Stadium Expansion - More Info

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, City1884 said:

This is the problem with Safe standing currently.

Apart from a couple of lower league clubs where it is increasing their profile by getting media attention by being the “first” to install it, (and possibly increasing their attendances? Maybe? Depending on the club involved?) there is no financial benefit to the big clubs to do it.

 

Any business (and let’s not be blind to the fact football is just a business now), wants to see financial returns on financial outlay.

 

Installing rails seats costs money, while no extra income comes back because it doesn’t increase capacity.

 

Will attendances decline without Rail seating? / improve with it? No.

 

There is literally no return on investment.

 

 

 

 

 

It's baby steps though. Abroad the ratio allowed is 1.6 people to every safe standing spot, whereas initially here it's 1 to 1. Clubs see that long-term they'll be able to push the idea of increasing the ratio when the relevant bodies are satisfied that it is safe, which it is.

 

Also, let's not forget this is not just about financial return. Clubs have a responsibility to ensure their fans are watching the game safely in a manner of their choosing. How far a little bit of goodwill can go by implementing technology which will benefit sitters and standers alike shouldn't be underestimated, regardless of the financial bottom line.

Edited 6 July 2018 by Voll Blau

[FoxyPalace.com]

The Stadium is owned by King Power Holdings, this is separate from the club.

 

King Power will be paying for the remodel of the stadium not Leicester City.

 

I can only see something very spectacular with a much larger capacity.

 

Would not surprise me to see a complete new stadium.

 

 

 

 

[City1884]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

It's baby steps though. Abroad the ratio allowed is 1.6 people to every safe standing spot, whereas initially here it's 1 to 1. Club see that long-term they'll be able to push the idea of increasing the ratio when the relevant bodies are satisfied that it is safe, which it is.

 

Also, let's not forget this is not just about financial return. Clubs have a responsibility to ensure their fans are watching the game safely in a manner of their choosing. How far a little bit of goodwill can go by implementing technology which will benefit sitters and standers alike shouldn't be underestimated, regardless of the financial bottom line.

I honestly don’t see safe standing in the uk every increasing past a ratio of 1:1, given past events.

 

The only way that safe standing will be passed in the uk is if every ticket sold still has a designated space in the stand, (row and seat number).

Abroad, if higher ratios are used, i’m Assuming (correct me if I’m wrong, because I may be) that a set number of tickets for the whole block are issued, and then people just go and stand anywhere in their designated block?

 

Given historical events in the uk, there is zero chance that this would ever get passed, as you could get parts of the blocks empty and parts overcrowded?

 

I think 1:1 ratio is the key factor currently making safe standing a remotely viable consideration in the uk, and I don’t ever see that changing.

 

[Voll Blau]

2 hours ago, City1884 said:

I honestly don’t see safe standing in the uk every increasing past a ratio of 1:1, given past events.

 

The only way that safe standing will be passed in the uk is if every ticket sold still has a designated space in the stand, (row and seat number).

Abroad, if higher ratios are used, i’m Assuming (correct me if I’m wrong, because I may be) that a set number of tickets for the whole block are issued, and then people just go and stand anywhere in their designated block?

 

Given historical events in the uk, there is zero chance that this would ever get passed, as you could get parts of the blocks empty and parts overcrowded?

 

I think 1:1 ratio is the key factor currently making safe standing a remotely viable consideration in the uk, and I don’t ever see that changing.

 

Your scepticism is, of course, well founded. That said, it's only in the very recent past that people were dismissing the idea of safe standing areas being implemented full stop. Now they're actually being put in place, and in one case (Celtic) have been working well for a number of years. Once it becomes commonplace, which I'm confident it will, there's no reason why clubs wouldn't lobby to allow more people into such areas - especially as demand is bound to grow.

 

Like I say though, this is all very long-term thinking. 1:1 is bound to be the short to medium-term ratio because the technology is almost completely alien in this country at the moment, and the authorities are obviously cautious. I don't think either clubs or campaigners would want to push their luck by suggesting otherwise right now, and they'd be foolish to do so.

Edited 6 July 2018 by Voll Blau

[Nickfosse]

13 minutes ago, FoxyPalace.com said:

The Stadium is owned by King Power Holdings, this is separate from the club.

 

King Power will be paying for the remodel of the stadium not Leicester City.

 

I can only see something very spectacular with a much larger capacity.

 

Would not surprise me to see a complete new stadium.

 

 

 

 

Thank you, that’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Does that apply to the training ground as well?

[breadandcheese]

49 minutes ago, City1884 said:

I honestly don’t see safe standing in the uk every increasing past a ratio of 1:1, given past events.

 

The only way that safe standing will be passed in the uk is if every ticket sold still has a designated space in the stand, (row and seat number).

Abroad, if higher ratios are used, i’m Assuming (correct me if I’m wrong, because I may be) that a set number of tickets for the whole block are issued, and then people just go and stand anywhere in their designated block?

 

Given historical events in the uk, there is zero chance that this would ever get passed, as you could get parts of the blocks empty and parts overcrowded?

 

I think 1:1 ratio is the key factor currently making safe standing a remotely viable consideration in the uk, and I don’t ever see that changing.

 

I think you're probably right, but is there not wriggle room with the width of the seats?  Narrower seats, mean more to a row, so presumably, for a safe standing area, you could make each designated space smaller to increase the capacity of the section.

 

 

[davieG]

1 minute ago, breadandcheese said:

I think you're probably right, but is there not wriggle room with the width of the seats?  Narrower seats, mean more to a row, so presumably, for a safe standing area, you could make each designated space smaller to increase the capacity of the section.

 

 

We need the adoption of safe standing to be worldwide as in FIFA so that safe standing can be just that with no seat option then you could conceivably get more in and make it cheaper.

[City1884]

13 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

I think you're probably right, but is there not wriggle room with the width of the seats?  Narrower seats, mean more to a row, so presumably, for a safe standing area, you could make each designated space smaller to increase the capacity of the section.

 

 

Highly unlikely in my opinion, if anything you may get less rail seats to a row, as each seat has to have downward metal poles at each side of it so that the seat can swing down.

At most I would imagine you’d have the same amount of seats but the seats themselves would actually be narrower anyway?

[City1884]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Your scepticism is, of course, well founded. That said, it's only in the very recent past that people were dismissing the idea of safe standing areas being implemented full stop. Now they're actually being put in place, and in one case (Celtic) have been working well for a number of years. Once it becomes commonplace, which I'm confident it will, there's no reason why clubs wouldn't lobby to allow more people into such areas - especially as demand is bound to grow.

 

Like I say though, this is all very long-term thinking. 1:1 is bound to be the short to medium-term ratio because the technology is almost completely alien in this country at the moment, and the authorities are obviously cautious. I don't think either clubs or campaigners would want to push their luck by suggesting otherwise right now, and they'd be foolish to do so.

 

I totally understand where you are coming from, and eventually in years to come, if safe standing gets passed initially, i’m Sure clubs will then try and push forward with the ratio to increase capacity and ticket sales and income.

 

If they are looking at it that way now though, that’s a very long term vision, with huge question marks over it.

I doubt any business (club) would be willing to invest in replacing seats with rail seating in the hope that this will eventually come to financial fruition.

 

Most business want to see full return on their investment within 2-3 years, and there is simply no way that will happen will rail seats as replacements for current seats.

 

I personally think that our most realistic hope of seeing safe standing at King Power stadium is if it’s incorporated into a stadium expansion, where an increase in capacity offsets any costs.

 

Anyone know if we are allowed to install rail seats into our new stand extention even if legislation isn’t yet passed? And until legislation is passed / denied, just use them as seats, not standing??

 

 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, City1884 said:

I totally understand where you are coming from, and eventually in years to come, if safe standing gets passed initially, i’m Sure clubs will then try and push forward with the ratio to increase capacity and ticket sales and income.

 

If they are looking at it that way now though, that’s a very long term vision, with huge question marks over it.

I doubt any business (club) would be willing to invest in replacing seats with rail seating in the hope that this will eventually come to financial fruition.

 

Most business want to see full return on their investment within 2-3 years, and there is simply no way that will happen will rail seats as replacements for current seats.

 

I personally think that our most realistic hope of seeing safe standing at King Power stadium is if it’s incorporated into a stadium expansion, where an increase in capacity offsets any costs.

 

Anyone know if we are allowed to install rail seats into our new stand extention even if legislation isn’t yet passed? And until legislation is passed / denied, just use them as seats, not standing??

 

 

Completely agree, it's a great chance for the club to show some long-term commitment to helping create a good atmosphere in the ground.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think they can be locked down as seats at present - Bristol City have them installed for rugby matches and they're just covered over (although, ironically, I've seen stewards stood there!). Though obviously that may be at the discretion of the local Safety Advisory Group, rather than a legal issue.

 

Shrewsbury were clearly willing to install them when they were looking good for promotion despite various legal obstacles they may have faced, so they must have been confident of winning any challenge over the legality of the area.

[leicesterseddon]

I'd be perfectly happy with a basic expansion of one stand. 

 

It's all this talk of "fan experiences" and "a destination" that worries me. 

 

I wouldn't have a problem with more places to get food, but apart from that what do you really need? 

 

It's a football ground, not a branch of Center Parcs.  

[davieG]

1 hour ago, City1884 said:

I totally understand where you are coming from, and eventually in years to come, if safe standing gets passed initially, i’m Sure clubs will then try and push forward with the ratio to increase capacity and ticket sales and income.

 

If they are looking at it that way now though, that’s a very long term vision, with huge question marks over it.

I doubt any business (club) would be willing to invest in replacing seats with rail seating in the hope that this will eventually come to financial fruition.

 

Most business want to see full return on their investment within 2-3 years, and there is simply no way that will happen will rail seats as replacements for current seats.

 

I personally think that our most realistic hope of seeing safe standing at King Power stadium is if it’s incorporated into a stadium expansion, where an increase in capacity offsets any costs.

 

Anyone know if we are allowed to install rail seats into our new stand extention even if legislation isn’t yet passed? And until legislation is passed / denied, just use them as seats, not standing??

 

 

King Power have spent plenty of money changing aspects of the stadium that will not provide a financial return eg the renaming or rather de-naming of the kiosks, fearless stickers ever where plus murals, tvs in the concourse, clappers, t-shirts, scarves, donuts and beer these were presumably done to increase customer satisfaction  then one wonders how significant is the financial return from pasting King Power all over the stadium at the expense of nods to our history. 

 

[ealingfox]

I see only 5 out of 17 voted in favour of safe standing at the May FCC meeting. Very disappointing. Think we just have to accept that we are going to be latecomers to this, we just have too many moaners and old people at our games.

 

And whoever complained to the club staff that 'some people at games are drunk' you can **** right off.

[davieG]

1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

I see only 5 out of 17 voted in favour of safe standing at the May FCC meeting. Very disappointing. Think we just have to accept that we are going to be latecomers to this, we just have too many moaners and old people at our games.

 

And whoever complained to the club staff that 'some people at games are drunk' you can **** right off.

Those that want to stand should ensure they're part of the FCC when safe standing is on the agenda.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Those that want to stand should ensure they're part of the FCC when safe standing is on the agenda.

I agree, but it's easier said than done given the way the FCC panel is composed.

[ealingfox]

36 minutes ago, davieG said:

Those that want to stand should ensure they're part of the FCC when safe standing is on the agenda.

 

Those who want to sit should be unselfish enough to realise their support for safe standing will in no way impact on their ability to sit at games, but the same can't be said for the reverse.

[stripeyfox]

6 hours ago, winchesterton said:

i stand while listening to the match at home on radio. not sure if that counts. nobody asked me.

Selfish git. Don't you know other people in the house can't see the radio if you stand up?

 

[City1884]

54 minutes ago, davieG said:

King Power have spent plenty of money changing aspects of the stadium that will not provide a financial return eg the renaming or rather de-naming of the kiosks, fearless stickers ever where plus murals, tvs in the concourse, clappers, t-shirts, scarves, donuts and beer these were presumably done to increase customer satisfaction  then one wonders how significant is the financial return from pasting King Power all over the stadium at the expense of nods to our history. 

 

Although I accept what you are saying, those things cost in the lower thousands of pounds, ripping out even just 1500 seats and installing rail seating would cost significantly more.

 

30,000 pints at cost (£1-£1.50 a pint) = maybe £30,000 (not all fans are eligible)

 

you’d probably be lucky to get 50 rail seats installed for that.

 

Not to mention the pints raise customer satisfaction for maybe 20,000 of the stadiums capacity (60% ish), the rail seats would raise satisfaction for maybe around 1500 fans? (5%)

 

I’m all for rail seats and safe standing as a fan who would use them, but with my business head on, it’s hard to create a solid business case.

[stripeyfox]

1 hour ago, leicesterseddon said:

I'd be perfectly happy with a basic expansion of one stand. 

 

It's all this talk of "fan experiences" and "a destination" that worries me. 

 

I wouldn't have a problem with more places to get food, but apart from that what do you really need? 

 

It's a football ground, not a branch of Center Parcs.  

You end up with New White Hart Lane with "the largest club shop in Europe", "the longest bar in the World", artisan cheese stands and procescco bars. Oh, and season tickets that cost £ 1500!
 

 

[leicesterseddon]

6 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

You end up with New White Hart Lane with "the largest club shop in Europe", "the longest bar in the World", artisan cheese stands and procescco bars. Oh, and season tickets that cost £ 1500!
 

 

 

Exactly! Although to be fair I think a lot of that is due to the fact they are a London club. 

 

We'll end up with a giant bouncy castle and a Fanata Fountain. 

[davieG]

1 hour ago, City1884 said:

Although I accept what you are saying, those things cost in the lower thousands of pounds, ripping out even just 1500 seats and installing rail seating would cost significantly more.

 

30,000 pints at cost (£1-£1.50 a pint) = maybe £30,000 (not all fans are eligible)

 

you’d probably be lucky to get 50 rail seats installed for that.

 

Not to mention the pints raise customer satisfaction for maybe 20,000 of the stadiums capacity (60% ish), the rail seats would raise satisfaction for maybe around 1500 fans? (5%)

 

I’m all for rail seats and safe standing as a fan who would use them, but with my business head on, it’s hard to create a solid business case.

The point of my post was to show they do plenty of things that provide no direct financial return and they were just a few examples, fitting rail seats would be a one off cost whereas those I've mentioned are repeated and add up so was a bit ingenuous to just pick one with one off cost to demonstrate your point. Others I could add are the big screens certainly not cheap and need regularly upgrading.

 

Also I believe there are future plans to increase the size of the kop to fit safe standing at that time would be significant lower especially as they're likely to need to replace the seats at some point.

 

With my business head on   it seems more like an excuse/diversionary action rather than a cost.

 

I'm not convinced the owners are that keen on standing as it could be seen to lower the 'class'  (best word I can think of at this time) level of the stadium which seems to be part of their culture.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

4 hours ago, City1884 said:

Most business want to see full return on their investment within 2-3 years, and there is simply no way that will happen will rail seats as replacements for current seats.

There have been improvements recently to the ground which haven't provided a financial return though, the new scoreboards, the treatment of the seats to make them dark blue again, the murals in the concourse etc. 

 

Things might change as well with an expansion, if we go to high 40Ks capacity, we might not sell out every game. People might come and go in the standing area that wouldn't come if they had to sit down. 

 

The cost is pretty small in the grand scheme of things anyway.

[Mullet1]

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/foxes-to-extend-king-power

[lcfc278]

1 hour ago, Mullet1 said:

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/foxes-to-extend-king-power

A new £80 training base eh? Not bad at all!

[dayday]

Just had a email from the club, inviting a selected number of season ticket holders on the 24th July to discuss the stadium expansion, facilities etc, anybody from here thinking of going?