Carl the Llama

Climate change

Real/not real?   88 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it a thing? Do we have anything to do with it?

    • Climate change is not real, stop worrying
    • Climate change is real but it happens regardless of human activity, stop worrying there's nothing we can do
    • Climate change is real and we are a significant contributing factor, we should be worried about it
  2. 2. Totally scientific experiment: Winter then vs now

    • Same as it ever was
    • It's definitely warmer these days
    • It's definitely colder these days

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135 posts in this topic

As requested here's a forum for the discussion of all things climate change.  Is it really happening?  Do we have anything to do with it?  Can we do anything to help prevent it?

 

 

Obviously there's a lot of scientific analysis out there to draw from on this subject but before we get bogged down in reports and statistics I'd like to start with a thought experiment I suggested in the EU thread, namely:


Think back to your childhood and compare your recollection of winters back then with the winters we have now.

 

I'm 27 years old and based on that time span, without getting any actual science involved, I conclude that it's warmer and less snowy during the winter months than it used to be.  Maybe I'm better at coping with low temperatures than I used to be, maybe I just don't notice the snow anymore, who's to say?

 

 

As far as the question of whether the climate is changing and whether or not we have anything to do with it I urge you all to look at the following link if you're unsure where you stand on this discussion (and indeed even if you are sure, it's a pretty good site):

http://climate.nasa.gov/

I don't want to make the opening post too long and raise too many questions, we have plenty of time to go over it all (if we don't get submerged by rising sea levels in the meantime that is). That site covers a lot of different areas of the debate and offers a wealth of scientific data, have fun with it!  I look forward to hearing everyone's views on this topic.

 

One final note:  I personally think it's obvious that the climate is changing and that we're an important factor.  I'm always swayed by evidence though so if any of the sceptics out there can bring something to the table that might change my mind please do, this is exactly the right place for it and it would be nice to be able to stop worrying about the legacy we're leaving.


Edited by Carl the Llama
Clicked the wrong choice in my own poll. D'oh!
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It is clearly occurring but I don't buy the catastrophic nature that some have claimed. 

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4 minutes ago, SMX11 said:

It is clearly occurring but I don't buy the catastrophic nature that some have claimed. 

 

 

I personally havnt read up enough into it to have a strong opinion either way, but i did briefly look over an article published last year that said that due to the increased carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere, there is actually an INCREASE in the amount of trees/ greenery in the world today.... The article had 'satellite evidence to prove it'

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10 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

I personally havnt read up enough into it to have a strong opinion either way, but i did briefly look over an article published last year that said that due to the increased carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere, there is actually an INCREASE in the amount of trees/ greenery in the world today.... The article had 'satellite evidence to prove it'

Yes, people seem to completely ignore the potential advantages of a generally warmer climate and more C02 in the atmosphere. I think I have read that we are living in a relatively low C02 time (in terms of the lifespan of the earth).  Cold is certainly a bigger killer than hot will ever be.

 

Like with most things politicians have latched onto this issue to further their own agendas and make it seem they are saving the earth. I think we need some humility on this issue, the best thing to do is to innovate and adapt you cannot stop this from occurring.

 

 


Edited by SMX11
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As for winters of my childhood. I can remember cold winters and mild winters, in fact I'd say cold winters were more the exception than the rule.

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3 minutes ago, MPH said:

I personally havnt read up enough into it to have a strong opinion either way, but i did briefly look over an article published last year that said that due to the increased carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere, there is actually an INCREASE in the amount of trees/ greenery in the world today.... The article had 'satellite evidence to prove it'

I suppose logically it makes sense that if you increase CO2 levels then the levels of organisms that 'feed' off it will also rise.  If you can remember where you read that article I wouldn't mind seeing it myself, I imagine it goes into a bit more detail about the implications on the rate of climate change.  Right now my best guess is that we're probably producing too much of the stuff globally for increased foliage to be reliably leant on but it's certainly an interesting avenue.

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I'm no expert but looking at the 'bigger' picture over the evolution of time, we've had ice age periods and also warmer periods haven't we?

I'm of the lazy opinion that 'what will be will be' and god or whoever's in charge dictates this kind of thing. In the grand scheme of things I'm not sure we as humans can influence climate change or make much of a difference, which is why I'm a bit passive towards it all.

Saying that, there seemed to be more snow 40 years ago when I was a kid, but I'm not sure that's because of any human intervention. I think it probably all goes in cycles and in 40 years time there will be more snow again.

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Winters seem milder and also seem to be happening later on. Remember in my childhood that winters felt normal in November/December. Nowadays it feels colder most of Jan and Feb. Snow comes around late Jan/early Feb now as well. I remember December just gone it was about 14 degrees at one point throughout the month

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cartoon-from-trenberth-ams-paper.jpg

 

2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I'm no expert but looking at the 'bigger' picture over the evolution of time, we've had ice age periods and also warmer periods haven't we?

I'm of the lazy opinion that 'what will be will be' and god or whoever's in charge dictates this kind of thing. In the grand scheme of things I'm not sure we as humans can influence climate change or make much of a difference, which is why I'm a bit passive towards it all.

Except a part of climate change is a direct response to air pollution, which is something we can control.

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10 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

cartoon-from-trenberth-ams-paper.jpg

 

Except a part of climate change is a direct response to air pollution, which is something we can control.

I'm surprised in this day and age of money and technology that we're not all driving around in electric cars by now. The smog above the worlds big cities is pretty gross to be honest. But even if we reduced air pollution from cars, we'd still be pumping crap into the air from planes, manufacturing, agriculture and other means. Would it make that much of a difference really? I dunno...

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13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Winters seem milder and also seem to be happening later on. Remember in my childhood that winters felt normal in November/December. Nowadays it feels colder most of Jan and Feb. Snow comes around late Jan/early Feb now as well. I remember December just gone it was about 14 degrees at one point throughout the month

This is pretty much my experience.  Freezing your tits off up to and beyond Christmas with good snowfall most years (though I don't think I've ever seen any at Christmas itself) has been replaced with jumper weather until January and maybe a few days with snow in the early hours. 

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12 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

This is pretty much my experience.  Freezing your tits off up to and beyond Christmas with good snowfall most years (though I don't think I've ever seen any at Christmas itself) has been replaced with jumper weather until January and maybe a few days with snow in the early hours. 

yep always used to have 'snow days' just before breaking up for school Xmas holidays. Barely get any snow or likelihood of snow in December now. 

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My two climate change denying mates keep raising the falsified Uni of East Anglia stats scandal and the NOAA figures debacle, as if they negate the rest of the science and destroy man-made climate change as a theory.

 

They are hard work...

 

:rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

My two climate change denying mates keep raising the falsified Uni of East Anglia stats scandal and the NOAA figures debacle, as if they negate the rest of the science and destroy man-made climate change as a theory.

 

They are hard work...

 

:rolleyes:

Why fake it if it's indisputable fact?

 

I can't say it's not happening but things like that don't make me less sceptical.

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3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Why fake it if it's indisputable fact?

 

I can't say it's not happening but things like that don't make me less sceptical.

 

Greed? Money? An easier life?

 

Just because *some* people faked stuff, doesn't mean there aren't hundreds (thousands?) of replicatable, peer reviewed other works of science which aren't faked.

 

 

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Just now, Vacamion said:

 

Greed? Money? An easier life?

 

Just because *some* people faked stuff, doesn't mean there aren't hundreds (thousands?) of replicatable, peer reviewed other works of science which aren't faked.

 

 

They faked stuff to prove something that wasn't there.

 

I don't see how any science can be settled, theories change all the time.

 

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3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

They faked stuff to prove something that wasn't there.

 

I don't see how any science can be settled, theories change all the time.

 

 

Gravity?

 

Electromagnetic theory?

 

(sigh) Evolution?

 

Some models fit the hypothesis and allow replicated outcomes and prediction.

 

 

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The last time we had more than a few cm of snow, I was a teenager.

 

Which is some time ago, sadly.

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9 minutes ago, Webbo said:

They faked stuff to prove something that wasn't there.

 

I don't see how any science can be settled, theories change all the time.

 

 

Oh my days.

 

Could you sound like any more of a troglodyte?

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The climate has been changing since the dawn of time, I'm not convinced we have anything to do with it. Ice age anyone?

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The old arguments regarding climate change have resurfaced. Specifically, the one where "we're not responsible for it!" or "it always changes, there's nothing we can do!"

 

Now...even if the first one were the case, why on this green (for now) Earth would we not want to take action against an issue that will one day affect us all? When the Titanic went down, people didn't ask questions about the nature of the bloody iceberg, did they? No - they made their arses safe (provided you were First Class, of course) first!

 

And the second one - well, I flirt a little bit with nihilism but accepting the inevitable future extinction of humanity because we were too lazy or ignorant to do something about it strikes even me as a bit too strong. Since when was folding your hands, offering up whatever you can to any deity you can name and dying right now an acceptable long-term survival strategy for the human race? It might be that there is indeed nothing we can do...but might it not be an idea to actually test that theory rather than just buying into the worst kind of predestination? It reeks of a total abdication of responsibility for both ourselves and the generations to come.

 

So...if someone is using either of these arguments to justify their stance on how the Earth is changing...they are self-interested and short-sighted. And the above is exactly why.

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Can someone give examples of the positives of global warming. For example , the Romans used to produce wine in England,meaning it must of been warmer. Surely more rain or warmer weather would enable farmers to produce more food in many parts of the world. All the knicker wetting over everything that happens in the world gets really tedious. I for one welcome sunny summers in Skegness and shitholes like Dubai roasting away

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8 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I just think it's bullshit. They always seem to be rebranding it as well, the green house effect, global warming, climate change. Tactics used by all good corporate advertising whores, it just adds to the scepticism. 

Ive got LED lights, I turn them off in rooms when I'm not in them, I have smart heating, I don't leave the TV in standby overnight. I have an eco car, I recycle my rubbish (mostly) but apparently that's not enough, I'm still a willy puller.

They cry wolf to you, fair enough. But be reminded about what happens at the end of that story.

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Just now, leicsmac said:

They cry wolf to you, fair enough. But be reminded about what happens at the end of that story.

Everyone made lovely gravy from the bones?

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