leicsmac Posted 11 November 2016 Share Posted 11 November 2016 Quite rhetoric heavy but decent article from Alex Young. https://medium.com/@alexyoung_59363/the-pendulum-swings-both-ways-61d50f6608d9#.gbiyhkwst Point 5 in particular is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 11 November 2016 Share Posted 11 November 2016 14 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Quite rhetoric heavy but decent article from Alex Young. https://medium.com/@alexyoung_59363/the-pendulum-swings-both-ways-61d50f6608d9#.gbiyhkwst Point 5 in particular is important. Just another reactionary post by a Democrat supporter who sees himself as being on the "left" - well, yeah. Left of the Republicans maybe. But you're still a conservative at heart, albeit a more liberal and social one (if that makes any sense at all). Sandcastle stuff like that rant are just the symptoms of a self-serving, depressing political machinery that leaves many voters detached and unaffected - or if affected, for the worse. He basically insists that he wants the Democrats to follow the same rule book as the Republicans did under Obama - and now oppose all things GOP. Which is childish and not something that is needed to cement the ties between the party and its base. Although Point 5 does seem rather reasonable. I disagree with his input that the Democrats lost a lot of blue-collar votes. It's not just that. Millions of African Americans just couldn't be bothered to vote at all (partially because the Obama factor is no longer in effect). Hillary Clinton simply didn't appeal to a lot of voters or to the ones who were fatally in for a simplistic and short-sighted "radical" change, trying to stick two fingers up the political establishment in Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 11 November 2016 Share Posted 11 November 2016 6 minutes ago, MC Prussian said: Just another reactionary post by a Democrat supporter who sees himself as being on the "left" - well, yeah. Left of the Republicans maybe. But you're still a conservative at heart, albeit a more liberal and social one (if that makes any sense at all). Sandcastle stuff like that rant are just the symptoms of a self-serving, depressing political machinery that leaves many voters detached and unaffected - or if affected, for the worse. He basically insists that he wants the Democrats to follow the same rule book as the Republicans did under Obama - and now oppose all things GOP. Which is childish and not something that is needed to cement the ties between the party and its base. Although Point 5 does seem rather reasonable. I disagree with his input that the Democrats lost a lot of blue-collar votes. It's not just that. Millions of African Americans just couldn't be bothered to vote at all (partially because the Obama factor is no longer in effect). Hillary Clinton simply didn't appeal to a lot of voters or to the ones who were simply in for a simplistic and short-sighted "radical" change, trying to stick two fingers up the political establishment in Washington. Yeah, i did say it was rhetoric heavy but there's a few nuggets of good points buried in there. Reading obstructionism, why should the Dems seek to obtain the moral high ground in that particular way by going along with bills that neither they nor their support agree with? It didn't do them any good trying to be conciliatory while in power, and it certainly didn't do the Repubs any harm not to do so. The Repubs understand it's about winning. I'm not sure the Dems do. The reduction in the black vote was definitely a very large factor, but barring another leader in the Obama mould that isn't really going to change, so the Dems really do need to reconnect with decent people they left behind. And yes, choice of candidate is crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 11 November 2016 Share Posted 11 November 2016 49 minutes ago, leicsmac said: he reduction in the black vote was definitely a very large factor, but barring another leader in the Obama mould that isn't really going to change, so the Dems really do need to reconnect with decent people they left behind. And yes, choice of candidate is crucial. It seems to me that they need an anti-establishment figure of their own, but I don't think the turkeys are ready to vote for christmas just yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 November 2016 Share Posted 12 November 2016 20 hours ago, GazzinderFox said: It seems to me that they need an anti-establishment figure of their own, but I don't think the turkeys are ready to vote for christmas just yet! They'll probably throw up Jay-Z for 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 12 November 2016 Share Posted 12 November 2016 1 hour ago, MattP said: They'll probably throw up Jay-Z for 2020. Blasphemy. #kanye2020 all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 12 November 2016 Share Posted 12 November 2016 Here's an excellent article from Ian Jack in today's Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/12/nativism-racism-anti-migrant-sentiment Wasn't sure where to post it as has relevance to Trump's triumph in the US Rust Belt and to the Brexit vote in places like Sunderland (and to populism on the continent). It refers back to some research done in 1969 in Blackburn with the textile industry struggling and the first Asian immigrant communities having been established. The research was done by a journalist named Jeremy Seabrook, who's still around (I even attended an evening class he gave in London in the 80s). This bit seems particularly relevant (remembering that he wrote this in 1969!): "In the front room of her terraced house, a Mrs Frost gathers some neighbours to meet Seabrook. It is as good a bit of writing on the subject as I have ever read. They talk angrily and emotionally about immigration until the paroxysm spends itself and 'a certain uneasiness [comes over] the room, a sense of shame, the shame of people who have unburdened themselves to a stranger'. Seabrook believes he has witnessed an expression of pain and powerlessness brought on by the 'decay and dereliction' of their own lives and surroundings as much as by the unfamiliar dress, language and behaviour of their new neighbours. This feeling had found no outlet, politically or otherwise. All the writer can say is that it’s 'something more complex and deep-rooted than what the metropolitan liberal evasively and easily dismisses as prejudice' ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxes_rule1978 Posted 12 November 2016 Share Posted 12 November 2016 I would never have thought someone like Trump couple be president but like brexit this is a stand against how countries in the west are managed. They don't look after their citizens and seem more determined to sort out issues else where whilst the working class in their own country is left with f all. The goverment are blind to the issues in their own country and the people have again spoken to ensure they realise that. They want to be heard and they want the top to start looking after them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 12 November 2016 Share Posted 12 November 2016 2 5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Here's an excellent article from Ian Jack in today's Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/12/nativism-racism-anti-migrant-sentiment Wasn't sure where to post it as has relevance to Trump's triumph in the US Rust Belt and to the Brexit vote in places like Sunderland (and to populism on the continent). It refers back to some research done in 1969 in Blackburn with the textile industry struggling and the first Asian immigrant communities having been established. The research was done by a journalist named Jeremy Seabrook, who's still around (I even attended an evening class he gave in London in the 80s). This bit seems particularly relevant (remembering that he wrote this in 1969!): "In the front room of her terraced house, a Mrs Frost gathers some neighbours to meet Seabrook. It is as good a bit of writing on the subject as I have ever read. They talk angrily and emotionally about immigration until the paroxysm spends itself and 'a certain uneasiness [comes over] the room, a sense of shame, the shame of people who have unburdened themselves to a stranger'. Seabrook believes he has witnessed an expression of pain and powerlessness brought on by the 'decay and dereliction' of their own lives and surroundings as much as by the unfamiliar dress, language and behaviour of their new neighbours. This feeling had found no outlet, politically or otherwise. All the writer can say is that it’s 'something more complex and deep-rooted than what the metropolitan liberal evasively and easily dismisses as prejudice' ". Now, those were wise and relevant words .People today are born with them established, and to them, is the norm. In my childhood and early youth, I never saw a black face in this country. It began en masse, so to speak when I was in my late teens, and experienced the transition, of the way of life which was "normal" to me being changed dramatically over the year. Perhaps those who despise the older generation, as being racist, should try and understand how their traditional way of life was affected, by this huge change, and was difficult to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 12 November 2016 Share Posted 12 November 2016 Came across a passage from Richard Rooty and the book "Achieving Our Country". Written in 1998, right now it seems to be astonishingly prescient. "Many writers on socioeconomic policy have warned that the old industrialized democracies are heading into a Weimar-like period, one in which populist movements are likely to overturn constitutional governments. Edward Luttwak, for example, has suggested that fascism may be the American future. The point of his book The Endangered American Dream is that members of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white-collar workers—themselves desperately afraid of being downsized—are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else. At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for—someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots. A scenario like that of Sinclair Lewis’ novel It Can’t Happen Here may then be played out. For once a strongman takes office, nobody can predict what will happen. In 1932, most of the predictions made about what would happen if Hindenburg named Hitler chancellor were wildly overoptimistic. One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion. The words “n*****” and “k***” will once again be heard in the workplace. All the sadism which the academic Left has tried to make unacceptable to its students will come flooding back. All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet." The government has failed the unskilled workers and the suburban white collar workers just as the passage says. The populist strongman assuring them that the intellectuals can "no longer tell them how to think" has been elected. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 Now that Trump has won the election due to the Electoral College, yet with 200'000 votes less than Clinton, mass protests across the US continue. Good luck with getting an official decision overturned in favour of the fraction that lost. I shouldn't laugh, but Turkey has now warned its citizens not to travel to the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 It seems that Trump wants America to ally with Russia and join with Assad in Syria at the expense of relations with the west, in particular Britain. This is from the Telegraph: "Britain is facing a diplomatic crisis with the United States over Donald Trump's plans to forge an alliance with Vladimir Putin and bolster the Syrian regime. In a significant foreign policy split, officials admitted that Britain will have some "very difficult" conversations with the president-elect in the coming months over his approach to Russia. It comes after Mr Trump used his first interviews since winning the election to indicate that he will withdraw support for rebels in Syria and thanked Vladimir Putin for sending him a "beautiful" letter. Mr Trump said he will instead join forces with Russia and focus on defeating Islamic State (IS). He has previously said it would be "nice" if the US and Russia could work together to "knock the hell out of" IS. His views are in stark contrast to those of Theresa May, who has accused President Bashar al-Assad's regime of perpetrating "atrocious violence" and said that the long-term future of Syria must be "without Assad". The dramatic shift in US policy has prompted significant concern in the Foreign Office, and Britain will use the next two months before Mr Trump enters the White House to try to convince him of the importance of removing Assad from power. Mr Johnson is expected to fly to the US within weeks to meet senior figures in Mr Trump's incoming administration and make clear Britain believes Assad must go. Mr Trump told the Wall Street Journal his administration will prioritise defeating IS in Syria rather than removing Assad. He said: "I've had an opposite view of many people regarding Syria. My attitude was you're fighting Syria, Syria is fighting [IS], and you have to get rid of [IS]. "Russia is now totally aligned with Syria, and now you have Iran, which is becoming powerful, because of us, is aligned with Syria. Now we're backing rebels against Syria, and we have no idea who these people are." He said that if the US attacks Assad's regime "we end up fighting Russia". Trump is already destabilising relations with NATO and this can only be a bad thing for Europe and our allies. By shunning Britain's fight alongside Syrian rebels against the Assad regime he will further destabilise the middle east dragging anti-Assad countries into the conflict. This could get seriously bad all because Trump is a hawkish man and wants revenge, possibly rightly so, on IS. I feel he is going the wrong way about it in siding with Putin who wants NATO dismantled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 Anyone quoting the telegraph / sun / daily mail as a source of clean opinion and objective reporting needs to stay away from the internet honestly are people mental ? The paper barons are turning up the rhetoric it's great for income !!!! and it's all bullshite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 Assad has done nothing wrong that Egypt or turkey for example has done ....only thing different is he refused to be bitch whipped by the NeoCon west and their banks ! Why arent we invading and bombing Egypt and Turkey ??? Have people forgotten Assads royal visit ? Trump and putin will sort this mess out , Teresa can't even organise an orderly brexit ! So happy that Trump has been eleceted ! The world needs the US and Russians working together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 2 minutes ago, GaelicFox said: Assad has done nothing wrong that Egypt for example has done ....only thing different is he refused to be bitch whipped by the NeoCon west and their banks ! Have people forgotten his royal visit ? Trump and putin will sort this mess out , Teresa can't even organise an orderly brexit ! So happy that Trump has been eleceted ! The world needs the US and Russians working together Was just about to say something like this ... Regardless of your thoughts on what is happening in Syria the fact that these two nutjobs are 'friends' means the world, for now, can sleep a bit easier. If they ever decide to go head to head ... Oh fook !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 6 minutes ago, GaelicFox said: Assad has done nothing wrong that Egypt or turkey for example has done ....only thing different is he refused to be bitch whipped by the NeoCon west and their banks ! You missed out 'Soros' and 'Goldman Sachs'. 6/10. Now back to your homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 29 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Was just about to say something like this ... Regardless of your thoughts on what is happening in Syria the fact that these two nutjobs are 'friends' means the world, for now, can sleep a bit easier. If they ever decide to go head to head ... Oh fook !! They won't they only care about cash !!! Dick swinging isn't inmortant cash is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMX11 Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 Gaelic is correct about the neocons, unfortunately they have infested a lot of the conservative party as well (Johnson, Gove, Fox etc) Will be interesting to see who Trump appoints as his foreign policy advisors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 28 minutes ago, bovril said: You missed out 'Soros' and 'Goldman Sachs'. 6/10. Now back to your homework. Banks covers both , soros is an unregulated banking cretin and don't get me started on the Mossad Cash machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 13 November 2016 Share Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, SMX11 said: Gaelic is correct about the neocons, unfortunately they have infested a lot of the conservative party as well (Johnson, Gove, Fox etc) Will be interesting to see who Trump appoints as his foreign policy advisors. Yes I agree I'm fascinated to see who he rocks up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 November 2016 Share Posted 14 November 2016 Anyone else noticed the huge surge in Obama/Biden memes in the last few days? Some of them are excellent, and it's nice to have a laugh in these times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 November 2016 Share Posted 14 November 2016 http://gizmodo.com/10-headlines-from-the-white-houses-new-chief-strategist-1788935071?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Gizmodo_facebook And introducing Trumps new chief strategist, formerly working at Breitbart, Stephen Bannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 14 November 2016 Share Posted 14 November 2016 On 11/13/2016 at 17:29, GaelicFox said: Anyone quoting the telegraph / sun / daily mail as a source of clean opinion and objective reporting needs to stay away from the internet * honestly are people mental ? The paper barons are turning up the rhetoric it's great for income !!!! and it's all bullshite Where do you get your "news" from, then that doesn't have some rhetoric or imbalance/non-political views and that isn't out for profit? I hope it's not the Catholic Times. *Don't be so condescending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 14 November 2016 Share Posted 14 November 2016 11 minutes ago, Parafox said: Where do you get your "news" from, then that doesn't have some rhetoric or imbalance/non-political views and that isn't out for profit? I hope it's not the Catholic Times. *Don't be so condescending. The Beano my appologies it wasn't directed just at you but I'm sorry it did sound condescending I'm not a catholic by the way , bit stereotypical but being that you may be an exPara I wouldn't have expected much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 14 November 2016 Share Posted 14 November 2016 Accepted GF, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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