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[Innovindil]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47551316

 

Moving away from brexit for a minute. How is this even allowed? I've not watched the netflix documentary and don't give a hoot about MJ, but how can it possibly be okay to release a documentary accusing the man of some truly awful things and having it reported by the national media but a counter-campaign for his innocence is somehow deemed "offensive"?

 

If you can accuse the man, surely people should be allowed to defend him. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

As it stands we're headed for an accidental no deal brexit. 

 

Farage and Banks have ensured that we won't get an extension to article 50 meaning that we'll default into leaving on the 29th. 

 

UNLESS.... We revoke article 50 which we can do at any time and cancel the whole thing!

[ozleicester]

[Nick]

6 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

As it stands we're headed for an accidental no deal brexit. 

 

Farage and Banks have ensured that we won't get an extension to article 50 meaning that we'll default into leaving on the 29th. 

 

UNLESS.... We revoke article 50 which we can do at any time and cancel the whole thing!

Can I ask you to expand about the Farage and Banks comment regarding them ensuring there won’t be an extension to A50 please? I’ve clearly missed something!

[String fellow]

Corbyn has stated that he'd oppose ANY deal agreed by Mrs. May and the EU, despite the EU stating that no other deal is available. He also opposes no deal. So what does he actually want? He voted for Article 50 and has since done all he can to stop it happening under any circumstances. I don't understand why this country as a whole and the EU commissioners don't challenge him on his completely illogical stance.        

[Nick]

7 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Corbyn has stated that he'd oppose ANY deal agreed by Mrs. May and the EU, despite the EU stating that no other deal is available. He also opposes no deal. So what does he actually want? He voted for Article 50 and has since done all he can to stop it happening under any circumstances. I don't understand why this country as a whole and the EU commissioners don't challenge him on his completely illogical stance.        

No. JC’s stance has always been to renegotiate the deal with the EU. He may well oppose any deal agreed by May as they differ on the basic stances of the market and customs. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

54 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Can I ask you to expand about the Farage and Banks comment regarding them ensuring there won’t be an extension to A50 please? I’ve clearly missed something!

We need a unanimous vote from the EU countries to extend A50 and farage and bank and Russia are conspiring with Italy and Poland to vote it down meaning that we only have 2 options left withdraw A50 or crash out.

 

Follow or look up Carole Cadwalladr investigative journalist.

 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

52 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Corbyn has stated that he'd oppose ANY deal agreed by Mrs. May and the EU, despite the EU stating that no other deal is available. He also opposes no deal. So what does he actually want? He voted for Article 50 and has since done all he can to stop it happening under any circumstances. I don't understand why this country as a whole and the EU commissioners don't challenge him on his completely illogical stance.        

Corbyn is a complete idiot, I’ll never vote Labour whilst he’s in charge, 

As for May, she just should walk away, credit to her for sticking it out but it’s taking its toll on her.

[PloTok]

10 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Now talk of a third vote on May's deal? 

 

The numbers simply are not there to get anything through.  She was finished the moment she lost all those seats in the last election.  It's simple.  No numbers, no chance.

I'm not so sure.

 

There's no doubt that May's deal would pick up more votes on its 3rd outing (oh the irony; talk about trying until you get the 'right' result!) - and May will find some more dosh to turn would-be voters, the DUP for one, to her cause - so it'd certainly be closer... but I'm not convinced there's no chance. Fear is a great motivator for some; better a deal you know. The ERG will crumble and vote because at least it's an 'out' of a sort.

 

May tried, as she does, to coerce with her 'no-deal' motion last night. That attempt was seen and countered - and May ended up looking weak as a result. It ended up being a rather good evening for Parliament taking back control. It makes matters more confused for Brexit but it was undeniably a show of Parliamentary force. 

 

I don't understand politics but the more this goes on, the more I'm learning. It's kind of like trying to pilot a heavy vessel in strong, slow currents I suppose; in that you're always going to be moved away from your plotted course by unseen swells and surges.  

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

We need a unanimous vote from the EU countries to extend A50 and farage and bank and Russia are conspiring with Italy and Poland to vote it down meaning that we only have 2 options left withdraw A50 or crash out.

 

Follow or look up Carole Cadwalladr investigative journalist.

Farage, Banks and Russia are conspiring with Italy and Poland? That's a pretty extensive conspiracy theory even for crazy cat woman Cadwalldr. I think Daniel Kascinski (sp?) has already spoken to the Polish government but I'm certain Aaron Banks wouldn't dare go near this sort of thing at the minute.

 

If the EU wants to extend A50 it's members will agree - as they pretty always do.

[Grebfromgrebland]

I should use the word 'allegedly' more often! 

 

I think calling Cadwalldr a crazy cat woman is wrong though. All she has done is put all these people together linked by Russian money. Their motive might be coming completely innocent and not to subvert UK democracy.

 

Doubt it though you only need to look at the friends they have in common. That cannot be denied.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

25 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

I should use the word 'allegedly' more often! 

 

I think calling Cadwalldr a crazy cat woman is wrong though. All she has done is put all these people together linked by Russian money. Their motive might be coming completely innocent and not to subvert UK democracy.

 

Doubt it though you only need to look at the friends they have in common. That cannot be denied.

What friends who have in common?

[lgfualol]

So Brexit is going really well isn't it

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

So Brexit is going really well isn't it

I’m enjoying it so far mate.

[davieG]

I'm half hoping the EU do reject any extension that'll get the attention of MPs 

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, davieG said:

I'm half hoping the EU do reject any extension that'll get the attention of MPs 

Oh me too.

Its simple then, deal or no deal.

[Alf Bentley]

38 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

If the EU wants to extend A50 it's members will agree - as they pretty always do.

 

What May is saying about the EU's likely stance seems accurate: a 2-3 month extension if her deal is approved, a much longer extension for any alternative option or no extension if there's no plan.

 

The EU definitely wants to avoid No Deal (though not at any price) and would prefer to get a deal settled, if not implemented before the Euro elections.

Aside from May's deal, probably the only option that could be turned around in 3 months is a general election. The EU might agree a short extension for that....but there's no guarantee an election would produce a clear majority for anything, still less something that could be turned round in a couple of months.

 

If the UK clearly opted for something else (Soft Brexit or Norway deal, Canada deal, referendum), I'd expect the EU to agree an extension but to require it to be much longer than 3 months.

A referendum would take at least 6 months to organise even before the result was implemented, and surely an alternative deal would take longer than 2-3 months to agree and implement, even if it had clear support in the UK Parliament/Govt?

 

The big grey area is what the EU would say if May persists with trying to get her deal through parliament, gets a lot more ERG/DUP types on board, but not quite enough to win the third vote. That is one of the likelier outcomes.

Would they allow her another 2-3 months to keep trying? I've no idea.

 

Mind you, an awful lot could yet happen in Parliament with amendments today or other developments before Wednesday's 3rd vote on May's Deal.....

[Buce]

An apparently ‘reliable source’ says EU will offer a four year extension.

[Alf Bentley]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Oh me too.

Its simple then, deal or no deal.

 

Last thing we need is to get the Banker(s) involved at this stage.

[PloTok]

13 minutes ago, davieG said:

I'm half hoping the EU do reject any extension that'll get the attention of MPs 

Tusk tweeting that he will appeal to the EU27 to offer a "long" extension, if one is requested.

 

That makes sense to me. There's clearly no appetite for what's on offer at the moment so a long extension gives the UK a chance to work out what it will support. 

 

Edit: it'll also lessen the pressure on MPs who may be feeling forced into choosing between 2 options they don't like; i.e. no deal or May's deal. 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Last thing we need is to get the Banker(s) involved at this stage.

 

If that’s rhyming slang, it’s way too late - they’re already running the show. 

[Carl the Llama]

Probably a dumb question but is anything about May's deal being changed before the 3rd vote (beyond the number of greasy palms of course)?

[PloTok]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Probably a dumb question but is anything about May's deal being changed before the 3rd vote (beyond the number of greasy palms of course)?

Certain folk are trying to get Cox to broaden his advice and include reference to article 62 of the Vienna Convention (which Cox dismissed yesterday).

 

So, in answer to your question, no not really. May's deal will be represented as is. May probably thinking that minds will be changed after becoming more 'focused' or somesuch.

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, PloTok said:

Certain folk are trying to get Cox to broaden his advice and include reference to article 62 of the Vienna Convention (which Cox dismissed yesterday).

 

So, in answer to your question, no not really. May's deal will be represented as is. May probably thinking that minds will be changed after becoming more 'focused' or somesuch.

Follow up question:  How are we determining which votes are allowed to be re-cast and which ones must be respected at all costs and regardless of new information?

[PloTok]

By my understanding, party loyalties and whips aside, it's a clean slate. MPs simply vote again as if it were a new question asked for the first time.

 

IF the speaker allows the same motion to be moved again that is. Apparently, the speaker is within their rights to refuse the re-tabling of the same motion. I don't think Bercow would exercise that right though, there'd be uproar!