Guest Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 The Golden days of education are long past throughout Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 13 March 2019 Author Share Posted 13 March 2019 Just now, Innovindil said: I'm thankful every day that my parents weren't feeble enough to require a cane to teach me discipline. You were obviously a good boy then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 Just now, yorkie1999 said: You were obviously a good boy then. Do you really think the cane had the desired effect? I was hit by hand, cane and belt at home, at school and even in other places. I don't particularly think it had a negative effect on me but neither do I see any positive effects. It just "was like that". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: You were obviously a good boy then. Or shockingly, they were good parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 13 March 2019 Author Share Posted 13 March 2019 Just now, FIF said: Do you really think the cane had the desired effect? I was hit by hand, cane and belt at home, at school and even in other places. I don't particularly think it had a negative effect on me but neither do I see any positive effects. It just "was like that". I had the cane once at school for messing about, walked in the heads office and there was a spirit level on the table, he asked me if i knew how to check it was right, i didn't and he then gave me a ten minute lecture about spirit levels followed by 3 wacks on each hand. Two things i learnt, one, how to make sure a spirit level is right and, two, the importance of not getting caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 (edited) I was caned a couple of times at school. No big deal. Fact is that it was rarely used. Didn’t need to be as the deterrent was sufficient. Getting called to the Heads office was something generally feared. Kids have been told for too long how wonderful they are and how they can get away with pretty much anything with no consequences. The results are pretty obvious. The whole job of a teenager is to push boundaries. This is generally a good thing as it tests societies rules and allows out of date ones to be discarded. However it is important for society to push back or youngsters (not all obviously) will get totally out of control. Edited 13 March 2019 by WigstonWanderer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 13 March 2019 Author Share Posted 13 March 2019 6 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Or shockingly, they were good parents. Not everyone is as lucky as you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 13 March 2019 Author Share Posted 13 March 2019 1 minute ago, WigstonWanderer said: I was caned a couple of times at school. No big deal. Fact is that it was rarely used. Didn’t need to be as the deterrent was sufficient. Getting called to the Heads office was something generally feared. Kids have been told for too long how wonderful they are and how they can get away with pretty much anything with no consequences. The results are pretty obvious. The american dream, until the realisation sets in that this world is a lot harder than it's made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 19 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Or shockingly, they were good parents. My parents weren't bad, just people of their time and yet I was hit with a hand, a slipper, a shoe, a cane, a belt - probably other things too - mostly on the bottom. They certainly loved me and wanted the best for me but this was how things were back in the day. As I said I was also hit using some of these implements by "authority" figures outside the home, not only at school. I don't consider myself as a "bad" boy and I consider myself as a respectable and "good" citizen. I don't think you'll find many working class boys from the 60's and earlier who were never hit as correction/punishment and if you can the chances were they were hit by other kids. I'd like to say I never hit my children but I know that a couple of times I gave one of my sons a slap on the leg. We now live in a different era where I'm glad to see that regular "correction" of this kind exists a lot less but we also have seen a rise of problems that maybe were corrected in this way in the past. I'd also like to say that the emotional correction/blackmail that is a lot more prevalent today can be just as harmful (possibly more so) than a short, sharp slap. I do hope that today's parents don't think they "found" the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 43 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: Not everyone is as lucky as you though. It really is a sad state of affairs when having good parents who don't require physical abuse to teach is considered lucky rather than the expected norm. Let's take the easy way of raising kids, let them play fortnite all day and when they struggle outside of it just give em a good smack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 3 hours ago, Buce said: No chance whatsoever, mate. Stop shitting on my dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 On the subject of schools and schooling, about 50 arrests have been made in the US following accusations of several well-known figures cheating the education system by bribing officials to let their children attend college/university. Among the accused are actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin: https://pagesix.com/2019/03/12/felicity-huffman-in-custody-over-college-admissions-scandal/ Quote More than 40 people have been indicted in the scheme that allegedly involved students gaining entrance to schools including Georgetown, Stanford, Wake Forest University, UCLA and Yale as recruited athletes — regardless of their athletic ability — or on inflated college entrance exam test scores. Some deep-pocketed parents paid as much as $6.5 million — while most plunked down between $250,000 and $400,000. https://nypost.com/2019/03/12/lori-loughlin-felicity-huffman-busted-in-college-admissions-cheating-scandal/?_ga=2.24301630.565547412.1552480636-395468640.1552480636 Insane abuse of financial privilege. In the end, you can also say it's a massive waste of money. Imagine what you could do with several hundred thousands of dollars instead for your kids to profit. Why not invest in a trust fund, for instance? Just... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 The government motion for debate is: That this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019; and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement. So, what are the amendments that have been tabled? The Independent Group amendments Amendment (d) states that "under no circumstances" should the UK leave without a deal, listing the alternatives as revocation of the UK's intention to leave, extension of the Article 50 period or a second referendum. Amendment (e) scraps the second half of the government motion, shortening it to: "that this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019" It has been tabled by the Independent Group, which is consists of eight former Labour MPs and three former Tories, who are all supporters of another EU referendum, and who quit their parties in protest at their Brexit policies. Plaid Cymru amendment Amendment (c) calls for an extension to the Article 50 leaving process to 2021, or until a future relationship is agreed. The amendment also requests a second referendum to take place, on whether or not the UK should leave with the agreed deal, or remain in the EU. Spelman/Dromey amendment The amendment (a) from Labour MP Jack Dromey and Conservative Caroline Spelman also changes the wording of the government motion to "this House rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship". Malthouse Compromise The 'Alternative Arrangements Working Group' is formed of Tory leavers and remainers working on the 'Malthouse Compromise' This amendment (f) sets out the process for a "managed no-deal". It requests: The government publish tariff schedules An extension of leaving to 22 May 2019 'Mutual standstill agreements' between the UK and EU until the end of 2021, including payments to the EU A unilateral guarantee of citizens' rights It is called the Malthouse compromise because it was put together by Conservative minister Kit Malthouse, but it has been tabled in the name of former Conservative minister Damian Green. It is supported by members of the Brexiteer European Research Group of Conservative MPs and former Remain supporters such as Mr Green and Nicky Morgan. Cancel Brexit amendment One final amendment - (b) has been tabled by former Tory Chancellor Ken Clarke, Labour's Keith Vaz and the SNP's Angus MacNeil. It simply calls for the revocation of Article 50 to cancel Brexit. SNP amendment Amendment (h), tabled by the SNP, calls for the UK to not leave the EU without a deal "under any circumstances", regardless of the exit date. It further gives MPs the option to revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit. Keep no-deal amendment Amendment (g) has been tabled by Tory Brexiteer Sir Edward Leigh. The amendment calls for the option of no-deal to be kept on the table during the government's continued negotiations with the EU. What happens next? The Speaker will select amendments at the beginning of the debate, due to start after the Chancellor unveils his spring statement. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47554167 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 4 hours ago, FIF said: We now live in a different era where I'm glad to see that regular "correction" of this kind exists a lot less but we also have seen a rise of problems that maybe were corrected in this way in the past. I'd also like to say that the emotional correction/blackmail that is a lot more prevalent today can be just as harmful (possibly more so) than a short, sharp slap. I do hope that today's parents don't think they "found" the answer Great post, mate. Emotional abuse is a lot worse than physical abuse (granted that it doesn't step over the line). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieTodger Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 Has TM ever actually had a good day as Prime-Minister? Why does she do it to herself? I'd actually hate to be her, it must be a nightmare. Just walk away and say I tried my best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 I'm in the younger generation here but I've been hit with a myriad of footwear, belts, sticks and even the chalkboard eraser (you put all of your fingers together like an Italian and you got hit with the solid part of the eraser). Had a teacher (very cool guy BTW) who used to hit us with 70-ish centimeter cylinder stick (think he got that piece from a broom stick), and I kid you not, that piece of wood had the power of lighting one hit and you lose any sort of feeling in your hand. Worst part about it? If you get more than 2 hits, one of your hands will have to be hit again, and all the numbness will turn into immense pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 1 hour ago, davieG said: The government motion for debate is: That this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019; and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement. So, what are the amendments that have been tabled? [...] Spelman/Dromey amendment The amendment (a) from Labour MP Jack Dromey and Conservative Caroline Spelman also changes the wording of the government motion to "this House rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship". Malthouse Compromise The 'Alternative Arrangements Working Group' is formed of Tory leavers and remainers working on the 'Malthouse Compromise' This amendment (f) sets out the process for a "managed no-deal". It requests: The government publish tariff schedules An extension of leaving to 22 May 2019 'Mutual standstill agreements' between the UK and EU until the end of 2021, including payments to the EU A unilateral guarantee of citizens' rights It is called the Malthouse compromise because it was put together by Conservative minister Kit Malthouse, but it has been tabled in the name of former Conservative minister Damian Green. It is supported by members of the Brexiteer European Research Group of Conservative MPs and former Remain supporters such as Mr Green and Nicky Morgan. [...] The Speaker will select amendments at the beginning of the debate, due to start after the Chancellor unveils his spring statement. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47554167 That BBC link now reckons that the Speaker has made his selection of amendments. Only May's original motion, Spelman/Dromey and the Shithouse Compromise will be up for voting, it seems. As I understand it, if passed, Spelman/Dromey would firm up the opposition to No Deal....but would still have no effect unless an alternative is approved. Is that right? Likewise, it seems clear that the EU will reject the Malthouse/Shithouse Compromise as it doesn't solve the Irish border issue beyond 2021. May has said she'll be voting for the govt's motion, unsurprisingly. Seems a bit of a pointless motion, unless it were to be rejected (i.e. support for No Deal), which I assume won't happen. We still need an alternative to be passed (a potential alternative deal, request for extension, election or referendum), otherwise under law we're heading for No Deal regardless of this motion.....for now, at least. I presume that if May doesn't present an alternative proposal in the next few days, that means she's planning to bring her deal back to parliament yet again before 29th March....still hoping to get it through if No Deal or No Brexit become the only alternatives? I presume Labour will present a Soft Brexit/Custom's Union amendment tomorrow, amending the motion on requesting a withdrawal? Unless some cross-party Soft Brexit proposal is agreed between Labour and Tory Moderates that can get through parliament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 (edited) @FIF It's OK, Mate. I look back and I have no sad memories about them. Maybe because I had it coming most of the time. Sometimes using force can deliver an unforgettable lesson. Getting hit on the hand is nothing. There were rules to be followed, I made my decision to not follow them and I was punished accordingly. It is a fair trade IMO. I've been hit by my parents a few and I don't hold the smallest of grudges against my mother nor my dead father. Like before, there were rules to be respected and I choose to not heed warnings so I got punished. In the house, the hierarchy must be respected. If you don't learn respect in your own home then I'm afraid to see what kind of person ones turns out to be outside of it. A person must learn Newton's third law. You don't disrespect the people who helped you to be in this world. You are warned and a person must heed a warning. A hit doesn't magically fall from the sky. You respect the rules set by your parents. (As long as they are not some crazy folk who just hit their kids for no reason) I think from where I'm from, it's a bit more traditional than the west but IMO, some kids never been hit and it shows. Some kids from the west (and even from where I'm from) are truly disrespectful and an old-fashioned "telling-off" would do them good. Edited 13 March 2019 by the fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 Why do we have a parliament where half of MPs don't seem to understand you can't take No Deal off the table? Why are these pricks our legislators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 1 hour ago, RonnieTodger said: Has TM ever actually had a good day as Prime-Minister? Why does she do it to herself? I'd actually hate to be her, it must be a nightmare. Just walk away and say I tried my best. Remember the good old days when she was getting standing ovations for saying, ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’. Could she be the worst politician in history? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 6 hours ago, Innovindil said: It really is a sad state of affairs when having good parents who don't require physical abuse to teach is considered lucky rather than the expected norm. Let's take the easy way of raising kids, let them play fortnite all day and when they struggle outside of it just give em a good smack. Some kids just don't get the lesson through words. When you warn once, twice, and even thrice and they still don't change their mind about something, physical means might come in Handy. I find that method much better than emotional abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 13 March 2019 Author Share Posted 13 March 2019 29 minutes ago, the fox said: @FIF It's OK, Mate. I look back and I have no sad memories about them. Maybe because I had it coming most of the time. Sometimes using force can deliver an unforgettable lesson. Getting hit on the hand is nothing. There were rules to be followed, I made my decision to not follow them and I was punished accordingly. It is a fair trade IMO. I've been hit by my parents a few and I don't hold the smallest of grudges against my mother nor my dead father. Like before, there were rules to be respected and I choose to not heed warnings so I got punished. In the house, the hierarchy must be respected. If you don't learn respect in your own home then I'm afraid to see what kind of person ones turns out to be outside of it. A person must learn Newton's third law. You don't disrespect the people who helped you to be in this world. You are warned and a person must heed a warning. A hit doesn't magically fall from the sky. You respect the rules set by your parents. (As long as they are not some crazy folk who just hit their kids for no reason) I think from where I'm from, it's a bit more traditional than the west but IMO, some kids never been hit and it shows. Some kids from the west (and even from where I'm from) are truly disrespectful and an old-fashioned "telling-off" would do them good. As it should be in schools, trouble is if a teacher lacks authority without any backing from above, then they've got no chance in controlling an unruly class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: As it should be in schools, trouble is if a teacher lacks authority without any backing from above, then they've got no chance in controlling an unruly class. most don't know the true repercussions of someone not abiding by the rules and going unpunished, the other kids just think it's cool and will also think that being disrespectful is ok. It will open a floodgate. The rules are there for a reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloTok Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 I reckon today's debates in the house are pretty much a waste of time, within the context of where things are that is. I suppose, to be kind, it will give an indication as to who the hard core leavers are (which people can pretty much guess) and just how stomach the house has for no-deal - which isn't a lot. I really do reckon that MPs generally really don't want to leave, not when push comes to shove. Yes, there are those that will say they support the 'will of the people' but I don't think they can quite bring themselves to vote out - be that no deal or May's deal. I get the sense they wouldn't vote for ANY deal. There might a deal of soul searching going on but I don't think there's not a huge amount of honesty at a personal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 13 March 2019 Share Posted 13 March 2019 31 minutes ago, PloTok said: I reckon today's debates in the house are pretty much a waste of time, within the context of where things are that is. I suppose, to be kind, it will give an indication as to who the hard core leavers are (which people can pretty much guess) and just how stomach the house has for no-deal - which isn't a lot. I really do reckon that MPs generally really don't want to leave, not when push comes to shove. Yes, there are those that will say they support the 'will of the people' but I don't think they can quite bring themselves to vote out - be that no deal or May's deal. I get the sense they wouldn't vote for ANY deal. There might a deal of soul searching going on but I don't think there's not a huge amount of honesty at a personal level. Not sure how true this is Not sure it's the problem when it seems to me the DUP/Irish border is the problem whatever the balance of voting is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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