't be the pinnacle of the sport. It'd provoke a lot of complaints to start and be wildly unpopular but it'd be tremendous for the national sides. And take so much money away from France and England. It's all about the money.
goose2010 Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 I have a £25 bet on Savea to be top try scorer at 6/1 currently 3 tries ahead with two games remaining so I will be cheering the Kiwi's on now none of the Uk teams are left!
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Well Joubert has certainly taken some stick. It was the wrong decision and a very costly one for Scotland but sadly in sport that's how it goes sometimes. Hand of God for example. Refs have to make the decision that they think is right at the time. We could go much further and have video reffing for everything - I'm not against that - but that's not how it stands so human error is a part of the game. If he was later found to have cheated for financial reasons that's something else but I doubt that is the case. The only reason I'd reprimand him is for leaving the field without shaking hands with the players - that's his job too. Anyone with a different view?
Finnegan Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Wasn't as bad a decision as Sam Warburton getting sent off against France and they'd probably have lost anyway. I get why they're upset but it largely masks the fact they had an indifferent world cup with one good game against a tired looking Australia who were showing the effects of coming out of the toughest group in world cup history (interestingly, on that note, English friends of mine have commented how jaded Wales looked near the end vs saffers.)
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Wasn't as bad a decision as Sam Warburton getting sent off against France and they'd probably have lost anyway. I get why they're upset but it largely masks the fact they had an indifferent world cup with one good game against a tired looking Australia who were showing the effects of coming out of the toughest group in world cup history (interestingly, on that note, English friends of mine have commented how jaded Wales looked near the end vs saffers.) I agree with the statements about Wales and Australia looking tired. They are sure to be both physically and mentally. I've tried to explain that to the French (before there embarrassing defeat) but they just didn't get it. Even more so I think the game order worked badly against England. To have to fight the physicality of Fiji (and the mental problem of first game in own world cup) before playing a Fresh Wales and then to have to take on the Aussies in a must win tie made England's task incredibly hard. Not that I'm using that as THE excuse for England losing. In the other groups NZ, France, Ireland, SA had only one real test and knew that both teams should/would qualify. SA losing to Japan would have been the end of their tournament if they'd been in the same group as 2 of the big 3 in our group.
notnow john Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 I find it baffling that Joubert has been hung out to dry after a difficult decision. Will they now review every contentious call of the tournament and humiliate the official responsible, Or was it just a platitude to the whinging jocks?
Nalis Posted 20 October 2015 Author Posted 20 October 2015 Wasn't as bad a decision as Sam Warburton getting sent off against France and they'd probably have lost anyway.
Finnegan Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Hahahahaha. When the English shut up about Maradona, the kiwis get over that forward pass and the Irish forgive Thierry Henry, we'll let go of that woeful bit of refereeing.
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