Carl the Llama Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 8 minutes ago, toddybad said: It took the 27 EU leaders just 90 seconds to agree on a statement So we've basically become the EU's version of Ozymandias' giant alien squid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 7 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said: Some of these European leaders seem very sensible to me. If only there were some way of forging closer ties with them, perhaps by being part of some economic and political union with other European states. You may say I'm a dreamer, etc Tell Yanis Varoufakis they are sensible and see the response you get. Or anyone who gets in the way of their intentions. I'd be for closer union with them if they didn't want to impact on the decisions, government and rights of the nation state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 Interesting article on the poor supposedly getting poorer. Quote There is a second problem with the average weekly earnings data as a proxy for our prosperity: it is before tax. So, it does not reflect the rising personal tax threshold – which has reduced income tax for millions of people – or the impact of tax credits. https://capx.co/no-were-not-getting-poorer-heres-why/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 19 minutes ago, Webbo said: Interesting article on the poor supposedly getting poorer. https://capx.co/no-were-not-getting-poorer-heres-why/ The tax threshold thing is great and i’m sure its fantastic not to have to pay tax up to £11.5k but really that amount of money doesnt make that much difference to your quality of life. You still cant buy a house, get a better car, have flash holidays etc. The kind of wages the lower earners are on they still fall further behind. To be honest, too much time is spent by people trying to prove that the poor aren’t actually poor or that being poor actually isn’t that bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 46 minutes ago, Webbo said: Saw this on Newsnight last night. Sounds massively dodgy on the face of it. Will be interesting to see if he comes out with any explanation and where it all leads. Certainly merits investigation by the sound of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 53 minutes ago, MattP said: Tell Yanis Varoufakis they are sensible and see the response you get. Or anyone who gets in the way of their intentions. I'd be for closer union with them if they didn't want to impact on the decisions, government and rights of the nation state I did tell him that, but he just kept going on about the time he went down the Swan and Rushes with you, and you got so shit faced the only thing you could say that people could understand was that Diane Abbott is quite attractive without her glasses on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 13 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: The tax threshold thing is great and i’m sure its fantastic not to have to pay tax up to £11.5k but really that amount of money doesnt make that much difference to your quality of life. You still cant buy a house, get a better car, have flash holidays etc. The kind of wages the lower earners are on they still fall further behind. To be honest, too much time is spent by people trying to prove that the poor aren’t actually poor or that being poor actually isn’t that bad. But to say that the poor are getting poorer is a lie. It might be that they're not getting any richer but they're not worse off.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 15 minutes ago, Webbo said: But to say that the poor are getting poorer is a lie. It might be that they're not getting any richer but they're not worse off.. Relative to the rest of society, after housing costs are taken into account, they are getting poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 7 minutes ago, toddybad said: Relative to the rest of society, after housing costs are taken into account, they are getting poorer. Do I have to get that graph out again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: Do I have to get that graph out again? Mine came from the ifs website. Yours just said ifs on the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 Watching unreported world on channel 4, respect for showing this, no way would the government influenced BBC or itv show this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 11 minutes ago, toddybad said: Mine came from the ifs website. Yours just said ifs on the bottom. If you look on your graph it shows 2% growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: But to say that the poor are getting poorer is a lie. It might be that they're not getting any richer but they're not worse off.. Great. As long as they’re still just poor its a victory eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 Just now, Realist Guy In The Room said: Great. As long as they’re still just poor its a victory eh? Unless we all have exactly the same, there will always be rich and poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 6 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: Great. As long as they’re still just poor its a victory eh? If we're going to have a discussion isn't it better to be based on fact rather than a lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 I have a flat screen television Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 1 minute ago, Bellend Sebastian said: I have a flat screen television HD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 (edited) Full HD. That said, I've discovered that curved TVs are back in now so I may as well just go and dump it in the canal/a country lane Edited 20 October 2017 by Bellend Sebastian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: If we're going to have a discussion isn't it better to be based on fact rather than a lie? I would suggest that a very high proportion of politics are based on lies or interpretations of the truth. When it comes to subjects like this, I rely on my eyes, ears and experiences. I’ve lived and worked in the South West for 6 years and in those 6 years, i’ve seen standards visibly drop. I’ve seen businesses close, clients committing suicide, rises in petty theft (always supermarkets and always food) and evictions rocketing. When I go home and visit friends in the Monsell, Beaumont Leys and Highfields, its much the same story and when I speak to people they all say similar things usually along the line of, ‘I’ve got more money but everything is just worse’. In contrast, most I know that are middle class and above that live in Truro, Exeter or those in Stoneygate and Market Harborough are absolutely coining it in from one area or another. I was poor growing up and it sucked ass. You cant do shit. You cant buy anything, you cant go anywhere and you cant do anything. I’m not some left wing social warrior, but your graph, I just dont believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: But to say that the poor are getting poorer is a lie. It might be that they're not getting any richer but they're not worse off.. Benefits are frozen, inflation is at 3% - of course they are getting poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 6 minutes ago, Buce said: Benefits are frozen, inflation is at 3% - of course they are getting poorer. But, but, but, THE GRAPH YEAH??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 11 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: I would suggest that a very high proportion of politics are based on lies or interpretations of the truth. When it comes to subjects like this, I rely on my eyes, ears and experiences. I’ve lived and worked in the South West for 6 years and in those 6 years, i’ve seen standards visibly drop. I’ve seen businesses close, clients committing suicide, rises in petty theft (always supermarkets and always food) and evictions rocketing. When I go home and visit friends in the Monsell, Beaumont Leys and Highfields, its much the same story and when I speak to people they all say similar things usually along the line of, ‘I’ve got more money but everything is just worse’. In contrast, most I know that are middle class and above that live in Truro, Exeter or those in Stoneygate and Market Harborough are absolutely coining it in from one area or another. I was poor growing up and it sucked ass. You cant do shit. You cant buy anything, you cant go anywhere and you cant do anything. I’m not some left wing social warrior, but your graph, I just dont believe. Well if were believing the evidence of our own eyes then I have to say I haven't met any of these people who can't afford to eat. Nobody I know seems worse off at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 12 minutes ago, Buce said: Benefits are frozen, inflation is at 3% - of course they are getting poorer. Tax allowance up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 20 October 2017 Share Posted 20 October 2017 Just now, Webbo said: Tax allowance up. Has no effect on the poorest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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