Slimani

[boobagab]

4 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I don't see why I should "contextualize" his stats when he is not playing as opposed to when he actually is on the pitch. That's like me saying "Imagine we had two apples. Now you simply have to believe one of them is an orange".

 

The Chelsea loss should not have been in that list, correct.

 

The PL stats with Slimani as a starter read as follows:

W 4 D 2 L 5

 

Well no, you should contextualize it if your entire argument hinges upon criticizing Slimani for playing a part of Leicester's awful performances. If that's the case, why do you ignore that their losses were even worse when he wasn't on the pitch?

 

I mean, if you told me Zieler is a suspect keeper and played a part in Leicester's losses when Schmeichel had a broken hand, would it not makes sense to show how the team does without Zieler on the pitch?

 

 

[Thracian]

7 hours ago, the fox said:

Some interesting slimani stats here:

 

Slimani has 7 goals in all competitions, and only one of them did not lead to points (the header vs WBA)

 

6 of his 7 goals were even an equalizer(2 vs WBA and boro) or a game winner (2 goals in a 1-0 victory against Porto and west ham+ the opining goals vs stoke and Burnley)

 

Slimani opened the score for the team with 4 of his 7 goals (vs Porto, west ham, Burnley and stoke) 

 

Slimani has 4 assists in all compilations, 3 of them led to us opining the score (1 in the CL to mahrez, 1 vs man city to vardy and 1 vs palace to musa) while the other one was to make it 2-0 vs man city (king's goal)

 

I don't know about you, but that is pretty impressive.

No-one is doubting that Slimani has ability. Any more than anyone is unaware that we've just won six games on the trot.  

[STUHILL]

11 minutes ago, Thracian said:

No-one is doubting that Slimani has ability. Any more than anyone is unaware that we've just won six games on the trot.  

I think a lot are to be fair. He has been called a donkey on here many times already. Unfairly so IMO. Many can't seem to look past his transfer fee even though we have a billionaire owner and a huge tv deal. People need to stop treating transfer fees like it was their own money and that it actually means anything to these owners

[MC Prussian]

54 minutes ago, boobagab said:

 

Well no, you should contextualize it if your entire argument hinges upon criticizing Slimani for playing a part of Leicester's awful performances. If that's the case, why do you ignore that their losses were even worse when he wasn't on the pitch?

 

I mean, if you told me Zieler is a suspect keeper and played a part in Leicester's losses when Schmeichel had a broken hand, would it not makes sense to show how the team does without Zieler on the pitch?

 

 

Well, no. I simply look at Slimani's stats when he's played for more than 45 minutes (bar one game where he's just come back from injury) as a measure to show that you can use stats in any way you want to - just like you can talk about Slimani's goals on their own as a single argument taken out of context because he's played in a lot more games where he did not score.

 

In the end, I'm trying to put his "impact" into relation. And that you cannot do when you don't use games where he hasn't played. Simples.

[ZeGuy]

1 hour ago, Thracian said:

No-one is doubting that Slimani has ability. Any more than anyone is unaware that we've just won six games on the trot.  

You don't read the comments very often then. He's after Musa and Zieler the most abused player on FT.

[boobagab]

19 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Well, no. I simply look at Slimani's stats when he's played for more than 45 minutes (bar one game where he's just come back from injury) as a measure to show that you can use stats in any way you want to - just like you can talk about Slimani's goals on their own as a single argument taken out of context because he's played in a lot more games where he did not score.

 

In the end, I'm trying to put his "impact" into relation. And that you cannot do when you don't use games where he hasn't played. Simples.

 

That's fair. If you use Slimani's impact, isn't it best to consider all his matches? He's played poorly in some wins and well in some of the losses. 

 

Just take a look at the match vs. Stoke (away). City was losing 2-0 when he was subbed. Immediately after Ulloa came on in his place, he scored a goal and Leicester ended up securing a draw. If you look at the table, it'd be credited as a 'draw' for Slimani when in actuality he was woeful - the team had a two goal swing with him off the pitch. 

 

 

[foxinsocks]

For the stats to be useful we would have to understand the games where he was ineffective as a starter or effective as a starter... where he wss effective as a sub and ineffective as a sub.... then we would have to look at the quality and strength of the opositions ... and also our own tactics...  to try work out when he is useful and when useless.

A better apporach is to look at his stenfths and weaknesses and the to see if he is gettibg better at either. ...imo he needs 1 to 1 mentoribg to develpp tge skills and habits of a leading pl cf.... he could do it but he needs to knuckle down and a specialist trainibg regime. ...   he vost 39m and i think the club shoukd work with him to make him great.... i am thinkind of writing to vichai to say so

[STUHILL]

6 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

For the stats to be useful we would have to understand the games where he was ineffective as a starter or effective as a starter... where he wss effective as a sub and ineffective as a sub.... then we would have to look at the quality and strength of the opositions ... and also our own tactics...  to try work out when he is useful and when useless.

A better apporach is to look at his stenfths and weaknesses and the to see if he is gettibg better at either. ...imo he needs 1 to 1 mentoribg to develpp tge skills and habits of a leading pl cf.... he could do it but he needs to knuckle down and a specialist trainibg regime. ...   he vost 39m and i think the club shoukd work with him to make him great.... i am thinkind of writing to vichai to say so

Open letters on here work well... 

[Redouane]

Slimani with the Mahrez chop + goal [skip to 5:40]

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

He's great in the air, deadly in fact, and is mobile enough to close people down in an effective manor. I missed all the shit about his celebration but he's been doing that celebration for years, pretty sure he did against Burnley, not sure why anyone would have an issue with it anyway.

 

His issue for me is he's been found wanting with the ball at his feet at this level, have seen him run pretty much through people playing for sporting, in this league he looks clumsy and would struggle to skin a traffic cone. Not saying he can't improve on that though.

[STUHILL]

11 minutes ago, Redouane said:

Slimani with the Mahrez chop + goal [skip to 5:40]

 

 

 

I thought he was fantastic in this game for us and you can see a number of things he does well and how we could benefit from his strengths

[Bayfox]

4 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

 

I thought he was fantastic in this game for us and you can see a number of things he does well and how we could benefit from his strengths

I think those knocking him myself included have an issue with benefiting from his strengths as it means changing style. And claudio found to his cost with this set of players that doesn't mean success or we accept he is essentially a very expensive sub/plan b. 

 

Whislt i accept that isn't the worst thing afterall i still have no idea what plan a was this season under claudio let alone plan b. I won't buy the arguement we should accept 30 million as normal and deal with it i also don't think we should tolerate his body language and lack of effort in certain games just becaus he scores a header every so often.

 

I don't doubt his record. But having not watched Portuguese football for his years there at a top club i just doubt his effectiveness for us over 90 mins 38 times a season. And i doubt he wants to be seen as a super sub.

[STUHILL]

5 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

I think those knocking him myself included have an issue with benefiting from his strengths as it means changing style. And claudio found to his cost with this set of players that doesn't mean success or we accept he is essentially a very expensive sub/plan b. 

 

Whislt i accept that isn't the worst thing afterall i still have no idea what plan a was this season under claudio let alone plan b. I won't buy the arguement we should accept 30 million as normal and deal with it i also don't think we should tolerate his body language and lack of effort in certain games just becaus he scores a header every so often.

 

I don't doubt his record. But having not watched Portuguese football for his years there at a top club i just doubt his effectiveness for us over 90 mins 38 times a season. And i doubt he wants to be seen as a super sub.

It's comments like that, which makes it hard for me to accept that you don't have a clouded judgement. 

 

He has played the equivalent of 11 full games in the Premier League. He has score 6 times. 

 

Working on that basis, he COULD score 21 goals in a 38 game season of 90 minutes. They are basic calculations I know, but I think it does put the 'scores a header every so often' comment into the context of a full season. 

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, ZeGuy said:

You don't read the comments very often then. He's after Musa and Zieler the most abused player on FT.

Being called all sorts of things doesn't negate or necessarily question his ability. Some critics may be blinded by their own eyelids just as some of Slimani's promoters clearly let the guys strengths obliterate his weaknesses but I fail to see how any fair-minded judge would doubt the man's talent and threat in and around the penalty box. The debate though, is about much more than that.       

[boobagab]

11 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

i also don't think we should tolerate his body language and lack of effort in certain games just becaus he scores a header every so often.

 

I don't doubt his record. But having not watched Portuguese football for his years there at a top club i just doubt his effectiveness for us over 90 mins 38 times a season. And i doubt he wants to be seen as a super sub.

I think accusing a player of lack of effort and bad body language is an enormous charge. Do you actually have evidence of it? 

 

Fans have been enormously fickle about everything. There was someone in the post match thread accusing him of not celebrating Vardy's goal. Another person whined about his goal celebration. I've been to most of the home matches this season and I can tell you he used that goal celebration vs. West Ham and Burnley. It's absolutely insane to me that we are discussing things like this. 

 

[Bayfox]

1 minute ago, boobagab said:

I think accusing a player of lack of effort and bad body language is an enormous charge. Do you actually have evidence of it? 

 

Fans have been enormously fickle about everything. There was someone in the post match thread accusing him of not celebrating Vardy's goal. Another person whined about his goal celebration. I've been to most of the home matches this season and I can tell you he used that goal celebration vs. West Ham and Burnley. It's absolutely insane to me that we are discussing things like this. 

 

Did you go west ham? If so you know. If not i'll go with case closed. If i had been Albrighton that day i'd have knocked him clean out and he wouldn't have been fit to turn in his cross Tuesday.

 

There are plenty of examples of him needlessly waving, shouting and pointing for no apparent reason and i don't think he has earnt that right at leicester yet.

 

 

[Bayfox]

10 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

It's comments like that, which makes it hard for me to accept that you don't have a clouded judgement. 

 

He has played the equivalent of 11 full games in the Premier League. He has score 6 times. 

 

Working on that basis, he COULD score 21 goals in a 38 game season of 90 minutes. They are basic calculations I know, but I think it does put the 'scores a header every so often' comment into the context of a full season. 

Maybe he could. IF we played to his strengths i'm not doubting what he's good at but he smacks to me of a very pearson signing and as i have stated before i think we have moved away from that. 

 

Even the goal tuesday Albrighton had to cut back onto his good foot to cross. Gray hardly ever crosses and mahrez always comes inside.

 

Now put slim in a box with beckham on the wing. He'd have made RVN look shit.

 

So for me it's more a question of are we sticking with what we know works at the minute. Or trying to evolve a different style. I guess we will find out this summer.

[Thracian]

11 minutes ago, boobagab said:

I think accusing a player of lack of effort and bad body language is an enormous charge. Do you actually have evidence of it? 

 

Fans have been enormously fickle about everything. There was someone in the post match thread accusing him of not celebrating Vardy's goal. Another person whined about his goal celebration. I've been to most of the home matches this season and I can tell you he used that goal celebration vs. West Ham and Burnley. It's absolutely insane to me that we are discussing things like this. 

 

It would be far more "insane" for any social site to stifle debate given that it feeds on the meat of controversy and differing opinion for its very existence.     

[boobagab]

1 minute ago, Bayfox said:

Did you go west ham? If so you know. If not i'll go with case closed. If i had been Albrighton that day i'd have knocked him clean out and he wouldn't have been fit to turn in his cross Tuesday.

 

There are plenty of examples of him needlessly waving, shouting and pointing for no apparent reason and i don't think he has earnt that right at leicester yet.

 

 

I went to West Ham's match in December when they were at home. He had the celebration and played alright. Leicester barely won that one. 

 

What was wrong with West Ham away? Slimani literally played 15 minutes and the team was defending the entire time he was on the pitch. Him and Musa were just keeping West Ham's CBs from roaming up. 

 

Also, Slimani's not needlessly waving and shouting. He's literally directing the press and telling the midfield where they should be. This is something most forwards do. Vardy does it in the middle of matches for as long as I remember. There's nothing wrong with that. And I don't see how a forward taking the initiative to rally the midfield is a bad thing. I see Huth and Morgan barking stuff at the midfield the entire game. It's part of what playing as a team entails. The fact that you're highlighting this as a negative thing is highly questionable. 

 

You're also conveniently ignoring the time's Slimani claps and puts his thumbs up after every cross he gets, whether it's over his head or on target. 

 

Once again, extremely fickle observations grounded entirely on projections. 

[STUHILL]

2 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

Did you go west ham? If so you know. If not i'll go with case closed. If i had been Albrighton that day i'd have knocked him clean out and he wouldn't have been fit to turn in his cross Tuesday.

 

There are plenty of examples of him needlessly waving, shouting and pointing for no apparent reason and i don't think he has earnt that right at leicester yet.

 

 

The guy came on with 14 minutes to go, and we were blindly hoofing everything clear any chance we got, leaving him on his own upfront with no support for closing down. If you are using 14 minutes plus stoppage time in a game where 10 of our players were planted in our own area and had no intention of playing or supporting any attacks, then that is very harsh. 

[STUHILL]

3 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

Maybe he could. IF we played to his strengths i'm not doubting what he's good at but he smacks to me of a very pearson signing and as i have stated before i think we have moved away from that. 

 

Even the goal tuesday Albrighton had to cut back onto his good foot to cross. Gray hardly ever crosses and mahrez always comes inside.

 

Now put slim in a box with beckham on the wing. He'd have made RVN look shit.

 

So for me it's more a question of are we sticking with what we know works at the minute. Or trying to evolve a different style. I guess we will find out this summer.

Mahrez and Slimani are proving pretty lethal for Algeria and that also showed for some of Slimani's goals here, with Mahrez assisting. 

 

I think having a guy in the box who can take advantage of the excellent crosses from Mahrez and Albrighton, is a big bonus. Gray is 20 and will learn. He can beat a man with ease, so once he starts making the right choices and delivering crosses, then there won't be many better to have in there, than Slimani. 

 

If Slimani can drop deeper like he did well against Sunderland, and then get himself in the box, then we could have a decent partnership on our hands. 

 

We rely so heavily on Vardy to score the goals, so adding another and different goal threat to that, would really improve our chances of scoring. 

 

I understand the importance of Okazaki and I can see him playing a role in this season and the next, but we have shown we are able to play a 4-4-2 with Vardy and Slimani and it is too early to write it off yet. 

 

 

[Bayfox]

15 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

The guy came on with 14 minutes to go, and we were blindly hoofing everything clear any chance we got, leaving him on his own upfront with no support for closing down. If you are using 14 minutes plus stoppage time in a game where 10 of our players were planted in our own area and had no intention of playing or supporting any attacks, then that is very harsh. 

No i'm watching what actually happened when he came on. Offered **** all. Didn't chase. Had an altercation of words with a team mate who clearly felt he should have at least made some sort of effort to get on the end of a ball. Or put the defender inder pressure not just stop in his stride and complain.

 

Maybe we are spoilt by vardys efforts. Or i remember heskey fondly for doing the same and i never saw claridge cottee or marshall complain to much.

 

And i don't have every home match this season on tape. But there's been plenty more moaning about causes i would consider not lost. 

 

I've said i accept he has his qualities but they are limited.

 

And as for the relpy above. About vardy that the same vardy that was doing it early season when we were playing shite and most fans have now accepted that being down to claudio asking vardy to stop doing what had got him to the top. I have barely seen vardy complain or even point in the last few weeks because he's happy being allowed to play again

 

I'm not trying to murder slim but i do think he would be better served in a team like burnley as an example. We aren't set up for him to thrive in my opinion. That's not to say i think he's a cart horse either.

 

Ignoring the 10 men part. Pretty sure chillwell played him in once and stuck another brilliant ball across the 6 yard box and he wasted both.

[Bayfox]

1 minute ago, STUHILL said:

Mahrez and Slimani are proving pretty lethal for Algeria and that also showed for some of Slimani's goals here, with Mahrez assisting. 

 

I think having a guy in the box who can take advantage of the excellent crosses from Mahrez and Albrighton, is a big bonus. Gray is 20 and will learn. He can beat a man with ease, so once he starts making the right choices and delivering crosses, then there won't be many better to have in there, than Slimani. 

 

If Slimani can drop deeper like he did well against Sunderland, and then get himself in the box, then we could have a decent partnership on our hands. 

 

We rely so heavily on Vardy to score the goals, so adding another and different goal threat to that, would really improve our chances of scoring. 

 

I understand the importance of Okazaki and I can see him playing a role in this season and the next, but we have shown we are able to play a 4-4-2 with Vardy and Slimani and it is too early to write it off yet. 

 

 

I guess who gets the job in the summer will have a say.

 

But i feel with playing 2 inverted wingers or whatever they like to call it negates part of slims game. Attacking crosses is still better than glancing drifted crosses. He did well on tuesday with Albrightons ball. But i'd imagine he'd love a player to go to the byline and drive over 5 or 6 crosses a game.

 

Will be interesting to see how we evolve over the summer. If nothing else.

[Manwell Pablo]

24 minutes ago, boobagab said:

I think accusing a player of lack of effort and bad body language is an enormous charge. Do you actually have evidence of it? 

 

Fans have been enormously fickle about everything. There was someone in the post match thread accusing him of not celebrating Vardy's goal. Another person whined about his goal celebration. I've been to most of the home matches this season and I can tell you he used that goal celebration vs. West Ham and Burnley. It's absolutely insane to me that we are discussing things like this. 

 

 

Who actually complained about his celebrations and why ffs.

 

its his celebration, in fact if you score a goal with him on FIFA and hit the trademark celebration button that's exactly what he does. 

[STUHILL]

4 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

No i'm watching what actually happened when he came on. Offered **** all. Didn't chase. Had an altercation of words with a team mate who clearly felt he should have at least made some sort of effort to get on the end of a ball. Or put the defender inder pressure not just stop in his stride and complain.

 

Maybe we are spoilt by vardys efforts. Or i remember heskey fondly for doing the same and i never saw claridge cottee or marshall complain to much.

 

And i don't have every home match this season on tape. But there's been plenty more moaning about causes i would consider not lost. 

 

I've said i accept he has his qualities but they are limited.

 

And as for the relpy above. About vardy that the same vardy that was doing it early season when we were playing shite and most fans have now accepted that being down to claudio asking vardy to stop doing what had got him to the top. I have barely seen vardy complain or even point in the last few weeks because he's happy being allowed to play again

 

I'm not trying to murder slim but i do think he would be better served in a team like burnley as an example. We aren't set up for him to thrive in my opinion. That's not to say i think he's a cart horse either.

If you are taking a 14 minute appearance and judging on that, then we should look at his most recent appearance too. 

28minutes from the bench. He scored. He closed down. He worked hard. No negative body language. Him and Vardy worked together in the 4-4-2. 

You can't look past that surely. 

 

I think there is some way to go before anyone can decide if he will be a success here or not. I'm surprised that many are suggesting he probably won't be, as 6 goals in 11 full games suggests otherwise, but there is some way to go but I would conclude, that the signs are more promising than not.