Christchurch

[Jattdogg]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The kids slapped the egg on him, it's assault and he'd easily argue self defence on that one. 

Put his views to the side for a minute as he is tosser. If that teen did that to me I'd probably would have slapped him too  in the moment (right or wrong). He is 17 looks close enough to being an adult and should know you cant go around assaulting people. 

 

Sure you can preach restraint but in the moment theres no telling how anyone would really react. That would have pissed me off royally though if i got egged like that.

 

 

[Finnegan]

What the **** is wrong with you two?

He's a minor, he's half the guys size, he hits him with one egg and the guy clocks him twice in the head before his security stomp his ass. 

 

I'm not suggesting the kid might not have also broken the law and I'm not suggesting he shouldn't also be punished but on what planet is that a reasonable response? 

 

And I'm talking legally, not "oh but the little shit deserved a shoeing" or anything like that. 

 

If you slap me in the face I can't then beat the ever loving shit out of you and call it self defence, there has to be a point at which it stops being reasonable and slapping and punching a child because he throws food at you is not reasonable self defence. 

Edited 21 March 2019 by Finnegan

[MC Prussian]

4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Tbf I've just seen that photo and you can't defend it:

Hmm...

 

He spelt "Islamophobe" wrong...

Funny the people criticizing Peterson for this (remember him posing with the Pepe the frog flag?)

 

But seriously:

 

Who's for genital mutilation?

Misogyny?

Wife-beating?

Rape?

Paedophilia?

Anyone?

 

Although in all fairness, you could use some of these points against major Western governments, such as funding of terrorism.

[Carl the Llama]

26 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Hmm...

 

He spelt "Islamophobe" wrong...

Funny the people criticizing Peterson for this (remember him posing with the Pepe the frog flag?)

 

But seriously:

 

Who's for genital mutilation?

Misogyny?

Wife-beating?

Rape?

Paedophilia?

Anyone?

 

Although in all fairness, you could use some of these points against major Western governments, such as funding of terrorism.

Nobody's for those things, but most right minded people aren't for branding all Muslims as those things either.  I can't believe that actually needs saying.  

 

It's been explained that the t-shirt photo was taken during a long session of meeting fans and it would have been wrong to deny this one man a photo when everyone else got one...   Now of course Peterson can't be held accountable for what the other man's wearing but like @leicsmac said earlier it's troubling to see him attract people like that.  I've since looked a bit further into it and I've found a couple of videos where Peterson criticises Islam which is fine, I think all religions deserve to be criticised.  He even specifies that he takes issue with Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia and I agree with that sentiment too.   However if you're on record with those beliefs then surely you'd want to be careful not to seem allied with the more hateful side of that argument?

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

What the **** is wrong with you two?

He's a minor, he's half the guys size, he hits him with one egg and the guy clocks him twice in the head before his security stomp his ass. 

 

I'm not suggesting the kid might not have also broken the law and I'm not suggesting he shouldn't also be punished but on what planet is that a reasonable response? 

 

And I'm talking legally, not "oh but the little shit deserved a shoeing" or anything like that. 

 

If you slap me in the face I can't then beat the ever loving shit out of you and call it self defence, there has to be a point at which it stops being reasonable and slapping and punching a child because he throws food at you is not reasonable self defence. 

Calm down finns nobody is talking about beating the shit out of this kid even though he is old enough to realise not to do that. Theres a line of respect you need to have and at 17 i would not be throwing an egg at an adult or anyone for that matter. My dad would probably beat my ass for doing something like that.

 

Im talking about initial reaction when someone hits you might be to hit back hence why i wouldn't blame someone for an initial reaction.  Im not saying beating the shit out of the lad is what you should do nor is it the right thing to do. If he slapped the kid then thought not a good idea yes he should have stopped there. His goons didnt need to do what they did but the day an age we live in you are asking for trouble when you do those things. Is what it is.

 

 

Oh and yes legally thats not the response to have without being charged for something. Thats common sense. But some people dont care about legality when they are pissed at perceived assault.

 

Some people bite back right or wrong.

Edited 22 March 2019 by Jattdogg

[ozleicester]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

 

 

But seriously:

 

Who's for genital mutilation?

Misogyny?

Wife-beating?

Rape?

Paedophilia?

Anyone?

 

Although in all fairness, you could use some of these points against major Western governments, such as funding of terrorism.

George Pell  and the Catholic church?

[MC Prussian]

11 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

George Pell  and the Catholic church?

Well, in times like these I'm happy I'm not part of that particular club.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Nobody's for those things, but most right minded people aren't for branding all Muslims as those things either.  I can't believe that actually needs saying.  

 

It's been explained that the t-shirt photo was taken during a long session of meeting fans and it would have been wrong to deny this one man a photo when everyone else got one...   Now of course Peterson can't be held accountable for what the other man's wearing but like @leicsmac said earlier it's troubling to see him attract people like that.  I've since looked a bit further into it and I've found a couple of videos where Peterson criticises Islam which is fine, I think all religions deserve to be criticised.  He even specifies that he takes issue with Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia and I agree with that sentiment too.   However if you're on record with those beliefs then surely you'd want to be careful not to seem allied with the more hateful side of that argument?

All of this, especially the last sentence.

[MC Prussian]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Nobody's for those things, but most right minded people aren't for branding all Muslims as those things either.  I can't believe that actually needs saying.  

 

It's been explained that the t-shirt photo was taken during a long session of meeting fans and it would have been wrong to deny this one man a photo when everyone else got one...   Now of course Peterson can't be held accountable for what the other man's wearing but like @leicsmac said earlier it's troubling to see him attract people like that.  I've since looked a bit further into it and I've found a couple of videos where Peterson criticises Islam which is fine, I think all religions deserve to be criticised.  He even specifies that he takes issue with Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia and I agree with that sentiment too.   However if you're on record with those beliefs then surely you'd want to be careful not to seem allied with the more hateful side of that argument?

What's troubling about it? He can't be held responsible for other people's actions, you say it yourself.

 

Imagine Peterson doing a rather extended photo session after one of his talks.

You have maybe 20, 50, 100 people asking for a picture - and one, ONE of them wears such a shirt. According to reports, there were 165 people asking for a picture that night. 165. Even in the most "reprehensible" of all scenarios, what's that? 5% of all people that asked for a photograph? After a session witnessed by 1'000, 2'000, 3'000 people? He had an audience of 5'000 in Melbourne, for example. So you can deduct that 99% of his fans do not share exactly the same views as Shirt Man.

 

Then I ask myself: What's the fuss all about? Isn't this just another example of a group pushing their own agenda, trying to initiate a smear campaign based on a tiny fraction of the whole?

 

Why should I care about an extreme minority that may or may not be extremists? We don't even know how serious the guy in the shirt is/was. These groups don't have an impact on my life, I couldn't care less about them. It's a storm in a a teacup, but today's media sells it as just another scandal in order to sell their papers, sometimes working hand in hand with political institutions in order to shape the public discourse.

My rule of thumb: Don't let a minority dictate what the majority has to think.

 

Greetings, 1984.

Edited 22 March 2019 by MC Prussian

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

What's troubling about it? He can't be held responsible for other people's actions, you say it yourself.

 

Imagine Peterson doing a rather extended photo session after one of his talks.

You have maybe 20, 50, 100 people asking for a picture - and one, ONE of them wears such a shirt. According to reports, there were 165 people asking for a picture that night. 165. Even in the most "reprehensible" of all scenarios, what's that? 5% of all people that asked for a photograph? After a session witnessed by 1'000, 2'000, 3'000 people? He had an audience of 5'000 in Melbourne, for example. So you can deduct that 99% of his fans do not share exactly the same views as Shirt Man.

 

Then I ask myself: What's the fuss all about? Isn't this just another example of a group pushing their own agenda, trying to initiate a smear campaign based on a tiny fraction of the whole?

 

Why should I care about an extreme minority that may or may not be extremists? We don't even know how serious the guy in the shirt is/was. These groups don't have an impact on my life, I couldn't care less about them. It's a storm in a a teacup, but today's media sells it as just another scandal in order to sell their papers, sometimes working hand in hand with political institutions in order to shape the public discourse.

My rule of thumb: Don't let a minority dictate what the majority has to think.

 

Greetings, 1984.

...because one of them killed 50 people in one sitting a few days ago - which is how this thread started?

[MC Prussian]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...because one of them killed 50 people in one sitting a few days ago - which is how this thread started?

Please elaborate how one guy with a shirt offensive to some is connected to another guy killing 49+ people and why I should care about Shirt Man.

 

We don't know how serious the T-shirt stunt was. It may as well have been meant as a (bad) joke. The guy couldn't even spell "Islamophobe" right, FFS.

Edited 22 March 2019 by MC Prussian

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Please elaborate how one guy with a shirt offensive to some is connected to another guy killing 49+ people and why I should care about Shirt Man.

 

We don't know how serious the T-shirt stunt was. It may as well have been meant as a (bad) joke. The guy couldn't even spell "Islamophobe" right, FFS.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the white supremacist extremists in general as opposed to Shirt Guy in particular (who indeed may or may not hold those views).

 

Honestly though, I do admire your steadfast certainty in what you believe, here and elsewhere.

[Finnegan]

@Jattdogg have you seen it?

 

He turns round, looks at the kid, realises there's just a little teenage boy pointing a phone at him, thinks a second and then smacks him. The kid reels back, he waits a second, then smacks him again. 

 

He'd quite possibly have continued to do so but his security wade in and absolutely take the kid out. 

 

I mean he's fine, he's not in hospital needing facial reconstruction or anything but it's still 100% assault (whether throwing an egg at someone also is or not.) 

 

It's not self defence, it's retaliation. He was under no threat of harm from the kid who wasn't doing anything more than standing with his phone after egging. 

Edited 22 March 2019 by Finnegan

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

10 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Nobody's for those things, but most right minded people aren't for branding all Muslims as those things either.  I can't believe that actually needs saying.  

 

It's been explained that the t-shirt photo was taken during a long session of meeting fans and it would have been wrong to deny this one man a photo when everyone else got one...   Now of course Peterson can't be held accountable for what the other man's wearing but like @leicsmac said earlier it's troubling to see him attract people like that.  I've since looked a bit further into it and I've found a couple of videos where Peterson criticises Islam which is fine, I think all religions deserve to be criticised.  He even specifies that he takes issue with Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia and I agree with that sentiment too.   However if you're on record with those beliefs then surely you'd want to be careful not to seem allied with the more hateful side of that argument?

To be fair, the few comments he's made on Islam do seem to say there is a fundamental difference between it and Christianity in that Mohammed (sp?) was a warlord. He did say he doesnt know enough about it, but the implication of that suggests a suspicion of Islam itself and thats a pretty incediary comment and I think one would be justified and wanting him to expand on that as best he can because it corresponds with the war of civilisations view

 

Its the one area ive seen him dabble in that i wonder what the extent of his thought is there, because if you believe Christianity and Islam are essentially adversaries then thats a pretty poor outlook for the world.  I dont believe thats the essential issue at hand, but there are some that do and its a conversation worth having to cut through the bs. Difficult conversation maybe. Not helped by idiotic t shirts of course

[Jattdogg]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

@Jattdogg have you seen it?

 

He turns round, looks at the kid, realises there's just a little teenage boy pointing a phone at him, thinks a second and then smacks him. The kid reels back, he waits a second, then smacks him again. 

 

He'd quite possibly have continued to do so but his security wade in and absolutely take the kid out. 

 

I mean he's fine, he's not in hospital needing facial reconstruction or anything but it's still 100% assault (whether throwing an egg at someone also is or not.) 

 

It's not self defence, it's retaliation. He was under no threat of harm from the kid who wasn't doing anything more than standing with his phone after egging. 

Of course ive seen it. Again im not condoning what he did or the goons did after.  I just understand if someone reacted by fighting back with a slap. Its a natural reaction for some people.

 

Im not going to get into a debate over this with you as i dont neccesarily disagree with what you are saying. 

 

Its just sad that we have people out there like this politician who makes disgraceful comments, is elected by his peers to begin with and that its okay that people think violence against muslims, anyone for that matter or egg throwing will solve a situation or change attitudes.

 

 

 

 

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Of course ive seen it. Again im not condoning what he did or the goons did after.  I just understand if someone reacted by fighting back with a slap. Its a natural reaction for some people.

 

Im not going to get into a debate over this with you as i dont neccesarily disagree with what you are saying. 

 

Its just sad that we have people out there like this politician who makes disgraceful comments, is elected by his peers to begin with and that its okay that people think violence against muslims, anyone for that matter or egg throwing will solve a situation or change attitudes.

 

 

 

 

12

 

I don't know how the Aussie system of representation works but he only received something like 19 votes.

 

Maybe @ozleicester could explain?

[Jattdogg]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

I don't know how the Aussie system of representation works but he only received something like 19 votes.

 

Maybe @ozleicester could explain?

Ya i didnt look into how he was elected but will be interesting to know (too lazy to google myself lol)

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

I don't know how the Aussie system of representation works but he only received something like 19 votes.

 

Maybe @ozleicester could explain?

This was a particularly bizarre set of circumstances. I will TRY to explain

Our government has two houses, House of Representatives and, the Senate. The senate is pretty much the house of review for laws etc.

 

This scum is in the Senate. which is why he can get in with almost zero support... 

 

Damn i just tried to explain and i really cant with the written word im just not that good lol...

 

In simple terms, he was the third choice for One Nation a party in based in Queensland (our redneck state), In the senate technically you vote for the party rather than individuals ...the party got enough votes for 2 senators to represent Qld in parliament (each state in Oz has 12 senators in the senate).

 

The second choice senator for the party was made to leave after it was found he had not renounced his British citizenship. (we lost about 10 parliamentarians due to this in the past 12 months... it has been a schemozzle).. which left us with the #Scumsenator being drafted in as a replacement.

 

He was then kicked out of the redneck right wing One Nation party coz he was too right wing even for them!!... which left him as an independent senator even though he only got 19 votes.

 

Sorry i havent really made that clear.

[Jattdogg]

3 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

This was a particularly bizarre set of circumstances. I will TRY to explain

Our government has two houses, House of Representatives and, the Senate. The senate is pretty much the house of review for laws etc.

 

This scum is in the Senate. which is why he can get in with almost zero support... 

 

Damn i just tried to explain and i really cant with the written word im just not that good lol...

 

In simple terms, he was the third choice for One Nation a party in based in Queensland (our redneck state), In the senate technically you vote for the party rather than individuals ...the party got enough votes for 2 senators to represent Qld in parliament (each state in Oz has 12 senators in the senate).

 

The second choice senator for the party was made to leave after it was found he had not renounced his British citizenship. (we lost about 10 parliamentarians due to this in the past 12 months... it has been a schemozzle).. which left us with the #Scumsenator being drafted in as a replacement.

 

He was then kicked out of the redneck right wing One Nation party coz he was too right wing even for them!!... which left him as an independent senator even though he only got 19 votes.

 

Sorry i havent really made that clear.

Shocking but not surprised this happens.  How long will he be in office for?

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

This was a particularly bizarre set of circumstances. I will TRY to explain

Our government has two houses, House of Representatives and, the Senate. The senate is pretty much the house of review for laws etc.

 

This scum is in the Senate. which is why he can get in with almost zero support... 

 

Damn i just tried to explain and i really cant with the written word im just not that good lol...

 

In simple terms, he was the third choice for One Nation a party in based in Queensland (our redneck state), In the senate technically you vote for the party rather than individuals ...the party got enough votes for 2 senators to represent Qld in parliament (each state in Oz has 12 senators in the senate).

 

The second choice senator for the party was made to leave after it was found he had not renounced his British citizenship. (we lost about 10 parliamentarians due to this in the past 12 months... it has been a schemozzle).. which left us with the #Scumsenator being drafted in as a replacement.

 

He was then kicked out of the redneck right wing One Nation party coz he was too right wing even for them!!... which left him as an independent senator even though he only got 19 votes.

 

Sorry i havent really made that clear.

 

On the contrary, mate, you’ve explained it well. Thanks. 

[ozleicester]

11 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Shocking but not surprised this happens.  How long will he be in office for?

The senate is voted for 6 years terms but it is split  so half gets changed every three years.

 

Fortunately the #scumsenator will be up for re-election in May this year and he will be voted out then.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48631488

 

Pleads not guilty.

 

What on Earth kind of defence can be used here, I wonder?

[Facecloth]

Just now, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48631488

 

Pleads not guilty.

 

What on Earth kind of defence can be used here, I wonder?

Is Trump his legal advisor? How can he plead not guilty when he filmed himself doing it!!

[Benguin]

5 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Is Trump his legal advisor? How can he plead not guilty when he filmed himself doing it!!

It’s s free break from prison I guess. It’s not like a guilty plea is going to reduce his sentence. 

[Facecloth]

Just now, Benguin said:

It’s s free break from prison I guess. It’s not like a guilty plea is going to reduce his sentence. 

Fair point.