President Trump & the USA

[Guest MattP]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I dunno, don't Fox like to use the motto "Fair and Balanced"? Or have they dropped that now?

 

The Tweeting stuff is getting more and more ridiculous.

Dropped it last month.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/15/fox-news-drops-fair-and-balanced-slogan

 

1 hour ago, Swan Lesta said:

CNN admittedly are anti and want to keep pressure on the issues that will bring down Trump but that's no different to any other news outlet.

 

FOX are in a different league when it comes to manipulation and crazy talk.

I watched FOX a few times and never found it as bad as people have said, it's often criticised by the same types who tell you the Mail is 40 pages of racism every day - most of them have barely watched it as well beyond a Youtube clips of the worst things.

 

They certainly aren't in a "different league" to anything now we know what CNN have been upto, they have taken on a fight far bigger than they expected and will pay for it, I don't think they will ever recover from this, they are now the channel of Fake News and it's going to be hard to shift.

 

Why on earth you would go with things you have no evidence for based on a vendetta baffles me, did they really think they wouldn't get caught?

[Nick]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Dropped it last month.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/15/fox-news-drops-fair-and-balanced-slogan

 

I watched FOX a few times and never found it as bad as people have said, it's often criticised by the same types who tell you the Mail is 40 pages of racism every day - most of them have barely watched it as well beyond a Youtube clips of the worst things.

 

They certainly aren't in a "different league" to anything now we know what CNN have been upto, they have taken on a fight far bigger than they expected and will pay for it, I don't think they will ever recover from this, they are now the channel of Fake News and it's going to be hard to shift.

 

Why on earth you would go with things you have no evidence for based on a vendetta baffles me, did they really think they wouldn't get caught?

Jesus Matt!

 

Did you watch the edited snippets of that mockumentary and actually just take the framed context literally?

 

I'm pretty sure I could edit some of your conversations and make you out to be a far-right extremist when we all know your not really that extreme.

 

If there was hard evidence of Russian involvement he'd be screwed - the guy is simply saying there is no hard evidence and they are just reporting on the smoke and its kept in the news because its about ratings and putting pressure on Trump - that doesn't make them a fake news outlet.

 

I'm no lover of CNN but they really are in a different league to FOX who really are gutter nonsense news food - and btw, the Mail has nowhere near 40 pages of racism as it has to cover the Royals, Princess Diana's *insert something here, weather threats, teenage schoolgirl outfit pull-outs, weekly cancer scares and sell wedgwood/porcelain figurines/pots and post scare stories about cannabis and vaping devices as well as instal fears and threats of strangers from far lands immigrating on an unprecedented scale bringing rape, murder and polluting superior white genetics and their  preparedness to take employment away from British people using a work ethic and Islamic witchcraft.

 

Ooooh any excuse to repost this:

 

 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Swan Lesta said:

Jesus Matt!

 

Did you watch the edited snippets of that mockumentary and actually just take the framed context literally?

 

I'm pretty sure I could edit some of your conversations and make you out to be a far-right extremist when we all know your not really that extreme.

 

If there was hard evidence of Russian involvement he'd be screwed - the guy is simply saying there is no hard evidence and they are just reporting on the smoke and its kept in the news because its about ratings and putting pressure on Trump - that doesn't make them a fake news outlet.

 

I'm no lover of CNN but they really are in a different league to FOX who really are gutter nonsense news food - and btw, the Mail has nowhere near 40 pages of racism as it has to cover the Royals, Princess Diana's *insert something here, weather threats, teenage schoolgirl outfit pull-outs, weekly cancer scares and sell wedgwood/porcelain figurines/pots and post scare stories about cannabis and vaping devices as well as instal fears and threats of strangers from far lands immigrating on an unprecedented scale bringing rape, murder and polluting superior white genetics and their  preparedness to take employment away from British people using a work ethic and Islamic witchcraft.

 

Ooooh any excuse to repost this.

Jesus Nick!  That's a rant and a half, pretty much the point I was making about how hysterical some people can get over things like Fox News and the Daily Mail summed up in one post there, cheers.

 

The video is quite clear whether you like it or not, CNN has decided to go with "news" that they have no evidence of to keep up the pressure on Donald Trump, they are far worse than anything I can remember Fox doing, even they wouldn't go all in on the Obama birth certificate stuff, this is absolutely terrible and quite rightly resulted in three resignations.

 

CNN have taken US news to a new low and all the pointing at Fox to try and distract that isn't going to work against anyone who isn't already committed to the anti-Trump cause.

[Guest]

Jesus only just left one topic to avoid left vs right arguments and i find another i have to avoid. 

 

Aren't we all supposed to be united in bedazzled amazement about the ridiculousness of the bloke with a ferret for hair?

[Mike Oxlong]

I'm $ure M£lania r£ally lov£$ Donald for ju$t b£ing Donald.

[Nick]

55 minutes ago, MattP said:

Jesus Nick!  That's a rant and a half, pretty much the point I was making about how hysterical some people can get over things like Fox News and the Daily Mail summed up in one post there, cheers.

 

The video is quite clear whether you like it or not, CNN has decided to go with "news" that they have no evidence of to keep up the pressure on Donald Trump, they are far worse than anything I can remember Fox doing, even they wouldn't go all in on the Obama birth certificate stuff, this is absolutely terrible and quite rightly resulted in three resignations.

 

CNN have taken US news to a new low and all the pointing at Fox to try and distract that isn't going to work against anyone who isn't already committed to the anti-Trump cause.

The video is not quite clear as its edited and framed in a context - and you saying it's all true doesn't make it so! FOX has no credibility whatsoever with anybody in America apart from Trump supporters. It's like a state sponsored indoctrination program.

 

I just think it's weird that you spend so much time questioning the credibility of CNN and enjoying the political show rather than questioning the behaviour and the policy decisions of the lunatic in charge of the worlds most powerful nation... 

 

You'll have me singing, "Are you a redneck in disguise?" soon!

[Guest MattP]

Had I been born in the South I'm certain I've have been a redneck

 

I still  wouldn't have voted for Trump,but it was great to see all those people like rednecks, steel workers etc - all those who were the butt of the jokes from the liberals in the US for years finally get their revenge on them at the ballot box.

[Nick]

19 minutes ago, MattP said:

Had I been born in the South I'm certain I've have been a redneck

 

I still  wouldn't have voted for Trump,but it was great to see all those people like rednecks, steel workers etc - all those who were the butt of the jokes from the liberals in the US for years finally get their revenge on them at the ballot box.

 

Hmm.

 

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

25 minutes ago, MattP said:

Had I been born in the South I'm certain I've have been a redneck

 

I still  wouldn't have voted for Trump,but it was great to see all those people like rednecks, steel workers etc - all those who were the butt of the jokes from the liberals in the US for years finally get their revenge on them at the ballot box.

2

We've discussed this before - electing someone who is attempting to dismantle the environmental future of the US and to a large extent the world is not a proportionate response to being taken the piss out of.

[Carl the Llama]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

Jesus Nick!  That's a rant and a half, pretty much the point I was making about how hysterical some people can get over things like Fox News and the Daily Mail summed up in one post there, cheers.

 

The video is quite clear whether you like it or not, CNN has decided to go with "news" that they have no evidence of to keep up the pressure on Donald Trump, they are far worse than anything I can remember Fox doing, even they wouldn't go all in on the Obama birth certificate stuff, this is absolutely terrible and quite rightly resulted in three resignations.

 

CNN have taken US news to a new low and all the pointing at Fox to try and distract that isn't going to work against anyone who isn't already committed to the anti-Trump cause.

The reason why the CNN thing is such a scandal because outside of the sort of die-hard rightie who if English would be spending their time polemicising the BBC bias, most people viewed CNN as the more impartial of the major news outlets in the States, providing a relatively unfiltered mid-point between the right-wing Fox and the left-wing MSNBC, both of whom would probably have been able to ride this sort of scandal without staff doing the right thing and resigning simply because it's the sort of thing the public already expected of them.  Indeed Fox are already infamous for their staff making erroneous statements - often seemingly on purpose - then not later retracting or correcting themselves, let alone having anyone resign because of it.  As long as the money's still good anyway.  We all know Bill O'Reilly only lost his job recently because Fox could no longer get corporations to advertise during his show and not because of the sexual assault scandal that drove said companies away or the many years of hate-mongering up until then.

 

So to say that CNN have taken US news to a new low is just silly and wilfully ignores the past couple of decades of Fox News' unabashed race to win the hearts and minds of the lowest common nationalist denominator or MSNBC's adoption of a copycat approach from the opposite angle of smarmy liberalism.

 

And taking things back a bit to your debate about Fox claiming impartiality: It's a drum they've been proudly banging since day one, dropping the 'fair and balanced' slogan last month doesn't undo the last 2 decades of its existence. Let's not forget the recently departed Bill O's 'no spin zone' either.  Saying they don't claim impartiality is just more fake news, a fact I suspect you're well aware of.  Saying they no longer claim impartiality as brazenly as they used to would be more accurate.

[Jattdogg]

6 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I'm $ure M£lania r£ally lov£$ Donald for ju$t b£ing Donald.

Just think, she has to hear him moaning and groaning while he shags her. Bet he tweets during sex.  She has to see his jizz face.

 

The more i think this through (i am disturbed deeply by this now) the more she must be a paid handsomely for providing him service. Lol. 

Edited 4 July 2017 by Jattdogg

[Darkon84]

I can't really be arsed to get in to a huge debate today, but I just wanted to say the whole outrage over Trump's CNN tweet is ridiculous. It was a dumb tweet to post, though slightly entertaining, but nothing to lose your sh*t over, let's be honest.

 

Brian Stelter: Trump is inciting violence and threatening our lives.

Brian Stelter again: Is the president trying to impersonate Hugo Chavez? Recep Tayyip Erdogan? Vladimir Putin?

 

 

 

Jim Acosta (who's constantly upset now he can't be on camera grandstanding at pressers): This is serious. Journalists are going to get hurt and attacked because of this.

 

Martha Raddatz of ABC: This seems like a direct threat.

 

These are people who applaud the play depicting Trump getting violently murdered as art and freedom of expression. The people who (at first) all stood behind Kathy Griffin and her stunt, holding a severed head of Trump, Madonna admitting in front of crowds that she's thought about blowing up the White House, who then gets rounds of applause, Snoop Dogg showing the murder of Trump in one of his videos. None of these things are out of order or inciting hated, but Trump sharing a silly meme from Reddit it. It's no wonder ratings are plummeting and people are switching off. It's beyond pathetic now. 

And yes, as I've said before, I don't think Trump should be tweeting all the time. He holds such a position where I think he should be behaving more responsibly. let's also not forget that Trump's had an attempt on his life and was very close to having another

 

Oh go on then, I'll drop one more thing i.  Despite the stupidity of the CNN outrage, here's a bit of 'Good Trump' from Forbes.

 

By 2020, he'll have saved the White House Budget $22 million, saving $5 million per year compared to Obama. 

He's still not taking the $400,000 salary.

Ivanka and her husband have both also turned down their salaries.

There are 110 fewer staffers than under the previous administration (whether that's good or bad is yet to be seen though, I'll admit that).

Melania has only 5 staffers to help her, compared to Michelle Obamas (rightly criticised) 24 consultants, advisers, schedulers, directors etc.

Edited 4 July 2017 by Darkon84

[Nick]

15 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

I can't really be arsed to get in to a huge debate today, but I just wanted to say the whole outrage over Trump's CNN tweet is ridiculous. It was a dumb tweet to post, though slightly entertaining, but nothing to lose your sh*t over, let's be honest.

 

Brian Stelter: Trump is inciting violence and threatening our lives.

Brian Stelter again: Is the president trying to impersonate Hugo Chavez? Recep Tayyip Erdogan? Vladimir Putin?

 

 

 

Jim Acosta (who's constantly upset now he can't be on camera grandstanding at pressers): This is serious. Journalists are going to get hurt and attacked because of this.

 

Martha Raddatz of ABC: This seems like a direct threat.

 

These are people who applaud the play depicting Trump getting violently murdered as art and freedom of expression. The people who (at first) all stood behind Kathy Griffin and her stunt, holding a severed head of Trump, Madonna admitting in front of crowds that she's thought about blowing up the White House, who then gets rounds of applause, Snoop Dogg showing the murder of Trump in one of his videos. None of these things are out of order or inciting hated, but Trump sharing a silly meme from Reddit it. It's no wonder ratings are plummeting and people are switching off. It's beyond pathetic now. 

And yes, as I've said before, I don't think Trump should be tweeting all the time. He holds such a position where I think he should be behaving more responsibly. let's also not forget that Trump's had an attempt on his life and was very close to having another

 

Oh go on then, I'll drop one more thing i.  Despite the stupidity of the CNN outrage, here's a bit of 'Good Trump' from Forbes.

 

By 2020, he'll have saved the White House Budget $22 million, saving $5 million per year compared to Obama. 

He's still not taking the $400,000 salary.

Ivanka and her husband have both also turned down their salaries.

There are 110 fewer staffers than under the previous administration (whether that's good or bad is yet to be seen though, I'll admit that).

Melania has only 5 staffers to help her, compared to Michelle Obamas (rightly criticised) 24 consultants, advisers, schedulers, directors etc.

 

So the people you mention inciting hatred are popular figures in culture art music etc.... The person you are comparing them to is the Leader of the free world.

 

Have a think about the differing standards in behaviour and role profiles that might be involved and expected in their slightly different occupations.

[Darkon84]

13 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

So the people you mention inciting hatred are popular figures in culture art music etc.... The person you are comparing them to is the Leader of the free world.

 

Have a think about the differing standards in behaviour and role profiles that might be involved and expected in their slightly different occupations.

 

Yes, they are popular artists who's overall reach could possibly outstretch Trump's and what they have done could be seen to actually incite violence....Holding a severed head, preaching to crowds about blowing up the WH and a music video where Trump gets shot. If you think Trump posting a jokey meme about wrestling from Reddit, rather than thought out speeches, music videos or sick adverts is on a level playing field, you perhaps need to have a think about things too. Also, as I've said mulitple times, including above, I don't think Trump should be on twitter, and I didn't know that insinuating assassinating the Leader of the free world was part of the respective role profiles and occupations?

 

Brian Stelter had better watch out, The Undertaker might come and chokeslam him now  

Edited 4 July 2017 by Darkon84

[Nick]

10 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

 

Yes, they are popular artists who's overall reach could possibly outstretch Trump's and what they have done could be seen to actually incite violence....Holding a severed head, preaching to crowds about blowing up the WH and a music video where Trump gets shot. If you think Trump posting a jokey meme about wrestling from Reddit, rather than thought out speeches, music videos or sick adverts is on a level playing field, you perhaps need to have a think about things too. Also, as I've said mulitple times, including above, I don't think Trump should be on twitter, and I didn't know that insinuating assassinating the Leader of the free world was part of the respective role profiles and occupations?

 

Brian Stelter had better watch out, The Undertaker might come and chokeslam him now  

So basically to use your analogy Trump is the Tyson Fury of politics and most of the people who commentate on boxing and Fury are plonkers with differing views.

 

But just to re-state Trump is the Tyson Fury of politics.

[Carl the Llama]

3 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

 

Yes, they are popular artists who's overall reach could possibly outstretch Trump's and what they have done could be seen to actually incite violence....Holding a severed head, preaching to crowds about blowing up the WH and a music video where Trump gets shot. If you think Trump posting a jokey meme about wrestling from Reddit, rather than thought out speeches, music videos or sick adverts is on a level playing field, you perhaps need to have a think about things too.

 

Brian Stelter had better watch out, The Undertaker might come and chokeslam him now  

Are there any instances of popular figures doing this sort of thing and it not obviously being a joke?  As in do any of the people you mention have a history of actually calling people to arms saying, for instance, that if members of the public attack Trump they'll personally pay off any legal bills?  Because if not then the two things are incomparable before you even get into the different ethical standards required of each person (though obviously in an ideal world everyone would behave perfectly ethically and we'd all hug rainbows together).

 

The core point here is that the President of the United States of America shouldn't be allowed to incite violence against his own citizens, or anyone really, like this regardless of how many mean people did it to him first.

[Darkon84]

2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

So basically to use your analogy Trump is the Tyson Fury of politics and most of the people who commentate on boxing and Fury are plonkers with differing views.

 

But just to re-state Trump is the Tyson Fury of politics.

 

That's what you said. I said that given his position, he probably shouldn't be on there. 

 

Do you honestly believe the media's reaction to a jokey tweet has been justified and correct? Judging by the reactions I posted above? 

[Nick]

Just now, Darkon84 said:

 

That's what you said. I said that given his position, he probably shouldn't be on there. 

 

Do you honestly believe the media's reaction to a jokey tweet has been justified and correct? Judging by the reactions I posted above? 

I don't think it matters - I think its all a proportional response to the biggest ongoing joke in America right now - Trump.

 

I've spent a month out there since Christmas and the ridicule and disillusionment felt by half the country that now switch on their newsfeeds prepared for something akin to a variety show.

[Guest MattP]

Do people seriously think he was "inciting violence"? Jesus

 

This is so typical of so many people in the World in 2017, we can scream, bully, kick, slander, smear and shout at whoever we want but as soon as they have a go back we start crying about and demanding the other person stop.

 

Given some of the stuff (what that comedian did to his son was horrific) I think he's actually been pretty restrained. 

 

It's absolutely pathetic.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I don't think it matters - I think its all a proportional response to the biggest ongoing joke in America right now - Trump.

 

I've spent a month out there since Christmas and the ridicule and disillusionment felt by half the country that now switch on their newsfeeds prepared for something akin to a variety show.

It was ridicule and disillusionment felt by half the population that led to him being elected. 

 

Those on the left didn't give a shit then. It was suck it up and take it.

[Nick]

Just now, MattP said:

It was ridicule and disillusionment felt by half the population that led to him being elected. 

 

Those on the left didn't give a shit then. It was suck it up and take it.

And there you are rushing to Trump's defence and being offended on behalf of other people again Matt!

[Darkon84]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Are there any instances of popular figures doing this sort of thing and it not obviously being a joke?  As in do any of the people you mention have a history of actually calling people to arms saying, for instance, that if members of the public attack Trump they'll personally pay off any legal bills?  Because if not then the two things are incomparable before you even get into the different ethical standards required of each person (though obviously in an ideal world everyone would behave perfectly ethically and we'd all hug rainbows together).

 

The core point here is that the President of the United States of America shouldn't be allowed to incite violence against his own citizens, or anyone really, like this regardless of how many mean people did it to him first.

That's a fair point and way of looking at it. I don't think that what madonna said, or snoop said, or the play where Trump gets murdered etc are meant in pure seriousness, but I don't think they're intended as a joke either. They're bold statements of how they feel.

 

My original points were about the over reaction and hysterical nature of the left leaning journos etc (as well as some people). I dont think he should be on Twitter, but I most certainly don't think he's inciting violence, especially compared to other things such as what I've highlighted.

 

 

1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

I don't think it matters - I think its all a proportional response to the biggest ongoing joke in America right now - Trump.

 

I've spent a month out there since Christmas and the ridicule and disillusionment felt by half the country that now switch on their newsfeeds prepared for something akin to a variety show.

Funny that you don't think it matters when you appear to be wrong. I'm not a Trump supporter, but I feel some hypocrisy needs to be called out sometimes. If you really think that people are going to go round bodyslamming CNN reporters because of a jokey tweet, that's fine and we can disagree, we're entitled to that, though I think there'd be a much greater chance that people would take something on board that's been said by someone like Snoop Doog (who, let's not forget has threatened rape upon Melania before) etc. 

 

Your point about him being a joke out there slightly contradicts your point to back up mine though. If people think he's a joke, then they won't take him seriously.

[Nick]

4 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

That's a fair point and way of looking at it. I don't think that what madonna said, or snoop said, or the play where Trump gets murdered etc are meant in pure seriousness, but I don't think they're intended as a joke either. They're bold statements of how they feel.

 

My original points were about the over reaction and hysterical nature of the left leaning journos etc (as well as some people). I dont think he should be on Twitter, but I most certainly don't think he's inciting violence, especially compared to other things such as what I've highlighted.

 

 

Funny that you don't think it matters when you appear to be wrong. I'm not a Trump supporter, but I feel some hypocrisy needs to be called out sometimes. If you really think that people are going to go round bodyslamming CNN reporters because of a jokey tweet, that's fine and we can disagree, we're entitled to that, though I think there'd be a much greater chance that people would take something on board that's been said by someone like Snoop Doog (who, let's not forget has threatened rape upon Melania before) etc. 

 

Your point about him being a joke out there slightly contradicts your point to back up mine though. If people think he's a joke, then they won't take him seriously.

I don't endorse anything that others are saying or doing - I'm simply saying he's made his own bed by being the biggest incompetent donkey in modern day politics.

 

People think he's a joke yes of course - but they have to take him seriously as he holds the highest office in the land.

[Darkon84]

3 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I don't endorse anything that others are saying or doing - I'm simply saying he's made his own bed by being the biggest incompetent donkey in modern day politics.

 

People think he's a joke yes of course - but they have to take him seriously as he holds the highest office in the land.

 

That's all I was getting at really, none of it is classy. He shouldn't be on twitter, but then others in the media shouldn't be endorsing things such as the head severing etc. Parts of the left media have been having a right dig at him and it's all fair game. He has a joke back and everyone loses their mind. It's the hypocrisy which I was pointing out.

I'd say the constant Trump bashing has a larger chance of having an effect on someone to cause harm to him, than him tweeting a wrestling move, then all journos being in serious danger.

 

There's no harm in disagreeing on the media outrages and narratives.

[Lionator]

Also guys, when picking sides in the forthcoming war, one side has a psychopathic, media-censoring, anti-universal healthcare, criminal, environment hating dictator...and the other side is North Korea!