Football is Ruined - Play to the Whistle?VAR

[ozleicester]

The game is ruined,

 

Referees no longer have control and never again will you hear "Play to the whistle"

 

VAR will ruin the game, no player will stop just because of the refs whistle, they will need to play on, just in case the VAR disagrees with the ref.

 

January 16th will go down as the day football died.

 

 

[TheMightySystem]

21 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

The game is ruined,

 

Referees no longer have control and never again will you hear "Play to the whistle"

 

VAR will ruin the game, no player will stop just because of the refs whistle, they will need to play on, just in case the VAR disagrees with the ref.

 

January 16th will go down as the day football died.

 

 

Whilst a bit over the top in my opinion it is a good point to make. I wonder if in situations where a striker is clean through the ref will let it play out and then when when the move is over via a shot or slows down (Say the player runs towards the corner flag to wait for support to whip in a cross, meaning there is no longer a clear cut chance) they will then look at VAR and either pull the play back to where the offside was or give a freekick to the attacking team but must be no more then a 5 yard pass so they don't get too big an advantage from it?

While it is a tricky situation I hope it is given time as the rules we have in place today didn't appear in the first game of football and took time to come into effect, we should give VAR the same time as I believe in the long run it will prove to be a great peice of technology, just need patience in the first few seasons as mistakes will be made.

[ozleicester]

10 minutes ago, TheMightySystem said:

Whilst a bit over the top in my opinion it is a good point to make. I wonder if in situations where a striker is clean through the ref will let it play out and then when when the move is over via a shot or slows down (Say the player runs towards the corner flag to wait for support to whip in a cross, meaning there is no longer a clear cut chance) they will then look at VAR and either pull the play back to where the offside was or give a freekick to the attacking team but must be no more then a 5 yard pass so they don't get too big an advantage from it?

While it is a tricky situation I hope it is given time as the rules we have in place today didn't appear in the first game of football and took time to come into effect, we should give VAR the same time as I believe in the long run it will prove to be a great peice of technology, just need patience in the first few seasons as mistakes will be made.

Imagine the player does run to the flag, the whistle has gone...he still puts his cross in, the striker leaps and heads the ball it goes out.

 

VAR confirms the ref was right....the ref then books both of them for time wasting etc?

 

Edit...

 

I acknowledge it may sound "over the top", but i believe the game itsself will be changed by this and not for the good. The whole concept is to stop owners and investors whining about losing $ from refereeing decisions. As fans we all hate it too, but this change wil NOT benefit fans, it will move football away from a game, to "entertainment".

 

 

Edited 17 January 2018 by ozleicester

[TheMightySystem]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

Imagine the player does run to the flag, the whistle has gone...he still puts his cross in, the striker leaps and heads the ball it goes out.

 

VAR confirms the ref was right....the ref then books both of them for time wasting etc?

 

 

True, I guess it is something that will be made clearer in time. Maybe they just use VAR for chances like the one last night where it is instantly obvious there will be a chance on goal and trust the linesman to get it right for offsides further up the pitch?

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, TheMightySystem said:

True, I guess it is something that will be made clearer in time. Maybe they just use VAR for chances like the one last night where it is instantly obvious there will be a chance on goal and trust the linesman to get it right for offsides further up the pitch?

I recognise that im pitching the old "slippery slope" argument, but in truth rather than limiting or restricting the VAR decision making, i fully expect that referees will become almost irrelevant and all decisions will be made by VAR. Those in power will claim that every decision could lead to relegation and $$ loss, so they will press for less and less interpretation.

 

Football is a GAME, there will always be errors and variations...

 

A ball will bounce out of a divot and change direction, this isnt fair to the defender who just swung and missed it...

 

A penalty taker will slip on his last step, and double kick the ball () not fair... we need the pitched to be completely consistent, i know, lets play indoors on artificial grass.

[Merging Cultures]

I recognise that im pitching the old "slippery slope" argument, but in truth rather than limiting or restricting the VAR decision making, i fully expect that referees will become almost irrelevant and all decisions will be made by VAR. Those in power will claim that every decision could lead to relegation and $$ loss, so they will press for less and less interpretation.
 
Football is a GAME, there will always be errors and variations...
 
A ball will bounce out of a divot and change direction, this isnt fair to the defender who just swung and missed it...
 
A penalty taker will slip on his last step, and double kick the ball ([emoji185]) not fair... we need the pitched to be completely consistent, i know, lets play indoors on artificial grass.

That's how I saw it last night, the lines man was irrelevant. They made a decision, and it was overturned, might as well not have them and just try and speed up the VAR process.

For me, the game is not supposed to be perfect. It's supposed to have villains - the opposition, the refs. They create talking points for the rest of the week, which maintains fans interest, generates passion, and ultimately the revenue for the businesses.

Right now we are talking about the technology rather than the game.

[ozleicester]

2 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

For me, the game is not supposed to be perfect

Precisely

[Livid]

I think it has it's merits but needs to develop and speed up somewhat. 

 

It does kill that goal scoring experience. Imagine Maguire's last minute equaliser against Man Utd if the flag had gone up and the Ref had gone 'Hang on Lads just going to take a minute to check!' 

 

It was the correct decision last night but part of me thought if this is the future I'm not sure I like it.

[EnglishOxide]

5 minutes ago, Livid said:

It does kill that goal scoring experience. Imagine Maguire's last minute equaliser against Man Utd if the flag had gone up and the Ref had gone 'Hang on Lads just going to take a minute to check!' 

 

So you would rather the goal incorrectly ruled out rather than correctly ruled ok 15 seconds later? 

 

This system works. It needs a bit of refinement and the officials in this country to get into it but it works.

 

There will still be talking points, VAR is meant to improve the accuracy of officiating not perfect it.

 

To suggest VAR will ruin football is bollocks.

[Countryfox]

 

I know where you are coming from Oz but that’s only cus it is so alien at the moment ..   it will become slicker and less cumbersome I’m sure.   Nachos goal wasn’t what it is all about to me ...   it is there as a deterrent to the fookin cheating and gamesmanship that was ruining the game and my enjoyment of it ..  if it also stops some glaring errors then even better.  Some of our refs are fookin diabolical and it also helps to add consistency ...   that’s also important to me.   And finally ...  I think football stopped being a game ages ago ..   now it’s big business I’m afraid.

[Guest the fox]

people will hate VAR until they get cheated out of a goal that sends them down or take away a title.

my only problem is the time it takes (and it isn't even that bad) and the limitless reviews. just set a limit for the "challenges" that the teams can opt for. 2 in a half or 3 a game or something like that. (just like the NFL and NBA). and pls, don't review the abvious non-offside goals.

 

the ref can review the really obvious ones while the teams can decide to challenge 2 or 3 times a game for things they think are wrong

Edited 17 January 2018 by the fox

[Farrington fox]

I’m in favour of goal line technology, I haven’t seen VAR in action from last nights game so the jury’s out for me. But from what I’ve read on here, it’ll be to the detriment of the game. Maybe it’s use can be limited to things like diving. Dunno!

[ozleicester]

12 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

I know where you are coming from Oz but that’s only cus it is so alien at the moment ..   it will become slicker and less cumbersome I’m sure.   Nachos goal wasn’t what it is all about to me ...   it is there as a deterrent to the fookin cheating and gamesmanship that was ruining the game and my enjoyment of it ..  if it also stops some glaring errors then even better.  Some of our refs are fookin diabolical and it also helps to add consistency ...   that’s also important to me.   And finally ...  I think football stopped being a game ages ago ..   now it’s big business I’m afraid.

I doubt it, to me its not about the slickness or time spent, it is the fundamental change to the game.

 

The ref is no longer in charge! This is the problem and players, managers and fans will come to see refs as irrelevant. 

 

Next time Riyad is through on goal and the ref blows for offside, does he stop?.. does he play on and risk a card?

[Guest the fox]

"the refs are terrible, we always getting cheated. something needs to be done"

*VAR is in the picture

also the same people

"football is ruined, mistakes are part of the game"

 

imo, VAR is far from the finished product but it's going in the right path to making sure no one's efforts are being wasted. imo, do not review the goals if the other team doesn't challenge the decision

[The Quick Brown Fox]

If it's going to be used more then they need to speed up how quick decisions are made, or add more extra time on. With all the decisions and subs last night there should have been about 6 or 7 mins added on yet we only got 3. 

[Guest the fox]

4 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

I doubt it, to me its not about the slickness or time spent, it is the fundamental change to the game.

 

The ref is no longer in charge! This is the problem and players, managers and fans will come to see refs as irrelevant. 

 

Next time Riyad is through on goal and the ref blows for offside, does he stop?.. does he play on and risk a card?

think VAR is used for "offside" goals only, not while the ball is in play

[StriderHiryu]

I think this thread is being overly melodramatic. The system is on trial and it’s issues are very clear, notably the break in the game it causes. But it also helps the refs get the big calls right which is surely what every fan wants!

 

I think it will be sorted out in the long run. 

[ozleicester]

5 minutes ago, the fox said:

think VAR is used for "offside" goals only, not while the ball is in play

But.. if the ref thinks he is offside, but Riyad thinks he is onside.... the ref blows, Riyad plays on and scores.... VAR review find Riyad WAS offside - CARD!

 

But.. if the ref thinks he is offside, but Riyad thinks he is onside.... the ref blows, Riyad stops and game continues.... VAR review find Riyad WAS onside, goal lost.

 

Either way, the ref looks a twat and people stop paying attention to him

[ozleicester]

4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I think this thread is being overly melodramatic. The system is on trial and it’s issues are very clear, notably the break in the game it causes. But it also helps the refs get the big calls right which is surely what every fan wants!

 

I think it will be sorted out in the long run. 

This is my point, people are focusing on the "time thing"... its about fundamentally changing our game, its taking the game away from the referee, with out the respect for the ref, the game will die.

 

edit oh and IMHO refs curently get about 90% right... do we want perfection?

Edited 17 January 2018 by ozleicester

[SheppyFox]

The refs are incompetent.

[Guest the fox]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

But.. if the ref thinks he is offside, but Riyad thinks he is onside.... the ref blows, Riyad plays on and scores.... VAR review find Riyad WAS offside - CARD!

 

But.. if the ref thinks he is offside, but Riyad thinks he is onside.... the ref blows, Riyad stops and game continues.... VAR review find Riyad WAS onside, goal lost.

 

the ref will play the advantage so riyad won't get a card. i'm not so keen on the open play "offsides" because they will take away from the linesman. offside goals are a different matter.

 

like i said, there need to be a limit for how many challenges a team can make. if the goal isn't offside, didn't review it unless the other team challenges.

 

here's apost from @SCP4Ever to clear somethings up

 

 

"I have quite a few things to say about VAR, that hopefully will help many of you understand how it ('s supposed to) work(s).
First and foremost, yes. ALL goals are reviewed by the VAR. It's one of the 4 things where it can intervene, and I'll try to explain it as well as possible, but bear in mind that this is all still a work in progress.

The 4 situations where the VAR can intervene are:

Goals - All the goals are subject to review, and if there's any irregularity in the play leading up to it (like a foul or offside), it can be overturned.

Penalties - If the VAR spots a penalty foul that the ref missed, he can call him up and tell him. He can also correct the referee if he thinks a penalty has been incorrectly given.
Red cards - If the VAR spots a red card offense that the officials on the pitch missed, he can communicate that to the referee.

Mistaken identities - This one is a bit more vague, since it can include simulations (diving and the like) and bookings given to wrong players.

 

Now this bit here is SUPER IMPORTANT. The VAR can only intervene when the game is stopped. As soon as it resumes, it's done, which is why it's important that everyone takes this into account. The VAR needs to move fast, and the ref, if in doubt, whould wait in order to get the all clear or not.
As you probably noticed, the VAR doesn't intervene in offsides. BUT, since all goals are reviewed, it's the (current) recommendation from the International Board to, when in doubt, let play continue, and if there's an offside, the goal will be overruled.

 

As things are now, the countries already using VAR have different experiences and procedure implementation, which is good, because it gives varying information that allows for a better protocol, improved communication, etc. Here in Portugal, we've had a handful of interventions, the time lost has been nominal at best, but in Italy, for example, there's been games with 8 and 10 minutes added time because of VAR.

 

I can tell you that it can be a roller coaster of emotions as well. Sporting had a pretty comfortable game at the start of the season, playing Estoril. We were winning 2-0 before the 15 minute mark, and were coasting to another 3 points, when 5 minutes from time, Lucas Evangelista scored a screamer from outside the box. We prepared ourselves for a complicated last minutes, when we got a 3rd goal just into stoppage time. It was a relief, but short lived, as the VAR called for an offside prior to the goal, getting us back to a 1 goal lead. And as our fears blossomed, Estoril equalized in the last minute of added time, only for THAT goal to be also disallowed for an offside, allowing us to bag the win and breathe a much deserved sigh of relief."

[st albans fox]

6 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

But.. if the ref thinks he is offside, but Riyad thinks he is onside.... the ref blows, Riyad plays on and scores.... VAR review find Riyad WAS offside - CARD!

 

But.. if the ref thinks he is offside, but Riyad thinks he is onside.... the ref blows, Riyad stops and game continues.... VAR review find Riyad WAS onside, goal lost.

 

Either way, the ref looks a twat and people stop paying attention to him

ONCE the ref blows the whistle there can be no VAR review.  So once the whistle goes, the play should stop. (Like now) . The question becomes whether refs will stop blowing up for tight calls - perhaps the lino will put up h8s flag but tell him not to blow as tight.  Incidents where the crosser of the ball is given incorrectly offside - I don’t think that qualifies for review. It’s only the scorer. 

 

Btw, I have never been an advocate of VAR - I think the arguments about referee decisions etc etc is part of the game. you get some and you dont get some. goal line technology - fine. I always put forward the point about when’s is a goal not a goal. Currently, we score and my first look (if there was any thought of offside), whilst jumping up and down is to the linesman. No flag = carry on jumping. What now? I can’t celebrate knowing I might be wrong to do so. Can’t do it. if VAR was only going to award goals that were ruled out then fine, but it will rule out offside ones as tight as last nights and problem for me. So i think it’s best we don’t have it.  My view won’t carry the argument though and it will be implemented. 

Edited 17 January 2018 by st albans fox

[Bluetintedspecs]

Being resistant to change is a perfectly understandable  response. Personally I feel there are more pros than cons and I'm  an "old school, back  in the day" lover of the beautiful game!

It needs some refinement and clarification or possible rule changes.

The biggest benefit to  me is eradicating the potential crazy errors that define or  ruin a season!

Edited 17 January 2018 by Bluetintedspecs

[ozleicester]

15 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

ONCE the ref blows the whistle there can be no VAR review.  So once the whistle goes, the play should stop. (Like now) . The question becomes whether refs will stop blowing up for tight calls - perhaps the lino will put up h8s flag but tell him not to blow as tight.  Incidents where the crosser of the ball is given incorrectly offside - I don’t think that qualifies for review. It’s only the scorer. 

 

Btw, I have never been an advocate of VAR - I think the arguments about referee decisions etc etc is part of the game. you get some and you dont get some. goal line technology - fine. I always put forward the point about when’s is a goal not a goal. Currently, we score and my first look (if there was any thought of offside), whilst jumping up and down is to the linesman. No flag = carry on jumping. What now? I can’t celebrate knowing I might be wrong to do so. Can’t do it. if VAR was only going to award goals that were ruled out then fine, but it will rule out offside ones as tight as last nights and problem for me. So i think it’s best we don’t have it.  My view won’t carry the argument though and it will be implemented. 

So.. did the ref NOT blow for Riyad's "offside"? and if he had.. should Riyad have stopped?

Edited 17 January 2018 by ozleicester

[m4DD0gg]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The game is ruined,

 

Referees no longer have control and never again will you hear "Play to the whistle"

 

VAR will ruin the game, no player will stop just because of the refs whistle, they will need to play on, just in case the VAR disagrees with the ref.

 

January 16th will go down as the day football died.

 

 

What a load of bollocks.