Killed By My Debt

[Soar Fox]

Did anyone watch it on BBC one tonight? Heartbreaking stuff which started from a couple of driving offences. 

 

Camden Council, Newlyn & CitySprint have got a lot to answer for. 

[ozleicester]

Didnt see this, but heartbreaking how many people are trapped by debt slavery.

 

[Guest Sharpe's Fox]

 

[grobyfox1990]

Awful, tough and very difficult viewing. Actually found this too hard to watch at points. The point that resonated with me most was how these debt collection agencies and other such firms bamboozle the common layman into a state of panic through words in capital letters and red font, difficult to understand language and a tone of 'you're just stupid if you don't understand what i'm saying so pay me now'

 

All this put together means the person on the other end feels like they have no choice but to pay up (even when they should appeal or fight the fine) or in the young lads case, do something much worse.

[samlcfc]

Thanks for the heads up, sounds like a worthwhile watch.

 

Such a desperately sad topic and I'm certain that countless people find themselves in similar situations all the time. Its notoriously difficult to effectively manage financial situations and for some people, the added stress of overbearing debt is more than they can even handle mentally.

 

It's awful to think that people are often ruined by financial circumstances which could be constructively navigated by someone with a little practical knowledge in such matters. It's even more depressing to realise that the folks most likely to find themselves in these positions, are those who are least likely to have the required knowledge or access to it.

 

This isn't to put the blame on those people at all. Many companies including the collection agencies have a terrible part to play in most of these scenarios playing out. 

 

My wife's mum for example, has been disabled her entire life and unfortunately left in a vulnerable position in this respect. My wife and I went through all her services and finances the other year, phoning innumerable people and negotiating her plans and payments. Ended up saving her what will likely add up to hundreds, if not thousands of pounds. So many bastard vultures that thrive off of business they do with vulnerable people, that others could contest or know never to accept in the first place.

 

I've never been in a bad position, but I've disputed internet bills, energy bills, unjust car park fines over the past few years that would have cost me hundreds. They did end up costing me hours of my personal time. I'd consider myself mentally stable, but I still required the support of my wife to push through with some of the fights. I could've just paid them in my position, but it's the principal of the matter. I can certainly see what they must do to those who don't know how to fight them, haven't got the support, or the time, or the mental fortitude to keep going against what often appears to be an unbeatable system. Then when they can't keep it up any more and haven't got the money to pay or don't know how to go about getting the support to pay, they can end up like this poor guy.

 

 

Edited 19 July 2018 by samlcfc

[Soar Fox]

After reading the director of the dramas tweets it turns out that the bailiffs had know right to seize his bike as it was on finance & not in his name. Unfortunately the lad didn’t know his rights.

[samlcfc]

1 hour ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

After reading the director of the dramas tweets it turns out that the bailiffs had know right to seize his bike as it was on finance & not in his name. Unfortunately the lad didn’t know his rights.

 

Would not surprise me if they acted unlawfully at all, and some people will probably claim the programs resulting issues wouldn't happen if they had acted lawfully.

 

I'm willing to bet however, that the working environment of these companies gives their employees an irresponsible or laissez-faire attitude to the targets rights in their day to day job. The emphasis is going to be on getting a result, and in this poor lads case, a claiming of his assets.

 

Overall, their mistakes are probably rarely called up by an unwitting victim. People could argue that it all works out in the end usually, but most people probably don't realise what's being done to them and it doesn't matter if the poor victim gives up on life before the companies done grinding them through the machine.

 

See it in everything. CEO's don't condone bad treatment of staff, but don't put the emphasis on ending it. Utilities companies should have done a,b,c before wrongly charging hundreds on bills, but don't train competent staff to deal with any issues raised.

 

An increase in profits at the end of it all, and to hell with the poor buggers that are stepped on to achieve it. There are plenty more of them about.

Edited 19 July 2018 by samlcfc

[VLC86]

Will probably watch this tonight but sounds grim and makes you realise how lucky you are sometimes. Could genuinely happen to anyone.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Proper difficult to watch, especially when the lad wanted to actively work to pay off his debts but physically couldn't as the weather got colder and his asthma played up. To make about 20/30 quid a week after expenses is absurd.

[leicsmac]

Really, really difficult to watch as others have said.

 

I know it probably isn't the case legally, but IMO Newlyn, in particular, are at least partly culpable for his death.

[Milo]

10 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

 

Top bloke - Labour could do with him now

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Glasgow is the hell hole of debt and misery, with loan sharks piling 100s of %. People just never get out of it, and if they fail to pay, end up with broken limbs, and a good kicking.. Disgusting.

[stix]

23 hours ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

After reading the director of the dramas tweets it turns out that the bailiffs had know right to seize his bike as it was on finance & not in his name. Unfortunately the lad didn’t know his rights.

 

Thats exactly what I thought as I was watching. The fact that the program was made by reconstructing from actual footage on the bailiffs body cam, you would think the family would definitely have a case against the debt agency? The actions of the bailiff and his employers absolutely need to take some responsibility for this poor lad taking his own life. 

[Raj]

Tragic programme.

 

[The Syrup]

Bailiffs can't remove stuff needed for your job, yet they go after his bike, probably the lads only asset and he's a motorbike courier. Disgraceful stuff that Newlyn can get away with saying they acted within the law. 

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/what-bailiffs-can-take/check-what-bailiffs-can-take/

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I didn't think it was so much the bailiff as the company that were the proper villains, really. Don't bailiffs get paid per x amount recovered? 

 

Don't get me wrong, clearly a bit of a bad'un - but the proper tossers were the debt recovery company fobbing him off when Rogers suggested a payment plan, and CitySprint.

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

Bailiffs can't remove stuff needed for your job, yet they go after his bike, probably the lads only asset and he's a motorbike courier. Disgraceful stuff that Newlyn can get away with saying they acted within the law. 

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/what-bailiffs-can-take/check-what-bailiffs-can-take/

Guess they're relying on being able to tie it up so much in court that people don't bother with calling them out on such acts.

[Rob1742]

I didn’t see the programme, but sympathies depend on the individual case.

 

I had a couple rent a house off me, do a runner and leave a mess. The costs involved in changing the locks, cleaning and removing rubbish left me with little sympathy and I am spending money with debt collectors to get my money back. 

 

I have another couple struggling to pay their monthly rent. Again I have little sympathy. £1700  a month is the figure and they are behind and not looking to get back on track.

 

Living way beyond their means and despite me suggesting it would be better they found a more affordable option, and me letting them end the agreement early, they prefer not to pay and make excuses rather than make the right decisions for the family. 

 

In both situations I am / will send the debt collectors in and I have a clear consiense. 

 

It it is not me being hard or unsympathetic. It is them deciding to take from me, not engage when they are in trouble and not bothering about me whatsoever.

 

If in both instances they would have been reasonable people, I would have done everything I could to help them, including allowing them not to pay some rent and get themselves sorted. But in both situations it has been about them, and their bad decisions.

 

In both cases I have engaged early and tried to help. 

 

So there are two sides to every story, and if they had tried to share theirs the story would be different. But they have made the decision to take from me, not engage so when they continue to get a knock on the door, it’s not my problem 

[Soar Fox]

10 hours ago, Rob1742 said:

I didn’t see the programme, but sympathies depend on the individual case.

 

I had a couple rent a house off me, do a runner and leave a mess. The costs involved in changing the locks, cleaning and removing rubbish left me with little sympathy and I am spending money with debt collectors to get my money back. 

 

I have another couple struggling to pay their monthly rent. Again I have little sympathy. £1700  a month is the figure and they are behind and not looking to get back on track.

 

Living way beyond their means and despite me suggesting it would be better they found a more affordable option, and me letting them end the agreement early, they prefer not to pay and make excuses rather than make the right decisions for the family. 

 

In both situations I am / will send the debt collectors in and I have a clear consiense. 

 

It it is not me being hard or unsympathetic. It is them deciding to take from me, not engage when they are in trouble and not bothering about me whatsoever.

 

If in both instances they would have been reasonable people, I would have done everything I could to help them, including allowing them not to pay some rent and get themselves sorted. But in both situations it has been about them, and their bad decisions.

 

In both cases I have engaged early and tried to help. 

 

So there are two sides to every story, and if they had tried to share theirs the story would be different. But they have made the decision to take from me, not engage so when they continue to get a knock on the door, it’s not my problem 

£1700 a month, jheeze what is it a mansion in London. 

[leicsmac]

10 hours ago, Rob1742 said:

I didn’t see the programme, but sympathies depend on the individual case.

 

I had a couple rent a house off me, do a runner and leave a mess. The costs involved in changing the locks, cleaning and removing rubbish left me with little sympathy and I am spending money with debt collectors to get my money back. 

 

I have another couple struggling to pay their monthly rent. Again I have little sympathy. £1700  a month is the figure and they are behind and not looking to get back on track.

 

Living way beyond their means and despite me suggesting it would be better they found a more affordable option, and me letting them end the agreement early, they prefer not to pay and make excuses rather than make the right decisions for the family. 

 

In both situations I am / will send the debt collectors in and I have a clear consiense. 

 

It it is not me being hard or unsympathetic. It is them deciding to take from me, not engage when they are in trouble and not bothering about me whatsoever.

 

If in both instances they would have been reasonable people, I would have done everything I could to help them, including allowing them not to pay some rent and get themselves sorted. But in both situations it has been about them, and their bad decisions.

 

In both cases I have engaged early and tried to help. 

 

So there are two sides to every story, and if they had tried to share theirs the story would be different. But they have made the decision to take from me, not engage so when they continue to get a knock on the door, it’s not my problem 

As you say, every case is different and quite frankly apples are being compared to oranges here.

 

I'd suggest a watch of the program - it's compelling if sometimes difficult and depressing viewing.

[Samilktray]

1700 a month is extortionate what on earth 

[Suzie the Fox]

I watched it and felt very sad afterwards. The guy in the show had no intention of ripping anyone off and in fact was being ripped off by his employers. There is no comparison to the situation that @Rob1742was left in. 

 

Sadly this seems to be happening more and more, i understand he should have read his handbook that he was given before agreeing to the terms of the employment, but if we are honest how many young people do, especially when they are on a buzz thinking they have found a job that really suits their circumstances. 

 

As others have said the baliff could not have lawfully removed the vehicle anyway, since it was on finance and thus belonged to the finance company.

 

Very sad documentary. 

[grobyfox1990]

On 19/07/2018 at 08:35, samlcfc said:

Thanks for the heads up, sounds like a worthwhile watch.

 

Such a desperately sad topic and I'm certain that countless people find themselves in similar situations all the time. Its notoriously difficult to effectively manage financial situations and for some people, the added stress of overbearing debt is more than they can even handle mentally.

 

It's awful to think that people are often ruined by financial circumstances which could be constructively navigated by someone with a little practical knowledge in such matters. It's even more depressing to realise that the folks most likely to find themselves in these positions, are those who are least likely to have the required knowledge or access to it.

 

This isn't to put the blame on those people at all. Many companies including the collection agencies have a terrible part to play in most of these scenarios playing out. 

 

My wife's mum for example, has been disabled her entire life and unfortunately left in a vulnerable position in this respect. My wife and I went through all her services and finances the other year, phoning innumerable people and negotiating her plans and payments. Ended up saving her what will likely add up to hundreds, if not thousands of pounds. So many bastard vultures that thrive off of business they do with vulnerable people, that others could contest or know never to accept in the first place.

 

I've never been in a bad position, but I've disputed internet bills, energy bills, unjust car park fines over the past few years that would have cost me hundreds. They did end up costing me hours of my personal time. I'd consider myself mentally stable, but I still required the support of my wife to push through with some of the fights. I could've just paid them in my position, but it's the principal of the matter. I can certainly see what they must do to those who don't know how to fight them, haven't got the support, or the time, or the mental fortitude to keep going against what often appears to be an unbeatable system. Then when they can't keep it up any more and haven't got the money to pay or don't know how to go about getting the support to pay, they can end up like this poor guy.

 

 

 

Bang on.

 

You have to have iron will, the persistence of Gandhi, the persuasive powers of Tony Blair and be clued up to your eyeballs to get a fair deal from any corporate in this hideously corrupt country. I've just come off the back of a 2-year dispute with my energy company in which time they have sent debt collectors to my door, made numerous abusive phone calls, intimidated, threatened, cajoled and tried every other tactic under the sun to get me to back down. FOR TWO YEARS. Most people would've given up the fight and just paid them off (no blame to such people) even whilst knowing you are right. I have enlisted the help of my MP, citizens advice bureau and the ombudsman (all useless, by the way) to finally prove I am right and get all my money back.

 

And what next? They'll find some other poor fool to go after now I've gone away.