Criticism of our Young Players

[BenTheFox]

It's not just a Leicester problem. The 'win at all costs' football culture in this country that's driven by money is so geared against young players being given a chance to develop and grow. 

Edited 28 January 2018 by BenTheFox

[Tielemans63]

1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

It's not just a Leicester problem. The 'win at all costs' football culture in this country driven by money is so geared against young players young players being given a chance to develop and grow. 

You're right. Which is probably why the England team is so unsuccessful whereas in Germany and Spain where they put the emphasis on developing young talent, the national teams are thriving. I'm convinced that English youngsters are just as talented but they have many more roadblocks in the way.

[turtmcfly]

9 hours ago, CheeseHead said:

Totally agree with the OP. I for one thought that Gray's decision making was actually better yesterday. On numerous occasions he found some excellent space to receive the ball and was allowed to run forwards. I found myself actually shouting 'shoot' on more than one occasion because the way things opened up it was the right thing to do. On one occasion he could have shot but correctly picked out Diabate who almost scored. I can see improvements in Gray but we need to be patient..

Certainly in the first half it was noticeable (for me anyway) how he delayed shooting when I'm sure last year he would have gone for it. Indeed prior to this game I can't remember his last shot from distance. He was a lot less shy in the second half, but I don't remember him shooting from anywhere daft, and he had a few on target. The only complaint I'd have is his shooting wasn't great - don't think his decision making was particularly bad, or that he had anything as clear cut in terms of alternative options when he did shoot as Iheanacho did for his first. I do wonder what was going through his mind watching Diabate have a blinder, and whether this made him a little bit desperate to score. 

[BenTheFox]

15 minutes ago, Paddy. said:

You're right. Which is probably why the England team is so unsuccessful whereas in Germany and Spain where they put the emphasis on developing young talent, the national teams are thriving. I'm convinced that English youngsters are just as talented but they have many more roadblocks in the way.

100%. In the U21s Euro final, England only narrowly lost to Germany despite having their team having 14,000 more minutes under their belt at Bundesliga level than ours did at Premier League level. Staggering figure. 

 

 

[AyewJoking]

Gray may have been a little greedy but it was Peterborough ffs.

 

[SystonFox]

Id rather have Stephen Hughes and Gareth Williams in the middle of the park than Ndidi and James.

 

roar

[Tommy G]

I thought Barnes was way greedier than Gray...I understand HB won't get many chances in the first time in front of Puel but he needs to learn to not be so greedy and take the glory, will make him a better player. Gray is learning that, slowly

[ScouseFox]

it’s an age thing. the older fans HATE the younger players of this generation because they get paid loads, they’ve got instagram accounts and they’re 21 years old and have already spent, shagged and enjoyed their life infinitely more than the 50 year old fans we have. simple as that. 

[Colourmy]

50 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

it’s an age thing. the older fans HATE the younger players of this generation because they get paid loads, they’ve got instagram accounts and they’re 21 years old and have already spent, shagged and enjoyed their life infinitely more than the 50 year old fans we have. simple as that. 

It is an age thing but not for the reasons you have stated. He can fill his boots on all those for me!

It's the entitled swagger they rock around with nowadays, that's my issue, it's almost like they can't be told anything and the fact they have loads of cash must vindicate them in some way. Being paid plenty by a club is their way of playing the long game with a young player, hoping them to come good, not that you have made it and you don't have to bother anymore.

I have never been a great fan of Grey to be honest because I don't think he'll get what he has to do. He has been around first-team setups for a while now and hasn't just been drafted in from a youth team, his game should have started to change by now. His lack of continued starts with the first team suggests I'm not the only one with this view either.

 

[foxfanazer]

22 hours ago, Paddy. said:

I love this forum (and God knows I waste a disproportionate amount of my free time contributing to it) but one thing really pisses me off and that's the battering some posters give our young lads. It's the same at the ground to the point where I regularly get into disagreements (albeit friendly-ish) with some of the miserable feckers who sit near me.

 

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion but for the life of me I can't understand why some sections of our support are so keen to criticise our young players when we have probably the most promising group of youngsters in our history. There's a reason Gray, Chilwell, N'didi and Maguire are being linked to other clubs, it's because they're ****ing good players who we should cherish rather than berate the minute it's doesn't go so well.

 

The thing with young players is that they're, well, young. So by definition they're going to make mistakes and poor decisions sometime because you only get experience by playing and making those errors. When I read people in the Peterborough thread saying we should flog Gray I wonder if we saw the same game because what I saw was a guy that Posh just couldn't live with but who needs to just refine his game a little. Likewise, if you not excited by the potential in the likes of Chilwell, Maguire and Iheanacho then I wonder if you're just a miserable sod.

 

Similarly, at times this season, Chilwell, N'didi, Amartey, Iheanacho and even Harvey Barnes (after one bloody appearance) have taken some heavy stick which seems not only disproportionate but massively counter productive to me. 

 

I'm not saying people should say they've been wonderful when they haven't been and of course they're not beyond constructive criticism....it's more the 'he's shit'/ 'sell him' / 'should have sold him' / 'he thinks he's better than he is' comments that piss me off as they just smack of jealousy. It's probably those fans who will be first to call them a traitorous cvnt when they move to a bigger club.

 

Sorry to rant but I think we've got it good right now and as I say, I think we should be excited about the team's potential. 

Thank you, this is my biggest gripe on here too. The Gray criticism in particular is embarrassing! Most clubs would love a player with his talent and potential. 

[Foxxed]

21 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Paddy, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of your post, it is a huge bug bear of mine and just hope some of our youngsters don't read this forum. My own son at just seventeen is making his own way in football at a much lower level albeit he was at a development school of another Premiership club. He has a number of friends in our Leicester  academy and guess what, in every way, despite their physical training, they are still just kids like all of our kids. They are not all suddenly emotionally and physically the finished article at 19 or 20 years, though some supporters appear to expect them to be. Their spirit can be broken very easily. Developing a so called hard exterior,  enabling them to bat off hugely over the top sometimes ignorant criticism often isn't a natural thing to some and it takes time, if developed at all. When young and learning your trade, like any other job, inconsistencies are natural in most, football is no different. Chilwell for example can have a largely effective and very good game, make one bad ill-judged pass and certain poster's on here can't wait to get their knife into his ribs suggesting that he'll almost never come to anything. It's as almost as if they believe they could do better job themselves from a position of sitting in an armchair, belly hanging over their trousers, eating cheesy Wotsits whilst scratching their bollocks.  To get even one game for our team is a huge achievement. 

 

We wonder sometimes why footballers seem more aloof these days and not in touch with their supporters. If I was a young player and came on here and read some of the comments, I in return would tend to feel disconnected or at least wary of our supporters. We're never going to buy a ready made Ronaldo or Messi, we are always going to have to develop our own or imported talent. We, I suggest, can at least have a minor role in their progression by encouraging them when possible. We have some brilliant young prospects,  let' try and appreciate them and be part of their journey which is a hugely exciting part of being a supporter. Didn't Diabate have a good debut yesterday albeit against a lower league club. God forbid he makes a mistake in his next game! Let's cut the lad some slack if he does.

Fantastic post. As with Paddy and StanSP. Can't really add anything but this thread is top .

[Guest Col city fan]

It’s not only about the young players.

Football fans and this forum as a representation of football fans are generally fickle.

If anything, I think players on here are given longer BECAUSE they are young. People generally give them more patience and more of a chance.

The criticism of any player on here is always apparent. There have been threads over time, devoted to slagging Wes, Albrighton, Vardy, Mahrez and the such like. They aren’t young players.

And the change of mind from one week to another, from one player to another is just how it is. Age isn’t the issue.

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, ScouseFox said:

it’s an age thing. the older fans HATE the younger players of this generation because they get paid loads, they’ve got instagram accounts and they’re 21 years old and have already spent, shagged and enjoyed their life infinitely more than the 50 year old fans we have. simple as that. 

Utter tripe..

[Foxxed]

21 hours ago, the fox said:

2 years and he's still making the same mistakes over and over again

he played a lot of games (even before he came here). i'm done with "he's still young" crap! if he doesn't show me a reason to back him up, i will not.

i've been defending him but enough is enough.

 

how does a 22 year old from league 2 comes and looks more composed and just a better player. gray is fighting to be the first sub, diabate is fighting to start games. 

Perhaps Diabate is at a higher level than Gray. And Gray definitely needs to improve in areas. But to remove support for a premier league quality 22 year old winger because we have another great one seems bizarre and short sighted. He is frustrating because you see him painfully trying to improve in areas he's not so good in. But that seems to blind people to the good work he does. I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticised. He should. And he will be. But what annoys me is that some people - and I'm not including you - enjoy getting the knives out. And to enjoy doing that to players whose success is our success is frankly crazy.

[ZeGuy]

5 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I thought Barnes was way greedier than Gray...I understand HB won't get many chances in the first time in front of Puel but he needs to learn to not be so greedy and take the glory, will make him a better player. Gray is learning that, slowly

Nope, not really. I thought that too as Puel gave him his chance, but he slowly reversed to his usual greediness. Diabate showed us that being young ain't the problem.

 

I like Gray but until now he doesn't seem to want to learn. He was infuriating against Petersborough and there is just no way he'd get his starting place if he keeps it on. If Diabate can play on the left or Mahrez is put again in the hole, it will be even more difficult for him.

Edited 29 January 2018 by ZeGuy

[Foxxed]

Anyway, from our ageing 2015 squad we have a potentially amazing youth squad, players that are learning and developing at the same age and alongside each other.

 

Gray, Barnes and Diabate swarming forwards, Kelechi moments away from a killer final ball, N'didi's interceptions and tackles hammering in the opposition, Chilwell threatening from left back, Maguire both denying attacks and starting our own.

 

It's incredible that this is a legitimately highly exciting team, and one that potentially includes no premier league winning medals and doesn't include Vardy or Mahrez, all not even in their prime yet.

 

[themightyfin]

People used to say Ronaldo was greedy when he was young.

Gray is a young lad and I like the fact sometimes he’s greedy. It shows he has confidence in his own ability much rather him be like that than to shy away and be scared to have a go. He’s a flair player who makes things happen those types of players are always labelled the same. Why can’t we just enjoy the fact we have a brilliant young English talent on our hands that many clubs would love to have instead of getting on his back if he makes a wrong choice. He’s still a kid and he will learn, We as fans have been spoilt in the last few years that’s our trouble. Much rather see him bombing down the wing than Lee bloody Philpott 

[the fox]

8 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Perhaps Diabate is at a higher level than Gray. And Gray definitely needs to improve in areas. But to remove support for a premier league quality 22 year old winger because we have another great one seems bizarre and short sighted. He is frustrating because you see him painfully trying to improve in areas he's not so good in. But that seems to blind people to the good work he does. I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticised. He should. And he will be. But what annoys me is that some people - and I'm not including you - enjoy getting the knives out. And to enjoy doing that to players whose success is our success is frankly crazy.

i can't invest emotionally in a player that had little to no progress for 2 years. he has enough experience but he just isn't improving.

 

i said it before, gray can't replace mahrez (which is what i want, a mahrez's adequate replacement) but diabate on the other hand, he looks the part. the physical ability plus the maturity (and yeah i know, i'm jumping the gun here but i like what i saw)

 

talk is cheap, if you gonna say that you will try to improve than 2 years later you are the same player, don't expect me to defend you.

Edited 29 January 2018 by the fox

[Bluetintedspecs]

4 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

it’s an age thing. the older fans HATE the younger players of this generation because they get paid loads, they’ve got instagram accounts and they’re 21 years old and have already spent, shagged and enjoyed their life infinitely more than the 50 year old fans we have. simple as that. 

I've seen some rubbish spouted on this forum but wow, I'm 54 and I love our young players coming through.

HATE is a stupid word and completely out of context in this thread! I would guess that the majority on here defending the youngsters are the OLDER group you refer too.

 

[Tommy G]

41 minutes ago, the fox said:

i can't invest emotionally in a player that had little to no progress for 2 years. he has enough experience but he just isn't improving.

 

i said it before, gray can't replace mahrez (which is what i want, a mahrez's adequate replacement) but diabate on the other hand, he looks the part. the phisical ability plus the maturity (and yeah i know, i'm jumping the gun here but i like what i saw)

 

talk is cheap, if you gonna say that you will try to improve than 2 years later you are the same player, don't expect me to defend you.

What do you mean by invest emotionally? Intrigued. 

[Tommy G]

2 hours ago, ZeGuy said:

Nope, not really. I thought that too as Puel gave him his chance, but he slowly reversed to his usual greediness. Diabate showed us that being young ain't the problem.

 

I like Gray but until now he doesn't seem to want to learn. He was infuriating against Petersborough and there is just no way he'd get his starting place if he keeps it on. If Diabate can play on the left or Mahrez is put againg in the hole, it will be even more difficult for him.

He won’t turn into a miracle overnight. Think with Gray whether he is greedy or not he will always put the opponent on the back foot with his pace - before you say it I know Schlupp had pace but he had the footballing brain equivalent of Gemma Collins. 

 

Having that sort of outlet and threat is different to other options we have. Still on the bench for me so I’m sort of agreeing with you!

[the fox]

8 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

What do you mean by invest emotionally? Intrigued. 

wasting my time defending him time and time again. i'm happy to be proven wrong but he has the mentality of a big player but the excution of a squad player.

 

when players are physically limited, i don't get disappointed when they come up short, but with gray, he has a great footballing body but the intangibles are just not there.

 

he's just too tense, he is trying to force the game instead of just going with the flow. just like a fish against the stream.
frustrating!

 

Edited 29 January 2018 by the fox

[ZeGuy]

2 hours ago, themightyfin said:

People used to say Ronaldo was greedy when he was young.

Gray is a young lad and I like the fact sometimes he’s greedy. It shows he has confidence in his own ability much rather him be like that than to shy away and be scared to have a go. He’s a flair player who makes things happen those types of players are always labelled the same. Why can’t we just enjoy the fact we have a brilliant young English talent on our hands that many clubs would love to have instead of getting on his back if he makes a wrong choice. He’s still a kid and he will learn, We as fans have been spoilt in the last few years that’s our trouble. Much rather see him bombing down the wing than Lee bloody Philpott 

C. Ronaldo scored. A lot. In this case greediness can be somewhat excused (I aknowledge his incredible feats and records but will never like him as a footballer).

 

Gray is still miles away when it comes to end product and it has nothing to do with his abilities (he's clearly talented) but with his judgement. That can be worked on and I think that he will come good eventually.

 

It's just the little Diabate show (early day, I know) that dramatically highlighted the areas where Gray is unfortunately lacking. And they're the same age with one having never played for this team before.

[foxfanazer]

4 hours ago, Colourmy said:

It is an age thing but not for the reasons you have stated. He can fill his boots on all those for me!

It's the entitled swagger they rock around with nowadays, that's my issue, it's almost like they can't be told anything and the fact they have loads of cash must vindicate them in some way. Being paid plenty by a club is their way of playing the long game with a young player, hoping them to come good, not that you have made it and you don't have to bother anymore.

I have never been a great fan of Grey to be honest because I don't think he'll get what he has to do. He has been around first-team setups for a while now and hasn't just been drafted in from a youth team, his game should have started to change by now. His lack of continued starts with the first team suggests I'm not the only one with this view either.

 

Diabate looks the part after 1 game

 

oh ft you never cease to amaze me

[Detroit Blues]

It is worth noting that players like Chilwell, Gray, Ndidi, etc. are further along in their development than the players on the team everyone rates:

At 21, Riyad Mahrez scored 4 goals in 36 appearances for Le Havre in French Ligue 2. 

At 21, Ngolo Kante played in the third tier of french football for Boulogne. 

At 21, Vardy was playing non-league football. 

 

The fact of the matter is, some people on here would have slated those players back then. Nobody on FT wants to let kids develop, learn, make mistakes, and get better. We want all of these young players to be finished products.