Negativity

[Reg Vardy]

9 hours ago, broughtonblue said:

This.  And 3 years ago in tbe great escape we played some brilliant football all season, and even though we lost we came away pleased with the effort and prtformance. 

Listening to his interview on the way home he said he wanted to give others game time to see what they could do, what? 2 players on in the 91st minute

 

Clueless puel. 

 

I might take a book to read against west ham 

I vividly remember leaving the 0-0 draw at home to Hull, all smiles as we left the ground....what a wonderful world being whistled....

[Reg Vardy]

10 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Well, as it stands, we're looking closer to dropping down to in between 10th and 12th spot... Under these circumstances and given the talent at our disposal, a disappointment.

So, Puel got us out of relegation troubles, yeah? Really tough with our setup and again, the players on our books, the amount of money in the bank. Nobody else could've accomplished that - by the way, why talking about "relegation trouble" when we were in 18th spot after only eight matches? All this talk about relegation trouble that early into the season, and that after losing against Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool, four of the best six teams in this league, and losing by fine margins (one-goal difference against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool)? C'mon, that's highly exaggerated. There's no proof Shakespeare or any other manager could've done the same that Puel did until mid-December 2017.

 

So, he's bringing through youth players, eh? Why is that? In the case of Choudhoury, because we have/had no other CM option available, with King loaned out, and James and Iborra ruled out due to unfortunate injuries until the end of the season, and Ndidi suspended for a short while. Barnes was rotting away in the U23 after a promising spell at Barnsley before his Premier League debut. What other youth players are there? Demarai Gray and Chilwell were introduced by Ranieri. To me personally, it's not the question whether he wanted to include more youngsters in the squad, moreso because his hands were tied since we were running out of options due to injuries and suspensions and the transfer window long gone.

 

Dropping Morgan and Simpson? Yeah, because he finally realized that after six matches following Wes' return from injury that at age 34, he simply isn't the player any longer he once was. Simpson started off strongly in our back four, but has been completely overwhelmed by being forced to play right wing-back. You can blame Simpson for that, but ultimately, that's Puel's decision.

Did I miss Shakespeare out? 

[Johnthefoxrayner]

9 hours ago, Reg Vardy said:

Did I miss Shakespeare out? 

Finishing eight in the PL is progress imo we finished 12 last season 

[Gazza M]

I think a lot of people decided Puel was no good based on some Southampton fans opinions, right on his appointment last October. Yes, October. Six months ago. For me managers go when you go on runs of five, six and seven run losing streaks. 

For god sake get real everyone. The moaning is much more boring than the football for me. 

The football played by Claudio was turgid in the 2nd season. Believe me its more boring shipping goals left right and centre. Remember the boring Southampton tearing us to shreds at St Mary's last year 3-0 under dilly ding dilly dong. 4-0 down to Man U at their place and getting stuffed by Liverpool was also a classic Claudio. 

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

I think a lot of people decided Puel was no good based on some Southampton fans opinions, right on his appointment last October. Yes, October. Six months ago. For me managers go when you go on runs of five, six and seven run losing streaks. 

For god sake get real everyone. The moaning is much more boring than the football for me. 

The football played by Claudio was turgid in the 2nd season. Believe me its more boring shipping goals left right and centre. Remember the boring Southampton tearing us to shreds at St Mary's last year 3-0 under dilly ding dilly dong. 4-0 down to Man U at their place and getting stuffed by Liverpool was also a classic Claudio. 

Claude won’t ever win the fans back. Simply people have made their mind up. Thursday night I saw a 0-0 which was a few tweaks away from a good result. I didn’t see the inability to control a game at home to WBA under Shakespeare or the disorganised defensive messes of Ranieri putting 11 men behind the ball in the second season.  

 

I give you this: it’s the end of the season now and all importance is gone. At end of last season, we had a manager attempting some weirdo formation which led to an absolutely pathetic performance against Spurs, the only time I’ve ever switched off a game (I didn’t bother going even with a ST). Similarly we played Bournemouth last day of the season and it was pretty much similar end of season fare. 

Edited 21 April 2018 by Cardiff_Fox

[Matt]

19 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

I think a lot of people decided Puel was no good based on some Southampton fans opinions, right on his appointment last October. Yes, October. Six months ago. For me managers go when you go on runs of five, six and seven run losing streaks. 

For god sake get real everyone. The moaning is much more boring than the football for me. 

The football played by Claudio was turgid in the 2nd season. Believe me its more boring shipping goals left right and centre. Remember the boring Southampton tearing us to shreds at St Mary's last year 3-0 under dilly ding dilly dong. 4-0 down to Man U at their place and getting stuffed by Liverpool was also a classic Claudio. 

"I think a lot of people decided Puel was no good based on some Southampton fans opinions"

Maybe, but what they said is turning out to be pretty spot on.

 

"For me manager go when you go on runs of five, six and seven run losing streaks"

Well, admitedly we haven't lost five, six or seven in a row, but the form says 4 wins in 17, with no home league win since January, it's certainly alarming, is it not? Or is that acceptable, should we not even be noting it? Simply sweeping it under the carpet and pretending everything is rosy?

 

"The football played by Claudio was turgid in the 2nd season"

Correct and he got sacked, no-ones disputing it, I don't see what your point is.

 

Infact, yeah I guess you're right, not being able to break down Southampton, Bournemouth, Stoke, Swansea (all at home) with Stoke (Again) and West Ham away, whilst losing to Burnley (Not so much of an embarrasment albeit frustrating - They're doing well despite what people on here say), Newcastle, Everton, Watford, Crystal Palace is much more acceptable...

Edited 21 April 2018 by Matt

[chapero82]

Maybe a thread should be made on blind optimism!

 

bbc radio leicester had Southampton’s commentators on and said he was the exactly there as he is here! 

 

Yes they are doing badly this year too but as they said that is because they recruited a managerthat is just as bad and didn’t recruit in the summer!

 

This still doesn’t change the fact that he was as bad there as he is here! 

 

Puel talks a great game but it hasn’t delivered! 

Edited 21 April 2018 by chapero82

[Reg Vardy]

3 hours ago, Johnthefoxrayner said:

Finishing eight in the PL is progress imo we finished 12 last season 

Mate started in 1965....8th is real progress....what gets me is the line, we have got all that money, and we have signed crap players.....every club in the Premier league has got more money, the platform we compete in is the same as it always was, finance is at a higher level.

Ieanacho, Diabate, Maguire, all look the part to my untrainedeye, but what do I know?

i also believe the criticism wouldn’t be there if we were 7th.....funny old game

[volpeazzurro]

25 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

Maybe a thread should be made on blind optimism!

 

bbc radio leicester had Southampton’s commentators on and said he was the exactly there as he is here! 

 

Yes they are doing badly this year too but as they said that is because they recruited a managerthat is just as bad and didn’t recruit in the summer!

 

This still doesn’t change the fact that he was as bad there as he is here! 

 

Puel talks a great game but it hasn’t delivered! 

Southampton had sold any attacking players of note together with injuries. To have tried to play any sort of attacking form of football would have been suicidal. Yes he was defensive and it was possibly dull. Yet ... still manages to finish 8th and a cup final, their first for years, a real failure eh! I think their real failure was to constantly ship out a list of incredibly good players at huge profit year after year, very little of which was meaningfully reinvested.

 

Fast forward to Leicester and again Puel is at a team with problems with a fan base many of which that at time would be happy to take two places above the relegation zone. Despite a handful of players that are exceptional, we had a bunch of ill purchased misfits being played out of position or in unfamiliar formations trying to hoof a ball up in the air to fit a style of play not comensurate with the attributes of those same players.

 

Suddenly we're 8th and the pessamists are out along with the 'I told you so brigade'. This personal 'point proving' 'I know better than the manager from my armchair' attitude seems far more important to some than Leicester City doing well. Am I happy with all the performances I'm seeing? No. Is Puel? I doubt it but he's hardly going to publicly castegate his players just to appease a few gobby supporters. He's got to work with those same players the next week and try to get a result. I bet he reognises both the deficiencies both in performances and personnel also.

 

I doubt many other managers would have achieved more than a very good 8th with this bunch! Its about where we could reasonably expect to be imo. Puel like any other manager will want to do better but won't be able to until there's a few hirings and firings. You can't play any system without the right players complimenting it, didn't we learn that much from Shakespeare?  A new manager now would have to conduct transfers blindly as he wouldn't know the physical attributes let alone the personalities of this squad (including troublemaking, press grassing know it alls).

[Reg Vardy]

23 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Southampton had sold any attacking players of note together with injuries. To have tried to play any sort of attacking form of football would have been suicidal. Yes he was defensive and it was possibly dull. Yet ... still manages to finish 8th and a cup final, their first for years, a real failure eh! I think their real failure was to constantly ship out a list of incredibly good players at huge profit year after year, very little of which was meaningfully reinvested.

 

Fast forward to Leicester and again Puel is at a team with problems with a fan base many of which that at time would be happy to take two places above the relegation zone. Despite a handful of players that are exceptional, we had a bunch of ill purchased misfits being played out of position or in unfamiliar formations trying to hoof a ball up in the air to fit a style of play not comensurate with the attributes of those same players.

 

Suddenly we're 8th and the pessamists are out along with the 'I told you so brigade'. This personal 'point proving' 'I know better than the manager from my armchair' attitude seems far more important to some than Leicester City doing well. Am I happy with all the performances I'm seeing? No. Is Puel? I doubt it but he's hardly going to publicly castegate his players just to appease a few gobby supporters. He's got to work with those same players the next week and try to get a result. I bet he reognises both the deficiencies both in performances and personnel also.

 

I doubt many other managers would have achieved more than a very good 8th with this bunch! Its about where we could reasonably expect to be imo. Puel like any other manager will want to do better but won't be able to until there's a few hirings and firings. You can't play any system without the right players complimenting it, didn't we learn that much from Shakespeare?  A new manager now would have to conduct transfers blindly as he wouldn't know the physical attributes let alone the personalities of this squad (including troublemaking, press grassing know it alls).

Great post, love the line I know better than the manager from my armchair line....so very true

[MC Prussian]

30 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Southampton had sold any attacking players of note together with injuries. To have tried to play any sort of attacking form of football would have been suicidal. Yes he was defensive and it was possibly dull. Yet ... still manages to finish 8th and a cup final, their first for years, a real failure eh! I think their real failure was to constantly ship out a list of incredibly good players at huge profit year after year, very little of which was meaningfully reinvested.

 

Fast forward to Leicester and again Puel is at a team with problems with a fan base many of which that at time would be happy to take two places above the relegation zone. Despite a handful of players that are exceptional, we had a bunch of ill purchased misfits being played out of position or in unfamiliar formations trying to hoof a ball up in the air to fit a style of play not comensurate with the attributes of those same players.

 

Suddenly we're 8th and the pessamists are out along with the 'I told you so brigade'. This personal 'point proving' 'I know better than the manager from my armchair' attitude seems far more important to some than Leicester City doing well. Am I happy with all the performances I'm seeing? No. Is Puel? I doubt it but he's hardly going to publicly castegate his players just to appease a few gobby supporters. He's got to work with those same players the next week and try to get a result. I bet he reognises both the deficiencies both in performances and personnel also.

 

I doubt many other managers would have achieved more than a very good 8th with this bunch! Its about where we could reasonably expect to be imo. Puel like any other manager will want to do better but won't be able to until there's a few hirings and firings. You can't play any system without the right players complimenting it, didn't we learn that much from Shakespeare?  A new manager now would have to conduct transfers blindly as he wouldn't know the physical attributes let alone the personalities of this squad (including troublemaking, press grassing know it alls).

Entertaining thoughts, but ultimately flawed. Just another attempt at absolving the manager of any or most responsibility.

 

His achievement with Southampton needs to be put into context - finishing closer to 17th spot than to 7th isn't really a label of quality, it just means you've been slightly better than the teams behind you. They were only ahead of Bournemouth by goal difference and only two points ahead of us! As far as losing out quality players - well, he also fell out with several important players back then (Fonte, Redmond, Bertrand, plus an unhappy Shane Long).

 

Coming back to our stance, we've hardly lost quality players last summer or this past January transfer window through permanent transfers. Our squad on paper is better/more talented than Southampton's last year, I mean most of this squad was part of the team that won us the league title two years ago! Right now, Puel is on track to finish in 8th spot again, on a series of highly disappointing results, with a team unable to find the net more than once on a regular basis! It's both bemusing and bewildering, but we are on course to finish on 46 points this season, just like Puel did with Southampton! Groundhog Day. What has our squad learnt from that debacle and what has Puel taken from it?

 

It's a reoccurring theme amongst people overly patient with Puel, claiming he's managed us to 8th place as if it's some sort of special achievement or as if we've just got there a week ago, after weeks or months of achieving surprisingly good results, fighting our way up the table.

The reality reads different: Four wins out of the last 17, no home win since the end of January. Whatever positive aspects there were under Puel at the start of his tenure with five wins out of this first eight matches, it's pretty much all gone now.

May I remind you that we've been clinging on to this sensational 8th spot for weeks now, whilst at least two teams below us are catching up fast?

 

I'm sorry, but the season's not over yet! All the signs point to a finish in between 10th and 12th spot. If we get more than three points out of the last four matches, we'll have been incredibly lucky.

 

But of course, the people quick to excuse the manager will then point to the fact that "he managed us to 10th/11th/12th spot" and that we should be grateful to have such a great manager at our disposal.

 

He failed to connect at Southampton (quoting The Guardian here), and he continues to fail to connect here. Mention his previous success and the glorious relationship with and nurturing of younger players as much as you want to, but that was years, if not a decade ago and in his native France.

Edited 21 April 2018 by MC Prussian

[HighPeakFox]

No doubt the Southampton fans are right. However, they never got to find out what might happen given time. I hope we don't keep slashing and burning, short term gain is a losing game. 

[Reg Vardy]

4 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Entertaining thoughts, but ultimately flawed. Just another attempt at absolving the manager of any or most responsibility.

 

His achievement with Southampton needs to be put into context - finishing closer to 17th spot than to 7th isn't really a label of quality, it just means you've been slightly better than the teams behind you. They were only ahead of Bournemouth by goal difference and only two points ahead of us! As far as losing out quality players - well, he also fell out with at least one important player back then (Fonte) coming back to our stance, we've hardly lost quality players last summer or this past January transfer window through permanent transfers. Our squad on paper is better than Southampton's last year, I mean most of this squad was part of the team that won us the league title two years ago! Right now, Puel is on track to finish in 8th spot again, on a series of highly disappointing results, with a team unable to find the net more than once on a regular basis, and that on 46 points once more! It's both bemusing and bewildering, but we are on course to finish on 46 points this season, just like Puel did with Southampton! Groundhog Day. What has our squad learnt from that debacle and what has Puel taken out of it?

 

It's a reoccurring theme amongst people overly patient with Puel, claiming he's managed us to 8th place as if it's some sort of special achievement or as if we've just got there a week ago, after weeks or months of achieving surprisingly good results, fighting our way up the table.

The reality reads different: Four wins out of the last 17, no home win since the end of January. Whatever positive aspects there were under Puel at the start of his tenure with five wins out of this first eight matches, it's pretty much all gone now.

May I remind you that we've been clinging on to this sensational 8th spot for weeks now, whilst at least two teams below us are catching up fast?

 

I'm sorry, but the season's not over yet! All the signs point to a finish in between 10th and 12th spot. If we get more than three points out of the last four matches, we'll have been incredibly lucky.

 

But of course, the people quick to excuse the manager will then point to the fact that "he managed us to 10th/11th/12th spot" and that we should be grateful to have such a great manager at our disposal.

 

He failed to connect at Southampton (quoting The Guardian, and he continues to connect here. Mention his previous success and the glorious relationship with and nurturing of younger players as much as you want to, but that was years, if not a decade ago and in his native France.

So you’re saying he did a great job at Southampton last year to finish 8th? With a crap squad?

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, Reg Vardy said:

Mate started in 1965....8th is real progress....what gets me is the line, we have got all that money, and we have signed crap players.....every club in the Premier league has got more money, the platform we compete in is the same as it always was, finance is at a higher level.

Ieanacho, Diabate, Maguire, all look the part to my untrainedeye, but what do I know?

i also believe the criticism wouldn’t be there if we were 7th.....funny old game

That's great.

Unfortunately, we've been playing rather terribly for months now, and are looking at losing out even on 8th spot.

 

And we're not in 7th place right now and never looked like we even cared (even when we were above Burnley for a short while).

The funny old conjecture game, trying to shift the blame away from the manager. A manager who is serving the fans exactly the same quality of football he did a year ago at Southampton.

If that's progress, please enlighten me.

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, Reg Vardy said:

So you’re saying he did a great job at Southampton last year to finish 8th? With a crap squad?

I'm saying that finishing 8th with Southampton after a series of really bad results at the end of last season is hardly a sign of quality. They were ultimately clinging onto 8th spot for weeks by sheer luck, simply because the teams behind them were even worse than the Saints.

 

Final position in the table doesn't tell the full story.

 

I just find it somewhat funny that people in defense of Puel continue to use an 8th spot finish as their sole argument. It's getting rather desperate now.

[Stan]

How many times in our history have we finished in the top 10, let alone 8th or above?

 

Regardless of this "all the other teams are crap" nonsense, I'd be content with that, coupled with a manager building for the long-term.

[Reg Vardy]

7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I'm saying that finishing 8th with Southampton after a series of really bad results at the end of last season is hardly a sign of quality. They were ultimately clinging onto 8th spot for weeks by sheer luck, simply because the teams behind them were even worse than the Saints.

 

Final position in the table doesn't tell the full story.

 

I just find it somewhat funny that people in defense of Puel continue to use an 8th spot finish as their sole argument. It's getting rather desperate now.

I think you’ll find that where you finish inthe table is the full story...see two seasons back for full details....

[CosbehFox]

8 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I'm saying that finishing 8th with Southampton after a series of really bad results at the end of last season is hardly a sign of quality. They were ultimately clinging onto 8th spot for weeks by sheer luck, simply because the teams behind them were even worse than the Saints.

 

Final position in the table doesn't tell the full story.

 

I just find it somewhat funny that people in defense of Puel continue to use an 8th spot finish as their sole argument. It's getting rather desperate now.

The final position is what you are rewarded on in prize money and the history books. The gap which you cite has more to do with the domination of the Premier League by six teams. 

 

Its not the sole argument either - it’s what is focused here. I’ve already previously explained Puel’s impressive record the season previous at Nice. 

[MC Prussian]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

How many times in our history have we finished in the top 10, let alone 8th or above?

 

Regardless of this "all the other teams are crap" nonsense, I'd be content with that, coupled with a manager building for the long-term.

Including the old First Division results, about 15 times if I'm not mistaken.

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The final position is what you are rewarded on in prize money and the history books. The gap which you cite has more to do with the domination of the Premier League by six teams. 

 

Its not the sole argument either - it’s what is focused here. I’ve already previously explained Puel’s impressive record the season previous at Nice. 

In a different league, in a different country, in his native France.

[MC Prussian]

4 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said:

I think you’ll find that where you finish inthe table is the full story...see two seasons back for full details....

Winning the title was a freak accident, a wonderful exception to the usual Premier League season.

It was a marvelous, joyous occasion and in order to explain it in more detail, you have to look at what made us so successful.

 

But hey, great to use our freak title season against Puel's Southampton, where they petered out the season in negative style.

 

Like I said, final position doesn't tell the full story.

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

In a different league, in a different country, in his native France.

And we have fans suggesting replacement managers from abroad, including yourself saying Lucien Favre would be a good appointment. 

[MC Prussian]

5 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

And we have fans suggesting replacement managers from abroad, including yourself saying Lucien Favre would be a good appointment. 

No, I'm saying that Puel has had his success in his native of France, and the biggest success years, if not decades ago.

 

Favre is Swiss and has now managed successfully in Switzerland, Germany and France.

At no point have I said he'd be a good appointment, btw. I merely said he's a good manager - and one that proves that you can be successful abroad in a bigger league than your native one.

Edited 21 April 2018 by MC Prussian

[CosbehFox]

17 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

No, I'm saying that Puel has had his success in his native of France, and the biggest success years, if not decades ago.

 

Favre is Swiss and has now managed successfully in Switzerland, Germany and France.

At no point have I said he'd be a good appointment, btw. I merely said he's a good manager - and one that proves that you can be successful abroad in a bigger league than your native one.

Hmmm successful in countries which share languages with Switzerland. 

[Stan]

22 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Including the old First Division results, about 15 times if I'm not mistaken.

So comfortably in the top 10% of our historical league finishes. 

 

We should not be firing managers for this.