Football is Ruined - Play to the Whistle?VAR

[ozleicester]

18 minutes ago, the fox said:

it's the (current) recommendation from the International Board to, when in doubt, let play continue, and if there's an offside, the goal will be overruled.

So the ref is handing over responsibility for decision making.. to VAR?

[StriderHiryu]

19 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

This is my point, people are focusing on the "time thing"... its about fundamentally changing our game, its taking the game away from the referee, with out the respect for the ref, the game will die.

 

edit oh and IMHO refs curently get about 90% right... do we want perfection?

I do see your point but think it can be handled appropriately. For example in Tennis you have a challenge system which I think is very well done and actually adds to the game. 

 

In other European leagues (Italy is a great example) fans aren’t happy with it, but I feel like in the end in some configuration it will work. It does need iteration though. 

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, m4DD0gg said:

What a load of bollocks. 

This comment has been reviewed and found to be crap - play on

[Mark_w]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The game is ruined,

 

Referees no longer have control and never again will you hear "Play to the whistle"

 

VAR will ruin the game, no player will stop just because of the refs whistle, they will need to play on, just in case the VAR disagrees with the ref.

 

January 16th will go down as the day football died.

 

 

It's surely a good thing whenever Jon Moss has less control?

[the fox]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

So the ref is handing over responsibility for decision making.. to VAR?

in the close/not 100% clear offsides, not the obvious ones

[m4DD0gg]

Just now, ozleicester said:

This comment has been reviewed and found to be crap - play on

The game has evolved and for the better. Every other major sport uses a level of automation to aid decision making. Stop being such a luddite. 

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

I do see your point but think it can be handled appropriately. For example in Tennis you have a challenge system which I think is very well done and actually adds to the game. 

 

In other European leagues (Italy is a great example) fans aren’t happy with it, but I feel like in the end in some configuration it will work. It does need iteration though. 

It has been in place for tennis for some time and it works there for a number of reasons (the game doesnt flow, it has logical play breaks etc) nevertheless it has also removed responsibility from the referee..which is what i am saying will happen in football

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, Mark_w said:

It's surely a good thing whenever Jon Moss has less control?

cant argue that one

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, the fox said:

in the close/not 100% clear offsides, not the obvious ones

i would suggest 90% of ofsides are "close".. so 90% of offside decisions are out of refs hands?

[ozleicester]

2 minutes ago, m4DD0gg said:

The game has evolved and for the better. Every other major sport uses a level of automation to aid decision making. Stop being such a luddite. 

lol, thanks, i have never before made the level of luddite.

 

Lets go the whole hog, scrap players, grounds, referees, lets just play on the playstation. technology yeh!

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

So.. did the ref NOT blow for Riyad's "offside"? and if he had.. should Riyad have stopped?

no idea - it didn’t happen .........

 

but if it did and the ref blows then then the law is exactly as it is now and he has to stop or risk a card 

[ozleicester]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

no idea - it didn’t happen .........

 

but if it did and the ref blows then then the law is exactly as it is now and he has to stop or risk a card 

Sorry i am asking... DID the ref blow for offside? ( i cant tell from video's etc)

[Yes N'Didi]

6 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Sorry i am asking... DID the ref blow for offside? ( i cant tell from video's etc)

No he didn't - the linesmans flag went up and the ref didn't blow - all parties played to the whistle which never came so after the ball went in the net, the ref wasn't sure and the VAR advised to award the goal about 67 seconds later.

[ozleicester]

Just now, Yes N'Didi said:

No he didn't - the linesmans flag went up and the ref didn't blow - all parties played to the whistle which never came so after the ball went in the net, the ref wasn't sure and the VAR advised to award the goal about 67 seconds later.

Thanks.

 

I wonder why he didnt blow?

[Finnegan]

3 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The game is ruined,

 

Referees no longer have control and never again will you hear "Play to the whistle"

 

VAR will ruin the game, no player will stop just because of the refs whistle, they will need to play on, just in case the VAR disagrees with the ref.

 

January 16th will go down as the day football died.

 

 

 

Grow up you tart. 

[ozleicester]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Grow up you tart. 

Review shows this comment pointless - play on

[Yes N'Didi]

16 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

i would suggest 90% of ofsides are "close".. so 90% of offside decisions are out of refs hands?

The law has always been when in doubt then the benefit of doubt should always be with the attacking team - but if we're honest is it? I think referees are more afraid of allowing an offside goal to stand than to blow up early and not know what happened.

 

Its not like every offside will be reviewed. It was only highlighted so much last night because it is alien to us. There have been three competitive matches in England, a total of about 3 minutes of pause and in the end a goal correctly given where previously it wasn't. The refs (to their great credit) are continuing to try and referee as if the tech isn't there and use it when necessary.

 

i think a better example last night was Iborras penalty claim where the referee hadn't given the penalty and referred it to VAR because he genuinely wasn't sure. VAR is only to correct clear and obvious errors made by the referee - as it was debatable and the original decision was no penalty then they did not advise to change it as it wasn't a clear and obvious error. The game is still trying to put its faith in the original decision made whilst correcting clear and obvious errors - I can't see how this is a negative thing at all.

 

If Doucore punched it into the net against us and we were sat in 17th like Southampton then we'd all be screaming for it. I remember similar objections to goal line Tech when it came in but if it hadn't then RDL goal against Villa (3:2) nor Maguire against united would have stood. 

[Vlad the Fox]

2 hours ago, Livid said:

I think it has it's merits but needs to develop and speed up somewhat. 

 

It does kill that goal scoring experience. Imagine Maguire's last minute equaliser against Man Utd if the flag had gone up and the Ref had gone 'Hang on Lads just going to take a minute to check!' 

 

It was the correct decision last night but part of me thought if this is the future I'm not sure I like it.

If the flag goes up there is no goal scoring experience. 

 

I do agree though that it needs refined, speeding up, and my concern is that if they are constantly going to it the effect it will have on the flow of the game, will teams be appealing for the ref to go to it when under pressure to break up the oppostions momentum?  While I'm not totally sure about its impact on the game yet I think it should be a good thing but I think there are issues that need sorting out and tightening up which is exactly why this fa cup trial is going on. 

 

Also the crowd played up to it last night well but I think the system should include the crowd more as in cricket. Show on the screen what the VAR team are looking at, do a count down ect.

Edited 17 January 2018 by Vlad the Fox

[Yes N'Didi]

7 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Thanks.

 

I wonder why he didnt blow?

There was probably only a second between the flag going up and the ball going in the net. I guess we'll never know if he wanted to let the move play out or didn't reach the whistle in time.

[sk3since03]

VAR VAR VAR VAR VAR VAR VAR 

 

But no seriously, this will cause chaos  

[ozleicester]

2 minutes ago, Yes N'Didi said:

The law has always been when in doubt then the benefit of doubt should always be with the attacking team - but if we're honest is it? I think referees are more afraid of allowing an offside goal to stand than to blow up early and not know what happened.

 

Its not like every offside will be reviewed. It was only highlighted so much last night because it is alien to us. There have been three competitive matches in England, a total of about 3 minutes of pause and in the end a goal correctly given where previously it wasn't. The refs (to their great credit) are continuing to try and referee as if the tech isn't there and use it when necessary.

 

i think a better example last night was Iborras penalty claim where the referee hadn't given the penalty and referred it to VAR because he genuinely wasn't sure. VAR is only to correct clear and obvious errors made by the referee - as it was debatable and the original decision was no penalty then they did not advise to change it as it wasn't a clear and obvious error. The game is still trying to put its faith in the original decision made whilst correcting clear and obvious errors - I can't see how this is a negative thing at all.

 

If Doucore punched it into the net against us and we were sat in 17th like Southampton then we'd all be screaming for it. I remember similar objections to goal line Tech when it came in but if it hadn't then RDL goal against Villa (3:2) nor Maguire against united would have stood. 

Agree with much of this.. but, why didnt the ref blow for the offside on Riyad when the Lino's flag went up?

 

Seems to me he's handed his responsibility to the VAR, which is exactly my point, refs will become of very little relevance.

[ozleicester]

Hmm coming to the conclusion this is a "journey Vs destination" thing.

 

What is more important to you.... the result... or the game?

[Foxxed]

2 hours ago, Merging Cultures said:

That's how I saw it last night, the lines man was irrelevant. They made a decision, and it was overturned, might as well not have them and just try and speed up the VAR process.

For me, the game is not supposed to be perfect. It's supposed to have villains - the opposition, the refs. They create talking points for the rest of the week, which maintains fans interest, generates passion, and ultimately the revenue for the businesses.

Right now we are talking about the technology rather than the game.

This is probably the biggest point for me. We may gain accuracy but lose something more important.

 

Take tactics. The German football team started using machine learning and data to retrospectively analyse the last world cup.

 

If IBM can create a machine to beat the world's best Go and Chess player I'm fairly sure if we feed it enough data about our opponents and create the best tactics possible.

 

Then gone are the Mourinhos and Peps squabbling. Gone is Pearson calling people ostriches. Gone is Fergie planting careful lies to the press. Chant, chant about your highly effective geek overlords.

 

VAR isn't the above scenario. But we still may lose something. If VAR removes even slightly the passion, intensity and emotions from the game then it ruins the entertainment. I'd rather it be 1-0.  And I'll take the loses too. The refs probably favoured us in the first half of 15/16 anyway.

[Number 6]

I don't like it even with agreeing that errors should try to be removed. The potential buzzkill for goal celebrations being my biggest gripe.

 

Interesting how they deal with things like grappling in the box now too.

 

Goal line tech should be the yardstick. Exactly how technology should be implemented. 

 

It will be ploughed on with though because a 2 min pause before the goal is awarded is no biggie for the armchair fan who can watch all the replays too.

Edited 17 January 2018 by Number 6

[The Doctor]

16 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Agree with much of this.. but, why didnt the ref blow for the offside on Riyad when the Lino's flag went up?

 

Seems to me he's handed his responsibility to the VAR, which is exactly my point, refs will become of very little relevance.

Because there was a fraction of a second between the flag going up and the ball being in the net. That situation has happened millions of times before this tech. You're just bitching for the sake of it like a Luddite prat.