USA 2016 Presidential Election Thread

[leicsmac]

Are you really surprised?

 

It's the same childish, feett stomping politics that led to Corbyn being elected here, they couldn't care less about the consequences of anything, only getting their own way.

 

Not massively. But it still inspires anger. Having all of those things happen partly through the boneheadedness of those who also wish for social justice but don't understand compromise will do that.

 

Gods, I abhor absolutism.

[Detroit Blues]

I don't think Hillary stands much of a chance against Trump in a general election. Though she will undoubtedly win the nomination over Bernie Sanders in the Primary, her campaign is showing signs of weakness. Exit polls show that voters find her to be untrustworthy and unrelatable. She's losing independent voters to Bernie sanders 3:1. 

 

If she can't beat Bernie Sanders in Michigan, how is she going to beat Trump? How is she going to win important swing states like Ohio? Her main base of support thus far are southern states that will never go blue. 

 

Things are looking grim. Unless there's a wildcard, like the evangelical republican base choosing not to support Trump. Or Hillary dropping out of the race, and Bernie Sanders running in her stead. I see Trump as the next leader of the free world. God save us all.

[Webbo]

With the likely candidates in both parties seemingly unpopular is there a possible independent candidate who could profit?

[Detroit Blues]

With the likely candidates in both parties seemingly unpopular is there a possible independent candidate who could profit?

 

Not likely. In order to have a serious third party run, you'd need to be able to self-finance your candidacy like Ross Perot did in 1992. He won 18% of the popular vote, but not a single electoral vote. 

 

The only scenario where there'd be a serious third party candidate, would be if somehow Trump lost the republican primary but decided to run as an independent. He has the personal resources and the persona to run as an independent. That's what the republican party initially feared. They never dreamed he'd win, but they were fearful that he would come in 2nd or 3rd place, and run as an independent, which would be a thorn in their side.

 

Generally what happens is if there's a popular third party candidate, they draw votes from the political party they're closest related to, and cost them the election. Much like how Ralph Nader (green party) allegedly cost Al gore the election in 2002 by pulling votes away in Florida.

 

Here's a quick run down of the "major" 3rd party candidates to date: 

 

Gary Johnson is running under the Libertarian Party in 2016, just like he did in 2012 when he grabbed 1% of the vote. Libertarians are socially progressive, but fiscally conservative. They basically want to limit the government as much as possible. 

 

Jill Stein is running for the Green Party in 2016, just like she did in 2012 when she grabbed 0.3% of the vote. The Green party was popular in the early 2000's when Ralph Nader won almost 3% of the vote. They're far less popular now that the democrats are taking environmental issues somewhat seriously.

 

There's also the call for Michael Bloomberg to run as an independent, but he's already decided against it. He's a billionaire, and former NYC mayor. 

[Guest MattP]

I don't think Hillary stands much of a chance against Trump in a general election. Though she will undoubtedly win the nomination over Bernie Sanders in the Primary, her campaign is showing signs of weakness. Exit polls show that voters find her to be untrustworthy and unrelatable. She's losing independent voters to Bernie sanders 3:1. 

 

If she can't beat Bernie Sanders in Michigan, how is she going to beat Trump? How is she going to win important swing states like Ohio? Her main base of support thus far are southern states that will never go blue. 

 

Things are looking grim. Unless there's a wildcard, like the evangelical republican base choosing not to support Trump. Or Hillary dropping out of the race, and Bernie Sanders running in her stead. I see Trump as the next leader of the free world. God save us all.

 

I think polls will have to be taken with a pinch of salt in this election more than any other in history.

 

Not the same I know but in England you have "shy Tories" - people who vote Conservative in the ballot box but won't tell people as it's almost socially unacceptable in some circles, no one will really know what Trump's level of support is until we find out at the ballot box in my opinion.

 

My mate lives in New York/Philly and got slaughtered by his circle for even suggesting he may vote for Trump, he obviously won't say is he to them now but will be when it comes to voting day.

[Vacamion]

Shocking scenes on this morning's news, which do no favours to democracy.

As much as I dislike Trump, I don't agree that people's right of expression extends to protesting at their opponents' rallies.

If you don't like the other side, stay away and let them talk shit to each other.

[leicsmac]

Shocking scenes on this morning's news, which do no favours to democracy.

As much as I dislike Trump, I don't agree that people's right of expression extends to protesting at their opponents' rallies.

If you don't like the other side, stay away and let them talk shit to each other.

 

As much as I like the idea of Trump getting horribly embarrassed by people power, I have to agree, if only for the reason that this gives him ample ammunition with which to play the victim, when he's really anything but.

[Alf Bentley]

As much as I like the idea of Trump getting horribly embarrassed by people power, I have to agree, if only for the reason that this gives him ample ammunition with which to play the victim, when he's really anything but.

 

 

Yep. Just like banning / no-platforming controversial opponents, such disruption is most likely to encourage feelings of victimhood and to benefit the "victim" - Trump, in this case. Perceptions that they are victims seem common among people attracted to Trump in the first place, so it's doubly stupid.

 

By all means express opposition by protesting outside such an event, but entering the venue and disrupting that event is likely to be counter-productive

[Foxbythesea]

Defiantly Hilary Clinton. If not then Sanders.

[leicsmac]

Yep. Just like banning / no-platforming controversial opponents, such disruption is most likely to encourage feelings of victimhood and to benefit the "victim" - Trump, in this case. Perceptions that they are victims seem common among people attracted to Trump in the first place, so it's doubly stupid.

 

By all means express opposition by protesting outside such an event, but entering the venue and disrupting that event is likely to be counter-productive

 

This this this. The entire reason why such protests are counterproductive - it just breeds a siege mentality amongst the demagogues.

[leicsmac]

Interesting thought here...Donald Trump claims all the violence directed at minorities at his rallies are because Bernie Sanders is sending those minorities to his rallies to start trouble, so its really Bernies fault.

 

Which is weird because according to Hillary Clinton (and many others), all of Bernies real supporters are white men...because Bernie has no civil rights record and women all support Clinton to avoid going to hell so no minorities would support Sanders.

[Finnaldo]

Interesting thought here...Donald Trump claims all the violence directed at minorities at his rallies are because Bernie Sanders is sending those minorities to his rallies to start trouble, so its really Bernies fault.

 

Which is weird because according to Hillary Clinton (and many others), all of Bernies real supporters are white men...because Bernie has no civil rights record and women all support Clinton to avoid going to hell so no minorities would support Sanders.

 

Didn't he march with MLK? I've heard such but don't have anything concrete as to really believe it was the case.

[leicsmac]

Didn't he march with MLK? I've heard such but don't have anything concrete as to really believe it was the case.

I think I've seen a picture of him being involved, though I'd have to dig it up again just to be sure.

In any case, I was just highlighting yet another logical dissonance regarding Trump and his campaign.

[Detroit Blues]

Didn't he march with MLK? I've heard such but don't have anything concrete as to really believe it was the case.

 

 

Looks like he was arrested for protesting in the civil rights movement, but he's not confirmed to have marched with MLK. 

 

http://www.snopes.com/sanders-mlk-selma-march/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-arrested-protesting-segregation-video-photo_us_56c8a824e4b0ec6725e2d238

[leicsmac]

Early results from two big states with winner-takes-all-delegates...Trump wins Florida but Kasich wins his home state, Ohio. Rubio has finally fallen by the wayside. Looks like a brokered convention and blood on the floor at the RNC in June is a possibility now, unless Trump can win a significant amount of the remaining states.

 

Hillary wins both Florida and Ohio...I think that kills off any remaining challenge from Bernie. He needed at least one of those two to get close enough for the superdelegates to consider changing their mind, and without them it'll take a miracle.

[ozleicester]

So, how do the conservatives feel about being represented by Donald Trump? This man is apparently the reflection of you and what you believe in, and stand for.

 

How do you feel about that?

[Rincewind]

I saw somewhere where he compared immigrants to poisonous snakes.

 

His story that he told when saying immigrants are like snakes.

A woman sees a snake that is hurt so she picks it up and takes it home. There she tends it and feeds it. As she reaches to stroke it bites her.

'You bit me and I was kind and saved your life' She says

The snake replies 'Ah but you knew I was a snake that was poisonous when you picked me up'

[Guest MattP]

So, how do the conservatives feel about being represented by Donald Trump? This man is apparently the reflection of you and what you believe in, and stand for.

 

How do you feel about that?

 

British Conservatism is nothing like American Republicanism. It's no reflection at all what anyone on here who supports the Conservatives would believe in.

[Alf Bentley]

British Conservatism is nothing like American Republicanism. It's no reflection at all what anyone on here who supports the Conservatives would believe in.

 

 

Trump seems more equivalent to a cross between UKIP and the BNP.

 

The populism and victim mentality of UKIP and the raw racism and aggression of the BNP, specially packaged to appeal to people who feel insecure and downtrodden.

 

I imagine that most committed Tory voters would find that unappealing, though there are some on here who would like it. It would probably appeal to as many UKIP and Labour voters.

 

Newsnight quoted a bit of policy analysis the other night, showing that on a number of policies (as opposed to rhetoric & demagoguery), Trump was to the left of Cruz and Rubio.

[Darkon84]

So, how do the conservatives feel about being represented by Donald Trump? This man is apparently the reflection of you and what you believe in, and stand for.

 

How do you feel about that?

 

good ol' Oz

[Finnaldo]

That's Rubio out for sure and Bernie out in all but official recognition. Unfortunately that means it's looking like a certain Hillary win and another ineffectual presidency, discounting what would be a miraculously tragic victory for Trump.  

[Detroit Blues]

Now that the primaries are all but over, I'm finally resigned to the fact that i'm going to have to pick one of these two clowns to be president. What good is democracy when your only two choices suck? Kind of reminds me of the south park episode where the school has to pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich for who will represent the school as the mascot.

 

[MPH]

Now that the primaries are all but over, I'm finally resigned to the fact that i'm going to have to pick one of these two clowns to be president. What good is democracy when your only two choices suck? Kind of reminds me of the south park episode where the school has to pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich for who will represent the school as the mascot.

 

 

 

Im going with the concept that when it comes to it, the concept of the political party's core values will be what voters should go for..

[leicsmac]

Im going with the concept that when it comes to it, the concept of the political party's core values will be what voters should go for..

 

Exactly. Which is why practically every single woman, for instance, should really vote Democrat regardless of whether a woman is or is not the Democratic candidate, considering a reasonably critical difference between the parties core values regarding religious influence and its effect on women across the country.

 

/controversial facetiousness

[Harry - LCFC]

So, how do the conservatives feel about being represented by Donald Trump? This man is apparently the reflection of you and what you believe in, and stand for.

How do you feel about that?

Trump isn't a conservative, he's a right wing populist.