Extinction Rebellion

[Itsthejoeker]

3 hours ago, Unabomber said:

Yeah they seem to be against personal hygiene 

This, they’re camped outside my work. Smells like a CEX. 

[ozleicester]

FFS

 

Never so many stupid comments on one topic.

The climate is changing, if something isnt done it will be the sea camped outside your door.

 

These people are doing something, they are trying to help. but the monkeys in their offices are just following the media/government spin. Pissed off that their $ might be affected.

[Innovindil]

15 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

FFS

 

Never so many stupid comments on one topic.

The climate is changing, if something isnt done it will be the sea camped outside your door.

 

These people are doing something, they are trying to help. but the monkeys in their offices are just following the media/government spin. Pissed off that their $ might be affected.

Where, exactly? Stopping ordinary citizens going about their lives isn't helping, it's being a twat. 

[leicsmac]

Finn has it about right, unfortunately - changes need to happen but to apply those changes you need a plurality of people who want them and ER aren't likely to deliver that themselves.

 

None of this changes the scientific data about how the environment is changing, however.

[TheLittleBigMan]

I'll have me 2 pence worth. We have just entered the 6th great mass extinction event. That means there is a strong possibility that most species will become extinct. It seems to me humanities biggest problem is not understanding that that means us too. Even if we went to zero emissions tomorrow, we will still suffer the consequences of the damage we have already done. The scientific evidence cannot be denied. A disruption from a mass protest pales in comparison to what the future holds for all of us. Science is currently at a point where they really can't say for sure that our species is going to make it. If that doesn't make you sh*t your pants, if all that does is create debates about pros and cons of a protest, I think you'll find we're pretty much fu*ked. 

There are children taking to the streets, along with the elderly, employed, unemployed - the whole shabang. Not all of them are smelly but all of them are trying to do something about what is without doubt a total game changer to our way of life. 

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Where, exactly? Stopping ordinary citizens going about their lives isn't helping, it's being a twat. 

Creating a discussion, helping our elected officials realise that their obsession with money and growth is unsustainable and the people are rising. 

 

Politicians will listen and act, or be replaced by people who will.

 

The daily mail/Sun comments of they are smelly, should get a job etc are so outdated and sheep like.

Edited 8 October 2019 by ozleicester

[TheLittleBigMan]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Where, exactly? Stopping ordinary citizens going about their lives isn't helping, it's being a twat. 

That's an interesting point. The way we go about living our lives is the exact reason the environment is at the point of collapse. I don't always agree with protesting to be fair but I see a sense of irony in this case. I'm not pointing the finger at you personally, but I would question who the twats are in all of this. our way of living our lives has got to change, if we don't do this, doesn't that make us the twats and not the ones who are trying, rightly or wrongly to propagate change? The change as far as I can see is not going to come from our archaic political institutions, nor is it ever going to come from the top 1%. It has to come from us, and it has to be done in a very extreme way now, as we are clearly running out of time before mother nature makes this change without us - and she certainly doesn't give a sh*t about stopping ordinary citizens going about their lives. 

[leicsmac]

29 minutes ago, TheLittleBigMan said:

That's an interesting point. The way we go about living our lives is the exact reason the environment is at the point of collapse. I don't always agree with protesting to be fair but I see a sense of irony in this case. I'm not pointing the finger at you personally, but I would question who the twats are in all of this. our way of living our lives has got to change, if we don't do this, doesn't that make us the twats and not the ones who are trying, rightly or wrongly to propagate change? The change as far as I can see is not going to come from our archaic political institutions, nor is it ever going to come from the top 1%. It has to come from us, and it has to be done in a very extreme way now, as we are clearly running out of time before mother nature makes this change without us - and she certainly doesn't give a sh*t about stopping ordinary citizens going about their lives. 

I'd moderate this slightly by saying that the scale of change requires the various world governments and the 1% to back it rather than being a purely grassroots thing (it's going to take an awful lot of effort and infrastructure), but you're spot on with the last part - the Earth doesn't care in the least about the politics of it all, or what flavour of government is in charge at any one time, and that's why it's frustrating when people try to paint this as an exclusively political issue - it's only that because some people want it to be because....reasons.

[TheLittleBigMan]

36 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'd moderate this slightly by saying that the scale of change requires the various world governments and the 1% to back it rather than being a purely grassroots thing (it's going to take an awful lot of effort and infrastructure), but you're spot on with the last part - the Earth doesn't care in the least about the politics of it all, or what flavour of government is in charge at any one time, and that's why it's frustrating when people try to paint this as an exclusively political issue - it's only that because some people want it to be because....reasons.

Thanks for the reply. Your right to say the scale of change required needs governments and the top 1%. The problem with that I feel is with the top 1% in particular, are the ones who profit the most from this way of life. When I look at the governments ability to implement the change required, I cannot see how they can make legislations etc stick, when the top 1% are quite literally propping up most global economies. If we look at fossil fuels for example, it's all well and good saying we need to get rid of them, but these companies hold a seat of power over governments related to their position of economic value. These are historically wealthy and powerful families, who have always had a close relationship with our political institutions. How on earth (no pun intended) can this be unpicked and re built with the correct, and what will need to be a largely scientific approach? 

We all now know we have the science and technology to have zero emissions, we've had this capability for bloody ages. Along with ability to eradicate poverty, and all the other pointless and needless aspects of our way of life, do you think it's reasonable to say that it's actually politics, and it's relationship with top 1% that is preventing this from happening? I definitely agree with your last sentiment,  i think it's dangerous for society to always be looking to them as the source of change or to blame them for the current state of affairs. No-one is holding a gun to anyones head forcing them to carry on with their own way of life. How about we start to question our own reasons for continuing to be a part of a failing ideology.         

Edited 8 October 2019 by TheLittleBigMan

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

it's only that because some people want it to be because....reasons.

It is because... $

 

Its that simple, the governments and simple media owners are being paid by the coal/fossil fuel industry. The Tobacco companies did it in the 60s/70s and set back the change by decades, causing untold millions of deaths. These greedy murderers are doing the same and will kill millions as a result.

 

For some reason we the suckers buy their lies

[Guest MattP]

8 hours ago, Samilktray said:

Fair play to them I say 

When I look at the people who repped this it made me laugh.

 

The same people who say we can’t have a No Deal Brexit because it will cause economic hardship, currently cheering Extinction Rebellion as it traipses through the streets demanding the most severe form of austerity imaginable, a complete end to economic growth and the propulsion of humankind back to the Stone Age.

 

Great work lads

Edited 8 October 2019 by MattP

[Guest MattP]

Some of these people genuinely need help though. Bonkers.

 

 

[MC Prussian]

5 hours ago, TheLittleBigMan said:

I'll have me 2 pence worth. We have just entered the 6th great mass extinction event. That means there is a strong possibility that most species will become extinct. It seems to me humanities biggest problem is not understanding that that means us too. Even if we went to zero emissions tomorrow, we will still suffer the consequences of the damage we have already done. The scientific evidence cannot be denied. A disruption from a mass protest pales in comparison to what the future holds for all of us. Science is currently at a point where they really can't say for sure that our species is going to make it. If that doesn't make you sh*t your pants, if all that does is create debates about pros and cons of a protest, I think you'll find we're pretty much fu*ked. 

There are children taking to the streets, along with the elderly, employed, unemployed - the whole shabang. Not all of them are smelly but all of them are trying to do something about what is without doubt a total game changer to our way of life. 

The biggest problem is that science isn't clear on this either, and therein lies the biggest conundrum for us all. Yet politicians and activists want to make us believe armageddon is imminent, and Extinction Rebellion are nothing but another activist plague to befall us.

As described by a longstanding activist herself, ER take away means and people from true, honest activist causes. They are after your money, your data, your time and seem to dislike cameras, as if they have something to hide. They can be quite violent, too. All the police resources used up in order to keep it all in balance are much more needed in other areas, it makes the police's job much more difficult.

 

If we don't get the base right and don't let scientists speak more often, no wonder activists and politicians have it easy interfering and taking over public opinion with their overblown alarmism. And most of the media are complicit in all of this.

 

There's plenty of YouTube videos and online links to give you a different, more grounded view of what's going on right now and what may happen in the future - as with all of Climate Change, it's all about predictions, many different influences and uncertainties, models and attempts at creating a coherent picture. Nobody holds the ultimate truth, but surely scientists are closest to it all. Listen to them more than anyone else.

 

And check the "Science & Environment" thread more often.

Edited 8 October 2019 by MC Prussian

[MC Prussian]

6 hours ago, ozleicester said:

FFS

 

Never so many stupid comments on one topic.

The climate is changing, if something isnt done it will be the sea camped outside your door.

 

These people are doing something, they are trying to help. but the monkeys in their offices are just following the media/government spin. Pissed off that their $ might be affected.

Yeah, obviously. The rest of your statement is pretty much all subjective.

 

And now - ER are helping no one but themselves. They want your money, and they want you as part of their herd. Leave your brain and wallet at the front gate.

It's another version of Antifa, just more on the socio-ecological side. Mostly middle-aged, white men.

 

And they are eating themselves:

Quote

... why is the movement so white? Why is that a problem? And what can be done to change it?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/04/extinction-rebellion-race-climate-crisis-inequality

Extinction Rebellion has a diversity problem - you couldn't make it up.

 

[Finnegan]

7 hours ago, MPH said:

sometimes it’s not the message you carry but how you carry it. 

 

OK so this is basically in a few words what I tried to say in as many paragraphs. 

[MC Prussian]

40 minutes ago, MattP said:

Some of these people genuinely need help though. Bonkers.

 

“Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.”

Bertrand Russell

[Vacamion]

7 hours ago, ozleicester said:

 

These people are doing something, they are trying to help. but the monkeys in their offices are just following the media/government spin. Pissed off that their $ might be affected.

 

Bit disparaging. 

 

Just off to earn my bananas. 

 

[SpacedX]

10 hours ago, Strokes said:

It’ll be interesting to hear people’s thoughts on whether there are things that they value more than the economy. I mean this must be costing the country billions?  

 

A mere drop in an inexorably rising ocean level. 

 

10 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

but can't help but think they're actually a nuisance 

You'll find that is the general idea

 

10 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

making millions of people's lives loads harder for weeks on end, costing outrageous amounts 

The unintentional irony at this point is excruciating. 

 

6 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Where, exactly? Stopping ordinary citizens going about their lives isn't helping, it's being a twat. 

So that the next generation can't?

 

35 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

There's plenty of YouTube videos and online links to give you a different, more grounded view of what's going on right now

...Ladies and gentlemen, the scientific method.

 

If in doubt about the inherent stochastic nature or parameter variations of GCMs ...why not ask a popular video entertainment platform.

[MC Prussian]

51 minutes ago, Line-X said:

...Ladies and gentlemen, the scientific method.

 

If in doubt about the inherent stochastic nature or parameter variations of GCMs ...why not ask a popular video entertainment platform.

If faced with the choice between an angry, incited mob, one half repeatedly shouting "Extinction" and the other "Rebellion" like mindless drones, and in-depth interviews with some of the most renowned scientists in the field of climate science, I know which one I'd go for.

 

But let's brush over that with some belittlement. Will surely work wonders in the long run.

Edited 8 October 2019 by MC Prussian

[SpacedX]

6 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

If faced with the choice between an angry, incited mob, one half repeatedly shouting "Extinciton" and the other "Rebellion" like mindless drones, and in-depth interviews with some of the most renowned scientists in the field of climate science, I know which one I'd go for.

 

But let's brush over that with some belittlement. Will surely work wonders in the long run.

I expressed no preference and have no intent to belittle. 

 

Online quote mining, cherry picked confirmation bias and lay opinions parroted from the largely vacuous echo-chamber of social media or a video sharing website no more constitutes legitimate science than the throngs that you decry. 

 

Climate science is hard. You don't understand it from an evening on You Tube. 

[ScouseFox]

8 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The climate is changing, if something isnt done it will be the sea camped outside your door.

at least it’ll smell nicer than when these muppets were camped outside my front door  

Edited 8 October 2019 by ScouseFox

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

When I look at the people who repped this it made me laugh.

 

The same people who say we can’t have a No Deal Brexit because it will cause economic hardship, currently cheering Extinction Rebellion as it traipses through the streets demanding the most severe form of austerity imaginable, a complete end to economic growth and the propulsion of humankind back to the Stone Age.

 

Great work lads

ffs, @MattP, I was playing the long game with this. Drawing on all the parallels. 

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

When I look at the people who repped this it made me laugh.

 

The same people who say we can’t have a No Deal Brexit because it will cause economic hardship, currently cheering Extinction Rebellion as it traipses through the streets demanding the most severe form of austerity imaginable, a complete end to economic growth and the propulsion of humankind back to the Stone Age.

 

Great work lads

 

What's made me smile about this is that I knew with 10000% certainty that you'd rep'd the dumb McDonald's tweet on the last page. 

 

We're all a bit predictable tbf

[MC Prussian]

38 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I expressed no preference and have no intent to belittle. 

 

Online quote mining, cherry picked confirmation bias and lay opinions parroted from the largely vacuous echo-chamber of social media or a video sharing website no more constitutes legitimate science than the throngs that you decry. 

 

Climate science is hard. You don't understand it from an evening on You Tube. 

Yes, climate science is hard. It encompasses the observation and study of a unbelievably vast array of natural influences. Which is why even climate scientists, which stem from all directions of scientific fields (geographers, geologists, biologists, physicists, chemists, meteorologists, ecologists, economists, aso aso) disagree on climate science - which is good.

I'd call for more scientists or scientific panels (outside of the rather dubious IPCC) to educate people instead of activists glueing or chaining themselves to streets, bollards or cars, grown-up people hyped up to behave like little children.

 

And no, I'm not talking about just "an evening" on YouTube. To catch just a glimpse of what is taking place in the scientific world, one needs numerous evenings on YouTube.

It makes for a fascinating watch, and I'd recommend more people do that - certainly more intellectually challenging than just popping in the odd TV series here and there - or following a movement such as ER as a parroting lemming.

Edited 8 October 2019 by MC Prussian

[Guest MattP]

12 minutes ago, Strokes said:

ffs, @MattP, I was playing the long game with this. Drawing on all the parallels. 

One of those who repped it was bragging in the holiday thread a few weeks ago that's he flying off to Australia, Thailand and the USA next year. It's a good job there is no carbon footprint travelling on a high horse.