Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Sampson]

47 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I was just keen to reiterate that someone retired at 66 has often worked 50 years full time. There is sometimes a tendency to use boomer as a derogatory term and that all are in clover.

I am not disagreeing. I’m not saying it’s wrong that people want retirement in their 50s or 60s or that people shouldn’t fell like they earnt their pension after working for 40-50 years either. Just I was more talking about how the state realistically supports so many pensioners financially, not really arguing about the moral argument or whether it’s earnt or not.
 

It’s just that retirement was brought in at a time when few people reached it and those who did mostly spent 5 years on pension max. 

 

Nowadays, most people on average reach their state pension and people spend 20-40 years claiming state pension. Again, even if we raise state pension age many in their 70s or 80s wouldn’t physically be able to work or would struggle to find work anyway and so would just be moved from pension to disability or jsa public income. So I don’t think raising the retirement age is a cure all either.

 

Not saying that’s wrong for one minute, just that the state and the current economic model and how we currently think about and pay for retirement is struggling to deal with the ageing population of the uk and other western countries.

Edited 21 June 2023 by Sampson

[Foxdiamond]

2 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I am not disagreeing. I’m not saying it’s wrong that people want retirement in their 50s or 60s either. It’s just that retirement was brought in at a time when few people reached it and those who did mostly spent 5 years on pension max.

 

Nowadays, most people on average reach their state pension and people spend 20-40 years claiming state pension. Again, even if we raise state pension age many in their 70s or 80s wouldn’t physically be able to work anyway and so would just be moved from pension to disability or jsa public income.

 

Not saying that’s wrong for one minute, just that the state and the current economic model and how we currently think about and pay for retirement is struggling to deal with the ageing population of the uk and other western countries.

Understand your points. Of course some never reach retirement age. Sadly a number of friends and colleagues died in their 40s and 50s. Won't be too many getting state pension for the 30 to 40 years. Even the 20 years is optimistic for many. I'm sure you know but some might not but pensions are taxable.

[grobyfox1990]

Whether they worked 20 years or 50 years they are getting a state pension and all the perks such as a free bus pass and a week at Cromer country club, so should damn well count themselves extremely lucky and not complain.

 

My generation has pretty much been unequivocally told we are not getting anything from the state, building up a private pension from your first day of work is absolutely vital.

[Foxdiamond]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Whether they worked 20 years or 50 years they are getting a state pension and all the perks such as a free bus pass and a week at Cromer country club, so should damn well count themselves extremely lucky and not complain.

 

My generation has pretty much been unequivocally told we are not getting anything from the state, building up a private pension from your first day of work is absolutely vital.

A private pension was also something we paid into as well. Those that rely on the state pension only are often in poverty.  Perhaps you would prefer the pensioners to never venture beyond their front door.  I can't abide this generation war. Many pensioners are providing help to younger members of their family be it financially or through looking after grandchildren while parents at work. This may involve using said bus pass. We ain't all on world cruises. 

[Sampson]

40 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Understand your points. Of course some never reach retirement age. Sadly a number of friends and colleagues died in their 40s and 50s. Won't be too many getting state pension for the 30 to 40 years. Even the 20 years is optimistic for many. I'm sure you know but some might not but pensions are taxable.

Of course not everyone makes it but nowadays the majority do make it to their pensions and average life expectancy is 81 in the uk, which means 14 years on the pension for the average person, which will only increase. Supposedly around 1 in every 6 people in their 30s today and 1 in every 4 people born nowadays will live to 100, so they’ll be plenty getting 30-40 years worth of pensions over the next couple of generations.

 

For the record, 44% of in total welfare spending in the uk goes on pensions. And there was a 45% increase on real pension spending (so accounting for inflation) from 2008-2020.
 

I’m not making a judgement on whether it’s right or wrong, but it’s objectively true that the pension system has more expenditure and a far bigger economic problem for the uk and basically every western country’s public purse than every other welfare and benefit system, regardless of how often the press demonises those claiming other benefits, the reality of the situation is that state pensions are the real economic albatross in this area.

 

For the record, for all the demonisation those on job seekers benefits get, unemployment benefits make up 1% of the social security system in comparison. According to the ons, the state in the uk spends around £2bn per year on unemployment benefits in comparison to around £116bn per year on state pensions and that’s increasing rapidly, it’s already increased by £23bn from £93bn in just 6 years since 2017.

 

Again, I’m not making any moral judgements, but clear the pension system as it is now was built for a much younger country as it was 2-3 generations ago and is struggling greatly with population ageing.

Edited 21 June 2023 by Sampson

[grobyfox1990]

30 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

A private pension was also something we paid into as well. Those that rely on the state pension only are often in poverty.  Perhaps you would prefer the pensioners to never venture beyond their front door.  I can't abide this generation war. Many pensioners are providing help to younger members of their family be it financially or through looking after grandchildren while parents at work. This may involve using said bus pass. We ain't all on world cruises. 

Yeh the first part of my post was half in jest, as if any pensioner with half a brain would go to a dump such as Cromer country club. Pensioners sure had to pay into a private pension....a gold plated final salary one I bet... But the standards that were once apparent back in the day should be seen as normal, it is a shame they have been ripped apart into what we see these days. 

 

Fact is though anyone not paying a good chunk into a workplace pension is gonna be majorly screwed in later life.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh the first part of my post was half in jest, as if any pensioner with half a brain would go to a dump such as Cromer country club. Pensioners sure had to pay into a private pension....a gold plated final salary one I bet... But the standards that were once apparent back in the day should be seen as normal, it is a shame they have been ripped apart into what we see these days. 

 

Fact is though anyone not paying a good chunk into a workplace pension is gonna be majorly screwed in later life.

And that could lead to a certain amount of civil unrest depending on exactly how many people are screwed. I think some accommodation will have to be found.

[grobyfox1990]

19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And that could lead to a certain amount of civil unrest depending on exactly how many people are screwed. I think some accommodation will have to be found.

I would hope some unrest would happen but I’ve resigned myself to knowing British people will accept whatever is given to them without disruption. mortgages are literally quintupling overnight and we are all accepting it lol. People my age will retire without a pot to piss in and they’ll happily accept it.

Its slightly better but still horrendous in the Channel Islands where I now live, they tried to introduce VAT at 5% (entirely fair imo) in guernsey, and the people literally chased govt out of town. They had to scrap the measure

[Jon the Hat]

19 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh the first part of my post was half in jest, as if any pensioner with half a brain would go to a dump such as Cromer country club. Pensioners sure had to pay into a private pension....a gold plated final salary one I bet... But the standards that were once apparent back in the day should be seen as normal, it is a shame they have been ripped apart into what we see these days. 

 

Fact is though anyone not paying a good chunk into a workplace pension is gonna be majorly screwed in later life.

Yes and no - suspect the state pension will become fully means tested like any other benefit, and if you have a house or a private pension you won't qualify.  That would mean more funds for those who need it.  It should be compulsory for people to pay into a private pension a set percentage like in Australia.  Put it on the employer and introduce gradually.  It is currently 10.5% of salary over here increasing to 12% in the next couple of years and Australia has some of the highest pension savings in the world.

Edited 22 June 2023 by Jon the Hat

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes and no - suspect the state pension will become fully means tested like any other benefit, and if you have a house or a private pension you won't qualify.  That would mean more funds for those who need it.  It should be compulsory for people to pay into a private pension a set percentage like in Australia.  Put it on the employer and introduce gradually.  It is currently 10.5% of salary over here increasing to 12% in the next couple of years and Australia has some of the highest pension savings in the world.

I don’t think  it comes means tested. If you have worked for 30 years full time and are 67 then you get full state pension regardless of any private pension you have. Private pensions are more to top up your private pension and for those who wish to retire before 67.

[marbles]

Weird to see people on here laughing and making fun of those who died in the sub.

 

 

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, marbles said:

Weird to see people on here laughing and making fun of those who died in the sub.

 

 

Don't think it's weird imo. People generally have a chuckle when people die doing dumb shit. Right now with the rich eating the rest of the world, a billionaire dying doing dumb shit is definitely going to provoke a rather less than pleasant reaction. 

[ozleicester]

16 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes and no - suspect the state pension will become fully means tested like any other benefit, and if you have a house or a private pension you won't qualify.  That would mean more funds for those who need it.  It should be compulsory for people to pay into a private pension a set percentage like in Australia.  Put it on the employer and introduce gradually.  It is currently 10.5% of salary over here increasing to 12% in the next couple of years and Australia has some of the highest pension savings in the world.

This is NOT employer funded, workers like myself have had pay rises removed for the last 30 years and increased had work/hour trade offs added to cover the "Super" payments.

The private fund IS MY MONEY forcibly taken by the government and put into a corrupt system and i am stopped from accessing until im 67, even though IT IS MY WAGES and they lied when introduced it and told us we'd all be retired by 50 and this would be available to us, theyve since upped the access age and there is nothing to stop them doing it again.

Unlike tax where the money is take and used for good of community this is just used to prop up a faulty system.

[marbles]

26 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Don't think it's weird imo. People generally have a chuckle when people die doing dumb shit. Right now with the rich eating the rest of the world, a billionaire dying doing dumb shit is definitely going to provoke a rather less than pleasant reaction. 

Being happy to see anyone die just doesn't sit right with me .

The exception being people such as murderers, or people who do heinous things to women/children/animals.

 

 

 

    

[Jon the Hat]

44 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

This is NOT employer funded, workers like myself have had pay rises removed for the last 30 years and increased had work/hour trade offs added to cover the "Super" payments.

The private fund IS MY MONEY forcibly taken by the government and put into a corrupt system and i am stopped from accessing until im 67, even though IT IS MY WAGES and they lied when introduced it and told us we'd all be retired by 50 and this would be available to us, theyve since upped the access age and there is nothing to stop them doing it again.

Unlike tax where the money is take and used for good of community this is just used to prop up a faulty system.

Yes, noted it is your money, and the gradual introduction was to avoid pay cuts and make it less painful - just making you put a big chunk of your pay into a super fund overnight would be a disaster for most people.  I don't know what was said at the time.  I do think it is a much better system than expecting future workers to support your pension through taxation when we know the numbers don't add up.  The fact you can't access it before retirement justifies the concessional tax rate you pay on the contributions.

[Jon the Hat]

15 hours ago, Sampson said:

I don’t think  it comes means tested. If you have worked for 30 years full time and are 67 then you get full state pension regardless of any private pension you have. Private pensions are more to top up your private pension and for those who wish to retire before 67.

Government won't be able to afford a universal pension in 40 years.

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Government won't be able to afford a universal pension in 40 years.

That could well be true.

 

Mentioned earlier though that if that becomes the case, there may be a fair amount of civil trouble. People don't like regression of living standards for what they think is no reason.

[Jon the Hat]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That could well be true.

 

Mentioned earlier though that if that becomes the case, there may be a fair amount of civil trouble. People don't like regression of living standards for what they think is no reason.

Indeed, although those who lose it will be the middle class who are not the most likely to kick off.

[leicsmac]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Indeed, although those who lose it will be the middle class who are not the most likely to kick off.

You'd think so, but that's because historically they've had no real bottom-tier Maslow-related reason to kick off.

 

This would change that.

[The Doctor]

8 hours ago, marbles said:

Weird to see people on here laughing and making fun of those who died in the sub.

 

 

Eh, the situation is grimly funny. They tried to go to the Titanic using a submarine made from bits from Camping World and Amazon. Like if I tried to go to the top of Everest in a homemade rocket I'd put together with stuff from B&Q, and it inevitably went wrong because I'd followed literally no safety standards or certification, people would be going "lol ****ing idiot" and talking about the Darwin awards

[marbles]

26 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Eh, the situation is grimly funny. They tried to go to the Titanic using a submarine made from bits from Camping World and Amazon. Like if I tried to go to the top of Everest in a homemade rocket I'd put together with stuff from B&Q, and it inevitably went wrong because I'd followed literally no safety standards or certification, people would be going "lol ****ing idiot" and talking about the Darwin awards

Justify it any way you like.

As I’ve said, loss of human life is not funny to me.

 

 

 

 

[Foxdiamond]

7 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Government won't be able to afford a universal pension in 40 years.

No doubt the blue party will still allow non doms to escape paying tax though

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Eh, the situation is grimly funny. They tried to go to the Titanic using a submarine made from bits from Camping World and Amazon. Like if I tried to go to the top of Everest in a homemade rocket I'd put together with stuff from B&Q, and it inevitably went wrong because I'd followed literally no safety standards or certification, people would be going "lol ****ing idiot" and talking about the Darwin awards

I doubt the other 4 people getting in the vessel knew too much about its construction tbh, one of them on board was just a 19 year kid. Do you really know whether the aeroplane or boat has a safety certificate every time you get on board? I certainly don’t. I think we often assume people building vehicles know what they’re doing.

 

It seems like the CEO was aware however and so would likely be facing manslaughter/death by gross negligence charges for the other 4 deaths. I suspect high up people at the company still will face those.

[Dames]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Eh, the situation is grimly funny. They tried to go to the Titanic using a submarine made from bits from Camping World and Amazon. Like if I tried to go to the top of Everest in a homemade rocket I'd put together with stuff from B&Q, and it inevitably went wrong because I'd followed literally no safety standards or certification, people would be going "lol ****ing idiot" and talking about the Darwin awards

Its the very definition of F around and Find out. Having lots of money doesn't make you immune to stupidity. Its tragic what happened but lets not pretend it wasn't hubris that lead them to their doom. 

[Dunge]

I don’t think anyone’s happy about the people on the sub dying*, but isn’t dark humour just something we do in this country? There’s an argument to say it’s healthy.

 

*maybe Oz.