Another plane crash

[Collymore]

In what way are they lying to us? Plane crashes,whhen compared to the thousands flights per day across the world,are incredibly rare.

They're not lying. I'm using that as an example of how the media are influencing people's ideas about air safety. People on here are saying that air travel is dangerous just because they're hearing about it on the news.

People ineyeyr

[bovril]

In what way are they lying to us? Plane crashes,whhen compared to the thousands flights per day across the world,are incredibly rare.

 

I think it is pretty obvious what he's talking about. I know your average foxestalker is pretty media-savvy but there are a surprisingly large amount of retards out there who take everything in the press as gospel.

[The whole world smiles]

There's a video out there that Islamic state just released showing a plane being shot down by a missle...

IF this proves to be true and it's still a big IF for m e as its not beyond ISIS to rehash an old video and claim it as theirs, then I can quite believe that they have picked on the wrong country. Russians don't care about international opinion or their image, they'll put everything into taking them out.

The Russians have already lost one war in Afghanistan just before us and the americans went over there not sure they would want another long drawn out war against an opponent using gorilla tactics.

[Alf Bentley]

Plane crashes,whhen compared to the thousands flights per day across the world,are incredibly rare.

 

 

Discussed here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/24/avoid-air-travel-mh17-math-risk-guide

 

So, 1 fatal accident per 3,000,000 flights, approximately... more chance of winning the lottery jackpot. According to the stats quoted, mile-for-mile you're 100 times more likely to die travelling by car and even twice as likely to die in a train.

 

The psychology is interesting, though. Despite knowing air travel to be statistically very safe, I still feel a bit apprehensive in a plane, in a way that I don't in a car or train (unless driven erratically)....yet I'd still be in the crap in a serious car/train crash.

Years back, I got talking to a woman on a station platform who hadn't been on a train for about 20 years and was absolutely petrified - commenting on how fast trains were etc. What would a person from 1820, when there was nothing faster than a horse, make of a 70mph car or a 125mph train?

 

Speeding along at 70mph in a car or 125mph in a train isn't any more natural than flying - and is statistically less safe - so what's the psychological reason why most people fear flying more than trains or cars?

[Alf Bentley]

The Russians have already lost one war in Afghanistan just before us and the americans went over there not sure they would want another long drawn out war against an opponent using gorilla tactics.

 

Indeed. An opponent beating their hairy chest and throwing bananas....petrifying!

 

I'd be wild - even livid - at such a situation:

[bovril]

Discussed here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/24/avoid-air-travel-mh17-math-risk-guide

 

So, 1 fatal accident per 3,000,000 flights, approximately... more chance of winning the lottery jackpot. According to the stats quoted, mile-for-mile you're 100 times more likely to die travelling by car and even twice as likely to die in a train.

 

The psychology is interesting, though. Despite knowing air travel to be statistically very safe, I still feel a bit apprehensive in a plane, in a way that I don't in a car or train (unless driven erratically)....yet I'd still be in the crap in a serious car/train crash.

Years back, I got talking to a woman on a station platform who hadn't been on a train for about 20 years and was absolutely petrified - commenting on how fast trains were etc. What would a person from 1820, when there was nothing faster than a horse, make of a 70mph car or a 125mph train?

 

Speeding along at 70mph in a car or 125mph in a train isn't any more natural than flying - and is statistically less safe - so what's the psychological reason why most people fear flying more than trains or cars?

 

I always think it's a control thing. Even if I'm not driving the car (and obviously not the train) I know that I can get off pretty much when I want, and if something does go wrong at least I have solid ground to get to quickly. With flying, you know you are in this little metal tube for a couple of hours and just put your trust in the (obviously excellent) pilots and mechanics.

[Alf Bentley]

I always think it's a control thing. Even if I'm not driving the car (and obviously not the train) I know that I can get off pretty much when I want, and if something does go wrong at least I have solid ground to get to quickly. With flying, you know you are in this little metal tube for a couple of hours and just put your trust in the (obviously excellent) pilots and mechanics.

 

 

Maybe. Yet when a plane starts taxiing down the runway and I feel slightly apprehensive, I just say to myself: "you have no control now, so anxiety serve no purpose" and start reading or whatever.

 

I don't think it's just lack of control. You wouldn't be able to get off a Leicester-London non-stop train any quicker than you could off a London-Amsterdam flight - and could hit solid ground very quickly indeed if the train crashed at 125mph. 

 

Yet very few people feel nervous on a train and many feel nervous on a plane. I'm sure someone must have studied the psychological reasons for this, as it's not a rational response. Maybe it's just the factor of being high above ground level? Maybe a rationally/statistically greater risk at ground level is more psychologically acceptable than a much lesser risk up in the air?

[bovril]

But if you need to stop and evacuate a train you can. At 30000 feet it's trickier. But the fear of flying I have is not so much the fear of death as the fear of being in a terrifying and hopeless situation that could take minutes to play out.

And anyway I though trains were safer when you compare fatalities by passenger numbers,not distance travelled.

[Beliall]

i have no idea why planes dont have parachutes for each passenger like boats have to have lifeboats. if a plane isnt recoverable, you  should be able to jump out

[Webbo]

i have no idea why planes dont have parachutes for each passenger like boats have to have lifeboats. if a plane isnt recoverable, you  should be able to jump out

If you're not trained to use a parachute and at the height you'd be jumping from the chances of survival are practically nil anyway.

[bovril]

Absolutely heartbreaking to see the photo of the 10 month old that died in the crash.

[Beliall]

If you're not trained to use a parachute and at the height you'd be jumping from the chances of survival are practically nil anyway.

 

 

if the plane is going down anyway, ill take my chances, besides the chute could auto deploy, couldnt  it?

[GaelicFox]

i have no idea why planes dont have parachutes for each passenger like boats have to have lifeboats. if a plane isnt recoverable, you should be able to jump out

You would be dead or unconscious before you pull your cord !

And as others have pointed out at 30000 feet even the best parachutists would have serious planning done

Flying is so safe

[potter3]

A parachute for every passenger would take up too much space and weigh too much. That's not even mentioning the basically nil chances of it saving anybody's life, as others have said.

[Guest seanfox778]

I find time takes an eternity on a plane too, it's obviously because I'm clock watching but I never feel properly comfortable on a plane. Being 6ft 4" doesn't help either. I love the descent and the landing, I feel all the anxiety melt away.

[BoyJones]

Absolutely heartbreaking to see the photo of the 10 month old that died in the crash.

100% agree.

Just back from a triple christening, all the babies aged about 8-11 months old. Same age as that poor child in the photo. Was thinking about the passengers during the service.

RIP all of them.

[Soar Fox]

I go on holiday 2/3 times a year so been on a plane plenty of times and flying doesn't bother me at all but.

Flying back last week from Cape Town it's the first time I've ever felt scared on a plane. The turbulence we had I've never felt anything like that before, then I looked out the window and all I could see was lightening.

It probably doesn't help that I watch air crash investigation.

[Samilktray]

Why wouldn't parachutes work at such heights?

[Soar Fox]

Why wouldn't parachutes work at such heights?

Why wouldn't parachutes work at such heights?

You wouldn't be alive to pull the cord on a parachute.

30,000+ feet up in the air at -50 degrees plus the lack of oxygen. Yeah you'd be brown bread.

[stripeyfox]

The parachutes idea always gets trotted out by people who have little or no understanding of aviation. It seems like a good idea but after considering if for only a few moments you can see that it is a stupid one.

Considering the tens of thousands of flights every day which almost always take off and land without incident, the suggestion goes that airlines should equip every aircraft with enough chutes for every passenger, including infants and children.

Most in flight emergencies do not result in crashes, and the crew are able to land safely - no need for people to jump out.

The majority of crashes are attributed to 1) catastrophic failure - no chance to evacuate or 2) controlled flight into terrain - no warning to evacuate or 3) crash on take off or landing - no chance to evacuate.

You really down to an exceptionally, almost impossible scenario where the aircraft can maintain stable flight at low enough altitude for long enough for 300 people who have never even put on a parachute to get equipped and jump out of a door without being sucked into an engine (resulting in death and further damage to the aircraft). I have no idea how long it would take for 300 people to jump but if the aircraft can stay flying for that long then the chances are the pilot could get it to an airport and increase everyone's chances.

[MPH]

The Russians have already lost one war in Afghanistan just before us and the americans went over there not sure they would want another long drawn out war against an opponent using gorilla tactics.

 

 

 

 

They're too prideful to take a few hits on the chin and not respond.  Neither side would agree, but they are much too similar to America for that.

[Collymore]

The parachutes idea always gets trotted out by people who have little or no understanding of aviation. It seems like a good idea but after considering if for only a few moments you can see that it is a stupid one.

Considering the tens of thousands of flights every day which almost always take off and land without incident, the suggestion goes that airlines should equip every aircraft with enough chutes for every passenger, including infants and children.

Most in flight emergencies do not result in crashes, and the crew are able to land safely - no need for people to jump out.

The majority of crashes are attributed to 1) catastrophic failure - no chance to evacuate or 2) controlled flight into terrain - no warning to evacuate or 3) crash on take off or landing - no chance to evacuate.

You really down to an exceptionally, almost impossible scenario where the aircraft can maintain stable flight at low enough altitude for long enough for 300 people who have never even put on a parachute to get equipped and jump out of a door without being sucked into an engine (resulting in death and further damage to the aircraft). I have no idea how long it would take for 300 people to jump but if the aircraft can stay flying for that long then the chances are the pilot could get it to an airport and increase everyone's chances.

 

Surely the original person who mentioned parachutes was joking.

[stripeyfox]

Surely the original person who mentioned parachutes was joking.

Possibly. Sometimes hard to tell between real idiots and people pretending to be idiots. But the subject crops up often on aviation sites as well.

[bovril]

Possibly. Sometimes hard to tell between real idiots and people pretending to be idiots. But the subject crops up often on aviation sites as well.

 

Or maybe he's not an idiot, he just didn't know something, as tends to happen sometimes.

[Bellend Sebastian]

You'd need to be in an ejector seat to have a chance of escaping an airliner.  At least that would stop people reclining them, the bastards