Trump Triumphs

[Guest WarehamFox]

15 minutes ago, GazzinderFox said:

I've just been looking over the full Clintons rap-sheet going back to 1978 absolutely shocking. How they have avoided jail time when so many around them didn't is astounding, you have to wonder what goes on behind closed doors in Washington.

Very true, It's a mystery. But the money and the power and knowing the right people have helped. See the kids are on the streets again, rioting now. I would clip them round the ear (sorry PC crowd) and send them to bed without their pudding! Hope they won't be to tired at school this morning.

[davieG]

25 minutes ago, GazzinderFox said:

I've just been looking over the full Clintons rap-sheet going back to 1978 absolutely shocking. How they have avoided jail time when so many around them didn't is astounding, you have to wonder what goes on behind closed doors in Washington.

I'm sure there's plenty of skeletons in Trump's Cupboard if you look deeply enough and they'll be even more after his 4 years in office.

 

That's not to excuse the clintons or all the previous heads of governments around the world.

[Parafox]

I wasn't sure whether this should go in the "Absolute C**** Of our Time" thread or this one...

 

Quote from Nicola Sturgeon on the outcome of the election: Responding to the result, Ms Sturgeon said: "While this is not the outcome I hoped for, it is the verdict of the American people and we must respect it. I congratulate President-Elect Trump on winning the election"

 

Absolute two faced hypocrite.

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, Parafox said:

I wasn't sure whether this should go in the "Absolute C**** Of our Time" thread or this one...

 

Quote from Nicola Sturgeon on the outcome of the election: Responding to the result, Ms Sturgeon said: "While this is not the outcome I hoped for, it is the verdict of the American people and we must respect it. I congratulate President-Elect Trump on winning the election"

 

Absolute two faced hypocrite.

Aye what about those states that didn't want Trump, perhaps they should have a referendum on Independence.

[GazzinderFox]

Spot on blog from a Clinton sympathising author looking at the social media outpouring from the last few days. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/donald-trumps-victory-made-social-media-unbearable/  

[MC Prussian]

A reflection on the immediate social media and media response following Trump's win:

 

[Guest MattP]

14 hours ago, leicsmac said:

http://whywereafraid.com/

 

All of these false flags?

That website went up incredibly quick.
 

16 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, of course it's a fvcking false flag. Every such incident (there were at least forty in the source I used, mostly anecdotal and I picked the more obvious pictorial ones) that's been put up on social media is a fvcking false flag.

 

Sorry for being abrupt Matt, but if you don't think at least a hardcore minority of Trump supporters are capable of such things and are carrying them out then you're as naive as me believing that we might all get along some day.

You can be abrupt as you want, some of the incidents will be genuine, some will be false flags,

 

The police are now going on Twitter and asking a lot of people who are tweeting these stories why they aren't reporting them, I have a feeling now they are doing this they might just dry up a bit, if you get what I mean.

 

As I say, the most serious one I've seen is a white guy getting the shit kicked out of him and having his car robbed, and this one was live and recorded on video, but we won't talk about that as it doesn't fit the narrative of evil old whitey we want to carry on portraying.
 

15 hours ago, bovril said:

I'm sure if Trump had the won the popular vote but lost the electoral college all would be calm.

Missed the point, we all knew Trump and his supporters wouldnt accept it, although I doubt we'd see them pooing on the floor and smearing it over picture of Trump in the street - http://pamelageller.com/2016/11/democrat-defecates-public-on-trump-sign.html/

The houlier than tho left yet again told us it would all be them and just like Brexit, assumed we would never see them doing it as they wer obviously going to win, I'm just so glad we have now seen it, it would have been a tragedy had we not, I still wouldn't have voted on Tuesday as I made clear, but if I now knew what the reaction was going to be and the election was next Tuesday, I would certainly be making the effort to go out and vote for Donald Trump.
 

15 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I am at a work event this week near Paris, and we had a very interesting guest speaker this evening.  A french professor of Geopolitical science, globally reknowned, who has indeed been on TV and radio for most of the last 24 hours.  He is very concerned about Trump on a number of key areas:

1) The soft power / influence of the USA has already been damaged by the result.

2) Trump is woefully ill qualified for the role, in particular understanding the complexities of international politics.

3) Trump has likely already undermined NATO to the point where Putin will see little downside in invading Ukraine in the short term.

4) Trump will not honour defence treaties with Japan or South Korea, which will upset the balance of power in the Pacific where Chain are already expanding their interests agressively.

 

Essentially the stability which has come from American Power and influence may well have just come to an end overnight, and the world is a much more dangerous place effective 9 am yesterday morning.  Unfortunately the guy was rather convincing,  His positive closing point was that the rise of populism and the far right is not a foregone conclusion, and we must fight for our moral values, and not allow other interests to silence us.

I suppose the only consolation you take from this is that political experts just seem to be getting every prediction wrong at the minute.

[Guest MattP]

The Jonathan Pie video is absolutely fantastic, if every left winger in the World took that advice I'd be shitting myself at any election upcoming for any right leaning party I supported, they won't though fortunately.

 

The point about not being able to silence people in the ballot box is brilliant, you can be hounded, derided and insulted for your views for years, in that few seconds and with one stroke of a pen you can take your revenge for all of it. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the so called progressive left watched this came to the conclusion they need to outlaw anonymous voting from it.

 

[Guest MattP]

Just got off the bus, 40 naked guys were doing a conga down the centre of it whilst forcing women to touch their penises, they were shouting you should be thankful for this dick, I cried and told the staff but they did nothing, the police were laughing as well.

 

I don't want to live in this country anymore. #weareafraid #everydaysexism #notmypresident #mansplaining

[leicsmac]

Just now, MattP said:

Just got off the bus, 40 naked guys were doing a conga down the centre of it whilst forcing women to touch their penises, they were shouting you should be thankful for this dick, I cried and told the staff but they did nothing, the police were laughing as well.

 

I don't want to live in this country anymore. #weareafraid #everydaysexism #notmypresident #mansplaining

Belittle legitimate fears as much as you like, Matt. As you said, that's the reason Trump got in - people having reasonable concerns overlooked and thinking that they're not being listened to - and these things do have a habit of repeating.

 

Something both sides of the arena seem to do, I think.

[GazzinderFox]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

Missed the point, we all knew Trump and his supporters wouldnt accept it, although I doubt we'd see them pooing on the floor and smearing it over picture of Trump in the street - http://pamelageller.com/2016/11/democrat-defecates-public-on-trump-sign.html/

I wondered what Yvette Cooper was up to these days...

[purpleronnie]

54 minutes ago, MattP said:

The Jonathan Pie video is absolutely fantastic, if every left winger in the World took that advice I'd be shitting myself at any election upcoming for any right leaning party I supported, they won't though fortunately.

 

The point about not being able to silence people in the ballot box is brilliant, you can be hounded, derided and insulted for your views for years, in that few seconds and with one stroke of a pen you can take your revenge for all of it. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the so called progressive left watched this came to the conclusion they need to outlaw anonymous voting from it.

 

There's a lot of lefties like me who agree with what he said (see video posted), we are our own worst enemies.  I simply don't know where the left go from here. 

 

Maybe just maybe after what's happened this year we will finally realise its nobodies fault but our own and finally come to our senses and move forward.

 

But I won't hold my breath.

 

[Voll Blau]

3 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

There's a lot of lefties like me who agree with what he said (see video posted), we are our own worst enemies.  I simply don't know where the left go from here. 

 

Maybe just maybe after what's happened this year we will finally realise its nobodies fault but our own and finally come to our senses and move forward.

 

But I won't hold my breath.

 

Full of hope now given that's what you say about safe standing happening in the next few years too. 

[purpleronnie]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

Full of hope now given that's what you say about safe standing happening in the next few years too. 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, purpleronnie said:

There's a lot of lefties like me who agree with what he said (see video posted), we are our own worst enemies.  I simply don't know where the left go from here. 

 

Maybe just maybe after what's happened this year we will finally realise its nobodies fault but our own and finally come to our senses and move forward.

 

But I won't hold my breath.

 

No I wouldn't, I think the "progressive" movement has gone too far to realise or take any of these arguments. As he says, the cultural war is won and anyway who disagrees is obviously an idiot.

 

All the real fights for equality have now been won by the previous generations, civil rights movement, gay marriage, women's suffrage etc - so now you have a group of young people who want to do the same but don't really have anything to go at, so they end making stuff up that looks absolutely ridiculous to anyone who isn't of the same opinion, they end up protesting against people like Germaine Greer, anyone who challenges them is "mansplaining", they are so insular they have even created safe spaces for what is supposed to be the brightest in society. We're hearing people say they can't explain to their children how this has happened, grown adults saying that they can't talk and are crying, it's pathetic.

 

I mean just look at this. (I know it's Fox but it's happening)

 

 

I actually laughed out loud when he mentioned Louis Smith and when on earth did the Gymnastic association start deciding it was going to enforce blasphemy laws?

[purpleronnie]

41 minutes ago, MattP said:

No I wouldn't, I think the "progressive" movement has gone too far to realise or take any of these arguments. As he says, the cultural war is won and anyway who disagrees is obviously an idiot.

 

All the real fights for equality have now been won by the previous generations, civil rights movement, gay marriage, women's suffrage etc - so now you have a group of young people who want to do the same but don't really have anything to go at, so they end making stuff up that looks absolutely ridiculous to anyone who isn't of the same opinion, they end up protesting against people like Germaine Greer, anyone who challenges them is "mansplaining", they are so insular they have even created safe spaces for what is supposed to be the brightest in society. We're hearing people say they can't explain to their children how this has happened, grown adults saying that they can't talk and are crying, it's pathetic.

 

I mean just look at this. (I know it's Fox but it's happening)

 

 

I actually laughed out loud when he mentioned Louis Smith and when on earth did the Gymnastic association start deciding it was going to enforce blasphemy laws?

I wouldn't mock them Matt, I'm sure some of us Remainers wouldn't of whined so much if we had some play-doh.

[Guest MattP]

On a similar subject as well, how many times can that fake meme about Trump calling Republicans dumb go around?

 

I saw one earlier that had 3.4 million shares.

[David Guiza]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

On a similar subject as well, how many times can that fake meme about Trump calling Republicans dumb go around?

 

I saw one earlier that had 3.4 million shares.

Ridiculous that people can't fact check it themselves. The first time I saw it, about 2/3 months ago, I thought that can't be true and soon realised it was nonsense. 

 

Same thing happened with a picture of Clinton and Osama Bin Laden which turned out to be a picture that won a Photoshop competition. The laziness of my generation especially is beyond me, if they're not sharing the crap above they're sharing an article from 2009 and wondering why nobody has mentioned it on the news. 

[Merging Cultures]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

On a similar subject as well, how many times can that fake meme about Trump calling Republicans dumb go around?

 

I saw one earlier that had 3.4 million shares.

How many billions are on the planet? It's got a way to go yet. 

[Voll Blau]

56 minutes ago, MattP said:

No I wouldn't, I think the "progressive" movement has gone too far to realise or take any of these arguments. As he says, the cultural war is won and anyway who disagrees is obviously an idiot.

 

All the real fights for equality have now been won by the previous generations, civil rights movement, gay marriage, women's suffrage etc - so now you have a group of young people who want to do the same but don't really have anything to go at, so they end making stuff up that looks absolutely ridiculous to anyone who isn't of the same opinion, they end up protesting against people like Germaine Greer, anyone who challenges them is "mansplaining", they are so insular they have even created safe spaces for what is supposed to be the brightest in society. We're hearing people say they can't explain to their children how this has happened, grown adults saying that they can't talk and are crying, it's pathetic.

 

I mean just look at this. (I know it's Fox but it's happening)

 

 

I actually laughed out loud when he mentioned Louis Smith and when on earth did the Gymnastic association start deciding it was going to enforce blasphemy laws?

The types you've just described are just a (sadly) very, very, very vocal minority who will hopefully grow up one day - as stoodent politician tyes have, usually, always done. As with everything, the internet's just given a massive loudhailer to anyone with an extreme view that simply didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago - meaning it looks like they represent a much larger number of people's views than they actually do. More moderate views are simply ignored because they're just not attention-grabbing enough (hence how you end up with the 'assassination' argument earlier in the thread, with the assumption being that the views of a few hand-picked people actually represent the views of the many).

 

I think it's a little unfair to assume that most people with left of centre or "progressive" views actually agree with all the examples you've just mentioned. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, purpleronnie said:

There's a lot of lefties like me who agree with what he said (see video posted), we are our own worst enemies.  I simply don't know where the left go from here. 

 

Maybe just maybe after what's happened this year we will finally realise its nobodies fault but our own and finally come to our senses and move forward.

 

But I won't hold my breath.

 

Yeah, I agree too. Mentioned on here a few times that the lack of intersectionality and infighting is a massive weakness of the left. Add that to a group of people who don't think they're being listened to and...well, you get 2016.

 

I'm not going to stop drawing attention to neanderthals using the election of Trump to justify their own hate (and they are out there and have mobilized) nor the potential for vulnerable groups getting further marginalized, but there is a decent amount of people who did vote for him simply because they felt disenfranchised, nothing more. Communicating with those people, not ignoring or writing them off, is important going forward.

 

But, I'm not holding my breath either.

[GazzinderFox]

16 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

The types you've just described are just a (sadly) very, very, very vocal minority who will hopefully grow up one day - as stoodent politician tyes have, usually, always done. As with everything, the internet's just given a massive loudhailer to anyone with an extreme view that simply didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago - meaning it looks like they represent a much larger number of people's views than they actually do. More moderate views are simply ignored because they're just not attention-grabbing enough (hence how you end up with the 'assassination' argument earlier in the thread, with the assumption being that the views of a few hand-picked people actually represent the views of the many).

 

I think it's a little unfair to assume that most people with left of centre or "progressive" views actually agree with all the examples you've just mentioned. 

Since you bring it up again, did you see that Guardian writer Monisha Rajesh tweeted just that. Then promptly deleted her account, presumably along with her short term Journo prospects... 

[Voll Blau]

1 minute ago, GazzinderFox said:

Since you bring it up again, did you see that Guardian writer Monisha Rajesh tweeted just that. Then promptly deleted her account, presumably along with her short term Journo prospects... 

I did. Very stupid.

[MC Prussian]

One of my most favourite TV shows, the Daily Show, has lost a lot of my sympathies over the course of the past twelve months or so. Ever since the primaries started, it has been nothing but a vessel for insults aimed at Republicans - and, for the past half year or so, they repeatedly dedicated about half of their show attacking Trump.

I don't like the guy, either. And the criticism is/was justified, no doubt about it. What grinds me is the repeated innuendo and the one-sided reporting approach. That's bias hiding behind the face of a "comedy show". The balance has totally been lost, it's featured plenty of reports that edged on the verge of ramblings and hissy-fits.

In my recollection, it used to be slightly better under Jon Stewart.

 

Now, I don't consider myself right-wing by any means. I vote in progressive ways, sometimes favour the arguments of the social democrats, sometimes I find the argumentation of liberals better. I pick and choose and vote in the hope that my voice adds to a balanced view in order to find a solution suitable for everyone.

What we have today, and in particular in the States, is a constant political war zone of extremes: between black and white (Republicans smearing Democrats and vice versa), good and evil ("the other's the meaner bully"), show against substance, insults versus facts.

 

So, I can somewhat understand the frustration with the media and their bias. Where do you turn to when you need objective news? Most of the media has direct or indirect ties to either the Democrats or Republicans.

The media were so desperate to convince the population that their candidate was the one - here's where the show took over, sacrificing objectivity and debate for ratings and confrontation.

I find that sad, but that's the US for ya. Emotions rule over thoughts.

 

Let's get this straight: Both parties are right-wing, one less than the other (and thus more appealing to the European left, for instance).

But let's not kid ourselves that the Republicans and the Democrats haven't ruled the US for centuries (at some point under the other's label). It's become a stalemate. The US don't know a true left and probably never will, because the two parties in charge oppose change in that regard and will never accept at least a three-party system that would guarantee more balanced discussions or more democratic outcome during elections.

 

Trump is but a puppet of the people that supported him financially and morally. His vice-president is a caricature of a right-wing demagogue, with the president-elect merely posing as the mask.

It'll take a lot of teaching and patience with Trump, because my fear right now is that he'll expose the US to some very heavy ridicule from across the globe.

[Manwell Pablo]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

No I wouldn't, I think the "progressive" movement has gone too far to realise or take any of these arguments. As he says, the cultural war is won and anyway who disagrees is obviously an idiot.

 

All the real fights for equality have now been won by the previous generations, civil rights movement, gay marriage, women's suffrage etc - so now you have a group of young people who want to do the same but don't really have anything to go at, so they end making stuff up that looks absolutely ridiculous to anyone who isn't of the same opinion, they end up protesting against people like Germaine Greer, anyone who challenges them is "mansplaining", they are so insular they have even created safe spaces for what is supposed to be the brightest in society. We're hearing people say they can't explain to their children how this has happened, grown adults saying that they can't talk and are crying, it's pathetic.

 

I mean just look at this. (I know it's Fox but it's happening)

 

 

I actually laughed out loud when he mentioned Louis Smith and when on earth did the Gymnastic association start deciding it was going to enforce blasphemy laws?

 

I've seen comparisons to Hitler today. Getting laughable now.

 

Also, when urged to accept a democratic result, someone claim that "Democracy is not always right, Hitler was voted into power"