Climate change

[davieG]

US President Donald Trump is due to sign an executive order to overturn key parts of the Obama administration's plan to tackle global warming.

The move will undo the Clean Power Plan which required states to slash carbon emissions.

The executive order also cuts the Environmental Protection Agency's budget. Regulations on oil, gas and coal production are to be reviewed.

Mr Trump has promised to remove green rules which he says hurt the economy

During the campaign, he vowed to pull the US out of the Paris climate deal agreed in December 2015.

The White House said the new measures would "help keep energy and electricity affordable, reliable and clean in order to boost economic growth and job creation".

But environmental groups warn that they will have serious consequences at home and abroad.

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, davieG said:

US President Donald Trump is due to sign an executive order to overturn key parts of the Obama administration's plan to tackle global warming.

The move will undo the Clean Power Plan which required states to slash carbon emissions.

The executive order also cuts the Environmental Protection Agency's budget. Regulations on oil, gas and coal production are to be reviewed.

Mr Trump has promised to remove green rules which he says hurt the economy

During the campaign, he vowed to pull the US out of the Paris climate deal agreed in December 2015.

The White House said the new measures would "help keep energy and electricity affordable, reliable and clean in order to boost economic growth and job creation".

But environmental groups warn that they will have serious consequences at home and abroad.

 

It's funny. Economies don't mean much to dead civilisations. Or at least ones falling apart through famine and thirst due to corrupted land and water.

[Wymsey]

Some academic has predicted that land on Everton's proposed new stadium next to the River Mersey will be watered over by 2100 due to rising sea level effects.

[Webbo]

7 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Some academic has predicted that land on Everton's proposed new stadium next to the River Mersey will be watered over by 2100 due to rising sea level effects.

They'll have to send on a sub.

[yorkie1999]

Wonder if that means vw wont have to pay 13 billion to the US then.

[leicsmac]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-39524196

 

So...what else is causing this mass coral bleaching on a more and more regular basis then? Divers been down there with the white paint?

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-39524196

 

So...what else is causing this mass coral bleaching on a more and more regular basis then? Divers been down there with the white paint?

Nobody is saying the climate isn't changing, it's been changing for ever. It's whether it's down to human actions.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Nobody is saying the climate isn't changing, it's been changing for ever. It's whether it's down to human actions.

Five people in the poll above say differently - unless of course they don't really believe that and are just having a laugh. You could probably find a similar minority percentage in the general population.

 

But in any case AFAIC the difference is irrelevant anyway - if things are changing, does it really matter whether or not humans were responsible, except to point fingers/wash hands of it? It's not going to make what happens any less dramatic, apart from possibly giving some folk a little warm satisfaction knowing that they "weren't responsible" for it.

 

That whole discussion is a distraction designed to obfuscate and thus maintain the status quo because people in power don't want to deal with it, nothing more IMO. What matters is response. And right now there either isn't much of one and/or it's pretty ineffective.

[Detroit Blues]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Five people in the poll above say differently - unless of course they don't really believe that and are just having a laugh. You could probably find a similar minority percentage in the general population.

 

But in any case AFAIC the difference is irrelevant anyway - if things are changing, does it really matter whether or not humans were responsible, except to point fingers/wash hands of it? It's not going to make what happens any less dramatic, apart from possibly giving some folk a little warm satisfaction knowing that they "weren't responsible" for it.

 

That whole discussion is a distraction designed to obfuscate and thus maintain the status quo because people in power don't want to deal with it, nothing more IMO. What matters is response. And right now there either isn't much of one and/or it's pretty ineffective.

 

[Smudge]

On the other hand, delaying the next ice age might not be a bad idea.

Edited 10 April 2017 by Smudge

[Webbo]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Five people in the poll above say differently - unless of course they don't really believe that and are just having a laugh. You could probably find a similar minority percentage in the general population.

 

But in any case AFAIC the difference is irrelevant anyway - if things are changing, does it really matter whether or not humans were responsible, except to point fingers/wash hands of it? It's not going to make what happens any less dramatic, apart from possibly giving some folk a little warm satisfaction knowing that they "weren't responsible" for it.

 

That whole discussion is a distraction designed to obfuscate and thus maintain the status quo because people in power don't want to deal with it, nothing more IMO. What matters is response. And right now there either isn't much of one and/or it's pretty ineffective.

Well if it's not human action that caused it, what can we do to stop it?

[yorkie1999]

10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Well if it's not human action that caused it, what can we do to stop it?

Nothing, but the human ego will find a solution (that won't work), after all, Bruce Willis managed to stop an asteroid hitting us once. I'm just glad i wasn't around when we had real global warming that evaporated oceans.

Edited 10 April 2017 by yorkie1999

[leicsmac]

43 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Well if it's not human action that caused it, what can we do to stop it?

Yeah, I figured that would be the next question.

 

If that is the case, then it's likely the best we can do is prepare for the changes that it causes. But that isn't happening either - various powers are only too happy to kick the can down the road.

 

But, on the off-chance that the cause it at least partly human (this is likely, oddly enough), then there are measures that can be taken to help at least mitigate the consequences and allow more time to prepare for what's coming.

[Buce]

On ‎29‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 07:56, Webbo said:

They'll have to send on a sub.

 

Or sign Jesus from Man City..

[Wymsey]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Or sign Jesus from Man City..

Or Moses.

[Buce]

 

A stunning example of what we can expect from global warming:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/apr/17/receding-glacier-causes-immense-canadian-river-to-vanish-in-four-days-climate-change

[Jon the Hat]

17 hours ago, Buce said:

 

A stunning example of what we can expect from global warming:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/apr/17/receding-glacier-causes-immense-canadian-river-to-vanish-in-four-days-climate-change

Wow.  Presumably it was only immense during the melt, but interesting nonetheless.

[davieG]

First coal-free day in Britain since Industrial Revolution

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, davieG said:

First coal-free day in Britain since Industrial Revolution

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39675418

 

Encouraging signs. Still lots to be done though.

[leicsmac]

Op-ed piece from the NYT that has caused a bit of a discussion:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/opinion/climate-of-complete-certainty.html?_r=0

 

In response...the scientific community has tried calm, clear, educated warnings about this matter before and been dismissed. I'm not sure how much clearer the situation can be made before this is a matter of sheer denial rather than clarity. If switching hyperbole isn't going to work either because people don't want to hear it as this columnist infers...well, frankly I'm not sure what's left.

 

Every possible way has been used by the scientific community to try to convince people, and those scientists still trying are simply getting tired of being the Cassandra. There's too much complacency, too many people not giving a toss because they'll (likely) be dead when things change.

[Guest]

It is astounding that deniers still exist despite the huge wealth of empirical data confirming what is happening. 

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, toddybad said:

It is astounding that deniers still exist despite the huge wealth of empirical data confirming what is happening. 

It was said earlier; it is so much easier for people to believe that things aren't going th change and that tomorrow is going to be just like today.

 

Add that to a campaign by various groups straight out the tobacco industry playbook, and you have a lot of doubt and therefore denial, despite the evidence.

[Strokes]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It was said earlier; it is so much easier for people to believe that things aren't going th change and that tomorrow is going to be just like today.

 

Add that to a campaign by various groups straight out the tobacco industry playbook, and you have a lot of doubt and therefore denial, despite the evidence.

Or maybe they just think change is inevitable, as it's not man made. que sera sera......

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Or maybe they just think change is inevitable, as it's not man made. que sera sera......

Exactly - they care little for a future they won't have any part in and so aren't into risk management on this particular topic.

 

It's a cute example of how short term instinct can work against a species, actually.

[sphericalfox]

Rains a comin...