USA 2016 Presidential Election Thread

[Carl the Llama]

John Oliver killing it:

 

Having downloaded the drumpfinator extension this thread is now infinitely more entertaining.

[leicsmac]

That is of course a very one sided view and it appears there are a lot of people in America who see it differently..

 

 

But to your other point- Simple- Get health insurance. People will often talk about the cost of health insurance but what you have to know is that the cost of living here is so much cheaper in England that so many people have alot more spare money that they choose to spend else ware. Bigger car, bigger house, more stuff, more nights out/ eating out I would imagine you to be a fairly intelligent person so i dont presume you call into the category of being someone who is either 'unemployable', or doesn't want a Job by choice, so i dont imagine you will have much difficulty in getting a job ( you might already have one lined up.. i don't know!).

 

Every company that has more than 50 full time employees is obliged to offer healthcare to their staff. If you work for a company that does not offer healthcare, then you can get heavily subsidized healthcare from the healthcare marketplace.

 

 

For example, the health insurance that i am offered through my workplace is $40 a month. My total maximum out of pocket expense for the healthcare is $1750 for the year. That includes medicines, drs visits, stays in hospital. Everything. Split over 12 months that's a maximum  cost of about $185 per month..  When you consider the average american has $400 more PER MONTH of disposable income than the average British person  as well as a much cheaper cost to living ( http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+Kingdom) Then you can see that really isn't something to worry about. Do people get huge bills sometimes? Yes of course they do. It's often because they have CHOSEN not to have healthcare and be landed with a huge bill. 

 

 

And for those who are not working or dont earn very much, there is of course the medicare/ medicaid program. On top of that.. During my first year my wife had a period of sickness. I took the  first job that i could get myhandsonI was a Janitor in a truckers depo. Horrible horrible toilets let me tell you, anyway.. I earnedjust a little too much ( !) to qualify for medicaid so my wife applied to the hospitals charity care program ( every hospital by law is obliged to have one) and most of those bills were paid for from that. She even applied to the ambulance companies charity care program and all those ambulance rides she needed that year were paid for.. Once she got a little bit better she then got coverage through the community free clinic , all the medicines she needed were on the $4 generic list ( cheaper than England!) and all her drs visits were for free.

 

 

Just like you have complained before about the scare tactics in the British media with regards to their right leaning tendencies, Believe it or not there are also some pretty biased media coverage out there towards most things American. Most of it is scaremongering though.

 

 

Sorry for the punctuation - written in a rush at work!

 

Thanks for the information - perhaps you are right about the scaremongering...I guess I'll find out when I get over there.

 

Regarding abortion and gay marriage, I however remain steadfast - the people who choose to believe that either of those things are wrong because it is supposedly written down in their holy book are fine with me, but the moment they try to legislate it so that everyone else is subject to their lack of choice due to their possibly-erroneous and irrational beliefs is the point where the line is crossed. And most of the Republican candidates would seek to do exactly that.

[Webbo]

I'm not religious , don't let believe in God but I'm extremely uncomfortable about abortion and would like to see less of it. You don't have  to be some sort of religious nut to  against it.

 

I don't want to turn this into an abortion thread.

[leicsmac]

I'm not religious , don't let believe in God but I'm extremely uncomfortable about abortion and would like to see less of it. You don't have to be some sort of religious nut to against it.

I don't want to turn this into an abortion thread.

In no other circumstance does a woman have no choice but to continue to maintain another life at the cost of her own bodily integrity. For instance, she cannot be forced to donate blood or organs to maintain the life of a loved one, she must choose to do so.

So why is this one particular circumstance so different? Why are so many intent on having that element of choice removed here, when the factors in the decision are the same?

As far as I'm concerned, that double standard renders the entire argument moot. Legislating for the inhibition of freedom of choice in one case but not the other is hypocritical and shows bias the law shouldn't have in a supposedly secular country.

I have no problem with peoples beliefs in this case, but them attempting to press them on others in this circumstance is wrong, for the reason I described above.

But, as you said, it's going off on a bit of a tangent here.

[Webbo]

What about the unborn child? Where's their freedom of choice? Unborn babies can be female too.

 

Anyway the point is you don't have to religious to be anti abortion.

[Guest MattP]

The Republican party by decade....

Lincoln: "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master."

Reagan: "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Trump: "I have a big penis."

[leicsmac]

What about the unborn child? Where's their freedom of choice? Unborn babies can be female too.

Anyway the point is you don't have to religious to be anti abortion.

What about the relative laying dying, needing an organ donor from their relative desperately?

The situation is exactly the same...one human being relying in the other one compromising their bodily integrity to let them live.

The decision to not help then would be heartless, but they have every right to take it, and that should not be legislated away. The same should be true of abortion.

Edit: totally agree that you don't have to be religious to be anti abortion, but the main bastion of opposition to it is religious.

[leicsmac]

The Republican party by decade....

Lincoln: "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master."

Reagan: "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Trump: "I have a big penis."

The politics of the modern era. Doesn't it make you proud?

[Guest MattP]

The politics of the modern era. Doesn't it make you proud?

 

Not really but I don't blame the people.

 

It's a consequence of the "establishment" continued efforts to ignore people's concerns about everything from mass immigration to the finances of a country, keep ignoring those and people do revert to extremes. There is only so much people will take when they see their culture and earnings being swallowed whole wilfully by the people they elect.

[leicsmac]

Not really but I don't blame the people.

It's a consequence of the "establishment" continued efforts to ignore people's concerns about everything from mass immigration to the finances of a country, keep ignoring those and people do revert to extremes. There is only so much people will take when they see their culture and earnings being swallowed whole wilfully by the people they elect.

I agree regarding the political establishment taking liberties with the political process and bring willfully deaf to the concerns of a lot of people.

Still, history has repeated itself often enough that when the people elect a maverick from outside the establishment who then turns out to be a psychotic demagogue who causes misery for a great many people, they should perhaps take a little bit of the blame for doing so as perhaps they should have seen it coming.

When you look at it like that though it really is Hobsons Choice for the voter.

[MPH]

Thanks for the information - perhaps you are right about the scaremongering...I guess I'll find out when I get over there.

 

Regarding abortion and gay marriage, I however remain steadfast - the people who choose to believe that either of those things are wrong because it is supposedly written down in their holy book are fine with me, but the moment they try to legislate it so that everyone else is subject to their lack of choice due to their possibly-erroneous and irrational beliefs is the point where the line is crossed. And most of the Republican candidates would seek to do exactly that.

 

 

 

Just out of interest, are you moving to a Northern state or a southern state? 

 

 

The Northern states, in general, tend to be more left leaning.

[davieG]

Not sure if it's funny as I haven't got sound on my pc

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

When you look at it like that though it really is Hobsons Choice for the voter.

 

 

You got me curious as to where "Hobson's Choice" originated.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

 

"The phrase is said to originate with Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), a livery stable owner in Cambridge, England, who offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in his stall nearest the door or taking none at all".

 

What an obscure way to achieve fame lasting half a millennium.

[Guest MattP]

That's fantastic, I love reading things like that.

Lived to a good age for that era as well.

[Alf Bentley]

That's fantastic, I love reading things like that.

Lived to a good age for that era as well.

 

 

Yep, 87 then would probably be equivalent to about 105 now.

 

He probably enjoyed grumpily pissing everyone off too much to die sooner.

[Guest MattP]

If that's the case we're both heading for 150. ;-)

[DJ Barry Hammond]

You got me curious as to where "Hobson's Choice" originated.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson's_choice

 

"The phrase is said to originate with Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), a livery stable owner in Cambridge, England, who offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in his stall nearest the door or taking none at all".

 

What an obscure way to achieve fame lasting half a millennium.

Then I go and learn about Morton's fork!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton%27s_fork

[Rincewind]

The film is one of my favourites.

[leicsmac]

Then I go and learn about Morton's fork!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton%27s_fork

 

Shit, that's probably the term I should have used - it fits better. Still, if I had we wouldn't have had that interesting discussion above.

 

Just out of interest, are you moving to a Northern state or a southern state? 

 

 

The Northern states, in general, tend to be more left leaning.

 

I'm moving to the libertarian paradise that is New Hampshire - Live Free or Die motherfvcker!

 

I'm rather looking forward to it.

[Guest MattP]

You do now realise everything you post after the move we're imagining you as Walter White in a ice covered cadillac?

I do love you 100% more though, get that numberplate.

[leicsmac]

You do now realise everything you post after the move we're imagining you as Walter White in a ice covered cadillac?

I do love you 100% more though, get that numberplate.

 

  I think it's practically compulsory for every car registered in that state. It's brilliant.

[MPH]

Shit, that's probably the term I should have used - it fits better. Still, if I had we wouldn't have had that interesting discussion above.

 

 

I'm moving to the libertarian paradise that is New Hampshire - Live Free or Die motherfvcker!

 

I'm rather looking forward to it.

I lived there for 3 months. It's a very nice area. Cold in winter. Lots of black bears but they are really

Too small to cause too much of an issue, but they are another reason some

People like to carry guns out in the boonies.

As an aside, lots of cheap natural maple syrup made locally in New Hampshire...

[Buce]

You got me curious as to where "Hobson's Choice" originated.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

"The phrase is said to originate with Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), a livery stable owner in Cambridge, England, who offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in his stall nearest the door or taking none at all".

What an obscure way to achieve fame lasting half a millennium.

It is also immortalised in Cockney Rhyming Slang:

Hobson's Choice = Voice.

[leicsmac]

Remember what I said regarding Bernie or Bust?

 

http://usuncut.com/politics/sanders-supporters/

 

This pisses me off beyond belief. What aggravates me the most about it is the total absolution of responsibility for the consequences from those who would choose to stay at home.

"It's not my fault that Trump got in, the DNC/mainstream media/entity of choice should have made sure Bernie won the nomination..."

No, no no.

If you stay at home, and Trump wins, that is your fault.

When Roe v Wade and the gay marriage Supreme Court decision come under fire because of a conservative-loaded Supreme Court, that is YOUR FAULT.

When the ACA is repealed and people die as a result, that IS YOUR FAULT.

When the economic war with the Chinese starts, the Mexicans hating you and Muslims become terribly marginalised along with the Middle East going up in still more smoke again, with a lot more deaths...THAT. IS. YOUR. FAULT.

You had the chance to stop all of that from happening at the ballot box in the general election. You didn't. You had the power to stop it, the decision was yours. You didn't.

You are ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE, along with those who voted Republican. The blood of women, of minorities, of anyone else who suffers and dies under a Trump presidency is all over your hands, and deep down you know it.

Don't fvcking lie and pass off selfrighteous, self-justifying, sanctimonious bullshit about it being not so. You played politics with the lives of marginalised people to satisfy yourselves, and you get no absolution for doing so from the people who suffer the consequences.

*endrant*

[Guest MattP]

Are you really surprised?

 

It's the same childish, feett stomping politics that led to Corbyn being elected here, they couldn't care less about the consequences of anything, only getting their own way.