Guest Foxin_mad Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: You were talking about socialism making countries poor. I've just shown this isn't true with the example of china and now you're moving the goalposts. Aside from suggesting that your problems with China sound like a list of tory ambitions, I'd love you to point out which of those are labour policy or which policies suggest to you that labour are communist. Labour clearly stand for socialism within the same broad framework as capatalism exists. I'd love to really debate issues with you fox but you really need to move away from labour = venezuela = communism = enemies of the west stuff. China is still pretty poor overall. Socialism quite often does make them poor in its most idealistic form. Venezuela aren't communist they are socialist?! Communism is a different kettle of fish. Obviously there is a fundamental disagreement in beliefs, I do not believe a fully socialist system such as that inferred by Corbyn and McDonnell will work, Corbyn is anti capitalist he does not want it big business here. Trouble is you need big business for a market place, competition and employment. They aren't Tory ambitions at all, by keeping the economy and deficit in check we can afford to pay for public services. China has massive growth and still cant not afford half of what we have for its population, don't know if they have taxed the nasty rich men or the businesses creating low cost employment. Labour as a far left momentum run organisation led by a far left Corbyn and McDonnell don't stand for that at all, that is why they are so dangerous right now. Labour should be a Social Democratic party in the centre left, as pretty much every party in the UK is at the moment. Under Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum they have become a far left party, they are taking votes from the communist party now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 What are claimed to be centrist policies have moved progressively further and further right over the last 30-40 years. I really don't think 5% tax and renationalising industries that are nationalised across Europe is hard left. I fundamentally disagree with your argument. I mentioned communism as you did when talking about China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: China is still pretty poor overall. Socialism quite often does make them poor in its most idealistic form. Venezuela aren't communist they are socialist?! Communism is a different kettle of fish. Obviously there is a fundamental disagreement in beliefs, I do not believe a fully socialist system such as that inferred by Corbyn and McDonnell will work, Corbyn is anti capitalist he does not want it big business here. Trouble is you need big business for a market place, competition and employment. They aren't Tory ambitions at all, by keeping the economy and deficit in check we can afford to pay for public services. China has massive growth and still cant not afford half of what we have for its population, don't know if they have taxed the nasty rich men or the businesses creating low cost employment. Labour as a far left momentum run organisation led by a far left Corbyn and McDonnell don't stand for that at all, that is why they are so dangerous right now. Labour should be a Social Democratic party in the centre left, as pretty much every party in the UK is at the moment. Under Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum they have become a far left party, they are taking votes from the communist party now! Ffs, is there any chance you could use a smaller font so I can't see the shit you write? I've tried putting you on ignore but @toddybad keeps quoting you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 1 hour ago, BlueBrett said: Do they? I know Corbyn mentioned revisiting the clause 4 debate about 18 months ago but pretty sure he's bottled it so far. Only because he doesn't have the numbers yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 28 minutes ago, Buce said: Ffs, is there any chance you could use a smaller font so I can't see the shit you write? I've tried putting you on ignore but @toddybad keeps quoting you. sorry, i can be better. I can't believe his age for somebody with his views - i expected him to be an octogenarian but he's about 35! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 Pretty much how 2017 feels.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 28 July 2017 Share Posted 28 July 2017 18 minutes ago, MattP said: Pretty much how 2017 feels.... Do Scousers blame Thatcher for them not having a brain cell between them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueBrett Posted 29 July 2017 Share Posted 29 July 2017 20 hours ago, MattP said: Only because he doesn't have the numbers yet. That's the point though isn't it. Pragmatism trumps principles every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 30 July 2017 Share Posted 30 July 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 (edited) On 28/07/2017 at 17:43, Buce said: Ffs, is there any chance you could use a smaller font so I can't see the shit you write? I've tried putting you on ignore but @toddybad keeps quoting you. Your such a nice chap. Kind caring Labour voter just what this country needs! Because you do not agree does not make it shit. Fortunately we are not in a totalitarian socialist state yet. I unfortunately have not swallowed Maos little red book. I will now add you to ignore so hopefully I don't see anymore of your vitriolic bile aimed at me. Edited 31 July 2017 by Foxin_mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 Hammond says UK will seek Brexit transitional deal of up to three years https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/philip-hammond-confirms-uk-will-seek-brexit-transitional-deal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Liam Fox denies cabinet deal on transitional EU free movement https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/30/liam-fox-denies-cabinet-deal-on-transitional-eu-free-movement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Cabinet united on avoiding Brexit 'cliff edge' departure, says Hunt https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/31/cabinet-united-on-avoiding-brexit-cliff-edge-departure-says-hunt?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastAnglianFox Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 No 10 contradicts Hammond over 'off-the-shelf' Brexit transition deal https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/31/no-10-rejects-off-the-shelf-transitional-deal-for-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-stop-brexit-eu-sadiq-khan-general-election-a7866121.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 Quite an interesting argument. The Guardian view on European agencies: lost to a myth https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/the-guardian-view-on-european-agencies-lost-to-a-myth?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangecity23 Posted 31 July 2017 Share Posted 31 July 2017 On 7/28/2017 at 16:00, Foxin_mad said: We want to be like China? pollution, limited health care, limited education, few decent universities, massive poverty, no safety standards, very very low paid work, poor human rights, limited Internet. I don't think we want to be like China! Now I would argue that we need to be able to compete with China to stop them taking all our manufacturing jobs, we can do this on quality but I do not think we really want to emulate them. Its only in recent years since they have began to become more open the lest communist they become. Theresa May is already well on the way to achieving this. Default pornography blocking, everyone in the entire countries web browsing history being kept for 2 years and accessible by a raft of bodies including the Food Standards Agency and the Welsh Ambulance Service (well known terrorist fighting organisations there) plus the ban on encryption she keeps waffling on about (without twigging that encryption is vital for secure online banking and shopping, and is vital for use in businesses for VPNs). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 What were the issues that really decided the election? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40630242 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 Opposition leaders taken from their homes in Venezuela - think we know how this ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 3 hours ago, MattP said: Opposition leaders taken from their homes in Venezuela - think we know how this ends. Helicopter rides, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 4 hours ago, MattP said: Opposition leaders taken from their homes in Venezuela - think we know how this ends. That's what happens when a drug cartel lead your country unfortunately. Hague backs transitional plan to avoid great Brexit 'muddle' https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/01/william-hague-backs-transitional-avoid-brexit-muddle-eea?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 53 minutes ago, toddybad said: That's what happens when a drug cartel lead your country unfortunately. Hague backs transitional plan to avoid great Brexit 'muddle' https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/01/william-hague-backs-transitional-avoid-brexit-muddle-eea?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Nothing to do with the Socialist government and free money being a breading ground for corruption. Chavez also removed the US Drug Enforcement Organisation from the country which led to a two fold increase in the trade I can not imagine why he would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 1 hour ago, toddybad said: That's what happens when a drug cartel lead your country unfortunately. Are you embarrassed it's a regime backed by most of the Labour front bench given what has happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 48 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Nothing to do with the Socialist government and free money being a breading ground for corruption. Chavez also removed the US Drug Enforcement Organisation from the country which led to a two fold increase in the trade I can not imagine why he would do that. 1 To be fair the DEA is an organisation fighting an unwinnable war that exists pretty much only as an extension of US soft power in Latin America...so I can see why some leaders there wouldn't want them around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 1 August 2017 Share Posted 1 August 2017 I'm no fan of Corbyn or Labour but the constant linking of them to Venezuela is just ridiculous. You can like the Glitter Band, hell you could even buy a ticket and go and watch them. But that doesn't mean you approve of shagging 9 yr old Vietnemese boys. If we'd have known what the countries would become, we probably would have left Sadam and Gaddafi alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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