Christchurch

[ozleicester]

Its up to governments and people to demonstrate an opposition to the sites and not feed the trolls. Appearing on tv shows that are out and out filled with racial hatred should be illegal for parliamentarians... hate speech does not equal free speech

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

You're right, there's no way to combat it by attacking the sites these people encourage each other on, a new platform will always arise.  The problem is that these people exist in the first place, how do you solve society so that we stop pushing kids like him to believe the ridiculous things he does?

 

And that's exactly my point, I agree completely. 

 

The thing is, we demonise these people and ban their communities and we must feed in to their sense of rebellion and victimisation. 

 

I'd really like to believe, and I can't believe I'm about to type this phrase, we can reclaim them with love. 

 

I think its incredibly sad that with every generation there's a growing mass of extremely angry, disconnected young boys getting further edged out to the fringes of decent society. 

[ozleicester]

twitter  #eggboy

 

After #Climatestrike yesterday.. there is hope

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, hejammy said:

So we can take the same thought process when the members in question post things like 'the Muslim community should all come out and condemn this terrorist attack' or 'the Muslim community need to be vocal and eliminate the extremist from their community' etc etc. Are they not entitled to 'post' or 'not post'? A terrorist attack is a terrorist attack and if you are against violence and hatred of this kind then the colour, background, breed, sex or race of the perpetrator should have no baring. 

I get your point, but forum is about opinions and individual thoughts, to subject people conform to your opinion or thought process is wrong also

[urban.spaceman]

The best way to solve it would sure be to give these kids something better to do? Get them off their computers and out in the real world?! Stop defunding and mismanaging youth activity groups; instead of demonising them, or giving them reasons to feel demonised, make them part of the community and let them make a positive contribution.

[Buce]

5 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Sure but they don't need to, Carl, to access a near endless supply of hate groups and almost entirely uncensored communities which is the point Buce seemed to deliberately be missing. Absolutely nowhere have I commented what is or isn't on the dark web.

 

2

 

19 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

It's not the dark Web and we can't kill them. The dark Web in itself might be an issue, rife with paedophiles, terrorists, hackers and whatever else but most of these forums are public domain. That makes it way, way worse than the dark Web because any angry little 14 year old incel can find 8chan and start getting indoctrinated. 

 

 

1

1

 

Once again.

 

I haven't said the problem is confined to the DW - you have demonstrated it isn't - but you have dismissed any suggestion of the problem also existing there in your usual arrogant way despite being completely ignorant on the subject.

Edited 16 March 2019 by Buce

[PloTok]

I've nothing to add to the debate, I just wanted to say thanks to @Finnegan for some incredibly informative posts. 

 

I feel crept up on. I knew of gamers but had an incredibly limited definition it seems. I knew generally of sub-cultures, of internet trolls and shitposting, even of 4chan and 8chan. What I didn't realise was the submerged depth (iceberg like) of the network, its inter-connectivity of various groups whose perhaps soul point in common was a desire to get a reaction through disruption. The referencing of shared memes and tropes just enhancing the sense of common aims. I feel I'm minimising or trivialising with those words, that's not my intention - it's fvcking frightening.  

 

Finnegan's given me a 101, a primer. I can't grasp the enormity of it, nor (evidently!) even understand it, but I can see that it is there.

Edited 16 March 2019 by PloTok
errant comma

[hejammy]

1 hour ago, Dr The Singh said:

I get your point, but forum is about opinions and individual thoughts, to subject people conform to your opinion or thought process is wrong also

I agree on most cases, for example when we are talking about who should start for city etc, it's all a matter of opinion. When people have died as a result of a terrorist attack, it shouldn't be subjective, its quite clear that its wrong, regardless of who the terrorist was, so if you have sympathy for the victims for 1 terrorist attack then you should also for another regardless of the race, religion etc of the terrorist and/or the victim. By not having that thought you by default fall into a 'this race/religion/sex deserves more sympathy than another. 

[Izzy]

How good has the NZ PM Jacinda Ardern been btw.

 

I think she’s spoken with huge empathy and sadness while also being tough and firm saying the gun laws will change.

 

You can tell she’s deeply effected and cares greatly for her country and it’s people.

 

 

 

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Izzy said:

How good has the NZ PM Jacinda Ardern been btw.

 

I think she’s spoken with huge empathy and sadness while also being tough and firm saying the gun laws will change.

 

You can tell she’s deeply effected and cares greatly for her country and it’s people.

 

 

 

 

Trump could learn a thing or two. 

[ozleicester]

40 minutes ago, Izzy said:

How good has the NZ PM Jacinda Ardern been btw.

 

I think she’s spoken with huge empathy and sadness while also being tough and firm saying the gun laws will change.

 

You can tell she’s deeply effected and cares greatly for her country and it’s people.

 

 

 

She has been a superb leader for some time now... sadly as Canada has the USA ...we have become the New Zealnds - USA.

 

Our leader is a fool with hidden racist undertones and no shame.

 

an edit to that. We have locked refugees up on an island for 5 years now... these people are legal/legitimate/internationally accepted as REFUGEES. The NZ Pm offered to take them... our "leader" wont even allow that, these people (Children included) have no end date to their imprisonment...oh and most are Muslims... what a surprise

Edited 16 March 2019 by ozleicester

[DennisNedry]

So.. what are people's opinions on people watching the footage? 

 

I've seen a few post here about having watched it. After agonising a bit over it, I caved to my morbid curiosity and watched it myself.

 

Actually thinking about it.. is it even legal to watch it? 

[Jattdogg]

1 hour ago, DennisNedry said:

So.. what are people's opinions on people watching the footage? 

 

I've seen a few post here about having watched it. After agonising a bit over it, I caved to my morbid curiosity and watched it myself.

 

Actually thinking about it.. is it even legal to watch it? 

I wish i never clicked on it. In my defense i didnt know what i was clicking on when it was forwarded to me on whatsapp but i froze in shock as it played.  Deleted it and in no way forwarding that to anyone.  Dont know why people would want to see it as its such a sad thing to see  for so many reasons.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, DennisNedry said:

So.. what are people's opinions on people watching the footage? 

 

I've seen a few post here about having watched it. After agonising a bit over it, I caved to my morbid curiosity and watched it myself.

 

Actually thinking about it.. is it even legal to watch it? 

Stumbled onto it minutes after the attack. It’s surreally like a film or video game. Which is even more horrifying when you realise these are innocent people. I felt depressed afterwards as I was watching the last moments of so many innocent people being slaughtered for no good reason whatsoever. I still struggle to comprehend how someone can get to that moment right before an attack; months of planning and preparing to do something so evil to innocent people - And then actually still going through with it.

 

There’s a morbid curiosity that I can’t quite turn off there, almost (very tiny almost) that it’s another tragedy that the perpetrator had reached that point in their life whereby they could actually do something so appalling to so many people. I feel that way about any such attack - whomever the perpetrator - mainly in a manner of questioning how it could have been prevented. Just what the **** has ledthis person to do something so ****ing awful?

[yorkie1999]

43 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Stumbled onto it minutes after the attack. It’s surreally like a film or video game. Which is even more horrifying when you realise these are innocent people. I felt depressed afterwards as I was watching the last moments of so many innocent people being slaughtered for no good reason whatsoever. I still struggle to comprehend how someone can get to that moment right before an attack; months of planning and preparing to do something so evil to innocent people - And then actually still going through with it.

 

There’s a morbid curiosity that I can’t quite turn off there, almost (very tiny almost) that it’s another tragedy that the perpetrator had reached that point in their life whereby they could actually do something so appalling to so many people. I feel that way about any such attack - whomever the perpetrator - mainly in a manner of questioning how it could have been prevented. Just what the **** has ledthis person to do something so ****ing awful?

To answer a question like that in this current climate of Islamaphobia, and it is a real thing, is very difficult. The easy answer is to label him as a terrorist and that becomes an end to it but, is he really a terrorist, has he done what he’s done for a political aim? I very much doubt it. He’s an ultra right wing mass murderer with a hatred of Muslims who’s decided to go on the rampage, that’s the underlying reason  as to what’s led him to do what he’s done. To me the real problem is that the events in Christchurch, however shocking, will quickly become forgotten in the same way as when  we read about some twisted nut job whose gone on the rampage in some American school and shot half his ex school mates and teachers to death because he was rejected and outcasted, which leads onto another point. At the moment we have seen, in our country, a rise in knife crime, and a knife is available to anyone but we also live in  a country where guns are banned and we don’t get mass shootings, in those countries where guns are available, you get mass shootings. Maybe the answer is  to criminalise the possession of guns to everyoneand have a worldwide amnesty on guns, but maybe it’s too late for that and we’ll just have to sit around waiting for the next mass murder.

[OzFox]

6 hours ago, DennisNedry said:

So.. what are people's opinions on people watching the footage? 

 

I've seen a few post here about having watched it. After agonising a bit over it, I caved to my morbid curiosity and watched it myself.

 

Actually thinking about it.. is it even legal to watch it? 

I was asked to download copies as we expected to use it for TV broadcast. But thankfully my employer has decided not to show it, except for a few freeze frames outside the mosque. They're also apparently not quoting the 'manifesto'.

 

Interesting question about the legality of watching it. I know in Sweden they threatened a jail sentence a few months back for anyone sharing the video of the female backpacker beheaded in Morocco. That was after it was privately sent to friends and family of the girl, which I assume is almost certainly illegal. 

[ozleicester]

52 minutes ago, OzFox said:

I was asked to download copies as we expected to use it for TV broadcast. But thankfully my employer has decided not to show it, except for a few freeze frames outside the mosque. They're also apparently not quoting the 'manifesto'.

 

Interesting question about the legality of watching it. I know in Sweden they threatened a jail sentence a few months back for anyone sharing the video of the female backpacker beheaded in Morocco. That was after it was privately sent to friends and family of the girl, which I assume is almost certainly illegal. 

NZ Tv has taken Sky News Australia off air because those filfthy racist scumbags were using the footage. I hope you dont work for News, (i did) but if you do... get out, that company has a hand in this massacre, everyone who works with that company needs to reflect on the job they do.

Their papers and more particualrly.. their late night news pander to right wing racist hatemongers and they along with our pathetic politicians help give these people a voice and the feeling of righteousness .

[OzFox]

27 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

NZ Tv has taken Sky News Australia off air because those filfthy racist scumbags were using the footage. I hope you dont work for News, (i did) but if you do... get out, that company has a hand in this massacre, everyone who works with that company needs to reflect on the job they do.

Their papers and more particualrly.. their late night news pander to right wing racist hatemongers and they along with our pathetic politicians help give these people a voice and the feeling of righteousness .

No i don't work for Rupert. A few friends in London do though....I'll pass on your thoughts

 

I think Channel 10 broadcast it as well, at least for a while.

 

The real problem though seems to be online. Facebook supposedly removed 1.5 million copies of the video in the first 24hrs

 

 

[MC Prussian]

23 hours ago, ozleicester said:

She has been a superb leader for some time now... sadly as Canada has the USA ...we have become the New Zealnds - USA.

 

Our leader is a fool with hidden racist undertones and no shame.

 

an edit to that. We have locked refugees up on an island for 5 years now... these people are legal/legitimate/internationally accepted as REFUGEES. The NZ Pm offered to take them... our "leader" wont even allow that, these people (Children included) have no end date to their imprisonment...oh and most are Muslims... what a surprise

Ok, so we are digressing here a bit. Or rather, I am digressing.

We can agree Trump is a polarizing figure.

 

Trudeau is now caught up in his own scandal, and his politics are controversial, as well. Look up Jaspal Atwal. Elbowgate. Or the Eagle Spirit pipeline:

https://nationalpost.com/news/first-nations-coalition-calls-for-rejection-of-trudeau-tanker-ban-one-group-plans-to-file-un-complaint-against-ottawa

People get caught up in that pretty face of his too often and forget to look past the facade.

 

Collusion? Here's some:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/21/political-scandal-poses-threat-justin-trudeau-image-of-transparency

 

And many, many Canadians, not just on the right of the political spectrum, are fed up with him.

Not everything on the Left is good, just as much as not everything on the Right is bad.

Edited 17 March 2019 by MC Prussian

[ozleicester]

14 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Ok, so we are digressing here a bit. Or rather, I am digressing.

We can agree Trump is a polarizing figure.

 

Trudeau is now caught up in his own scandal, and his politics are controversial, as well. Look up Jaspal Atwal. Elbowgate. Or the Eagle Spirit pipeline:

https://nationalpost.com/news/first-nations-coalition-calls-for-rejection-of-trudeau-tanker-ban-one-group-plans-to-file-un-complaint-against-ottawa

People get caught up in that pretty face of his too often and forget to look past the facade.

 

Collusion? Here's some:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/21/political-scandal-poses-threat-justin-trudeau-image-of-transparency

 

And many, many Canadians, not just on the right of the political spectrum, are fed up with him.

Not everything on the Left is good, just as much as not everything on the Right is bad.

Im making zero reference to trump or trudeau... im talking about an Australian media that allows even supports the hatefilled ravings of  scaremongers and racists, they do it for dollars, the politicians do it for power and dollars, hate speech doe not equal free speech

Edited 17 March 2019 by ozleicester

[spacemunky]

On 16/03/2019 at 09:37, Finnegan said:

 

Trump could learn a thing or two. 

I honestly doubt he could.

[deep blue]

On 16/03/2019 at 13:25, Izzy said:

How good has the NZ PM Jacinda Ardern been btw.

 

I think she’s spoken with huge empathy and sadness while also being tough and firm saying the gun laws will change.

 

You can tell she’s deeply effected and cares greatly for her country and it’s people.

 

 

 

I was hugely impressed with her, too.

 

A breath of fresh air as compared with the dross of many of our current UK politicians.

[Buce]

[Mickyblueeyes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47605542

 

 interesting that there was no mark of respect. 

[Lionator]

On 16/03/2019 at 11:27, urban.spaceman said:

The best way to solve it would sure be to give these kids something better to do? Get them off their computers and out in the real world?! Stop defunding and mismanaging youth activity groups; instead of demonising them, or giving them reasons to feel demonised, make them part of the community and let them make a positive contribution.

You can't completely blame the internet. There was David Copeland in 1999 before the internet and many many before. I do agree however that kids are bored. They're also increasingly sucked into the negative 24/7 media based world we now live in.