Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) Best Labour leader of recent times? Edited 11 February 2020 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) The Ashcroft report into Labour in full - it shows what a lot of people have said, Corbyn was a massive problem but the problems go far deeper. Key parts they really should be listening too..... https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/diagnosis-of-defeat-labours-turn-to-smell-the-coffee/ Edited 11 February 2020 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) Edited 11 February 2020 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 I give Jeremy Corbyn's leadership 10 out of 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) This bit is my fav, bin the idiot voters Edited 11 February 2020 by Kopfkino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 @Kopfkino If you want to hear batshit crazy analysis and paranoia from inside the party have a listen to the Novara Media podcast with Paul Mason from just after the election. He uses the term "far right, hard right or right wing" about 150 times in an hour. The definition of some of it had me laughing out loud at times. Some of the stranger thoughts...... The right and the "far right" now dominate the British parliament. Brexit is racist, working mens clubs now share memes that are racist and fanticise about civil war. (I go in NFP or NP WMC almost every week and I've never seen a meme shared or a civil war fantasy spoken) Corbyn didn't empower the membership enough. On the doorstep Tory voters demanded racism against Eastern Europeans. John Mann and Ian Austin are relics from the Cold War in the Labour party, put there by "who knows". He thinks they lost Leigh partly because they couldn't set a stall up in the street as they kept being attacked by the "far right" over Brexit - which I presume was just normal people being angry about why they were trying to overturn it. We will not throw any ethnic minorities under a bus, we didnt with BAME, we didn't with the Jews - he even said that mentioning Jews. Lisa Nandy borders on nativist. Form an electoral coalition with the Greens, Plaid and the SNP - Neo-Liberals at the bottom of the list but welcome but not at the minute as they support Boris and Gove and their attacks on migrants. To be fair he did said Corbyn was ridiculous in reaction to Skripal and he even expressed some sorrow that he didnt say it at the time. Craziest prediction - Johmson might call another election asking for a majority of 150 after negotiations. The most amazing thing about it is he shouts it with such confidence, genuinely believes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 Imagine Nandy will be pretty gutted not to have picked up more northern CLPs (particularly outside of the biggest cities) given the main theme of her campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 34 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: Imagine Nandy will be pretty gutted not to have picked up more northern CLPs (particularly outside of the biggest cities) given the main theme of her campaign. I'm surprised she's not been able to cut through but maybe it's just not worth the risk of RBL so branches wanting the nutters out need to go with Starmer. The deputy leader is the most baffling one for me, Rosina Allan-Khan and Ian Murray are comfortably the best two candidates imo and are behind morons like Butler and Burgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, MattP said: I'm surprised she's not been able to cut through but maybe it's just not worth the risk of RBL so branches wanting the nutters out need to go with Starmer. The deputy leader is the most baffling one for me, Rosina Allan-Khan and Ian Murray are comfortably the best two candidates imo and are behind morons like Butler and Burgon. Probably something in that. She's the only candidate really fighting on two fronts - with Starmer to be the normal, competent one and with Long-Bailey to be both the non-London and female choice. With Allin-Khan and Murray it's possibly because the former is a Londoner, therefore Starmer voters don't want them on a joint ticket for fear of the party being seen as too London-centric, while Murray is a bloke and also outspokenly pro-Remain, so wouldn't be wanted on a joint ticket for those reasons. I prefer them both to Rayner (though those concerns I've mentioned are slightly putting me off picking one or the other as my first preference), but why anyone would back Burgon or Butler over Rayner if they couldn't bring themselves to back the other two is beyond me. Edited 11 February 2020 by Voll Blau 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Loyal Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 3 hours ago, Kopfkino said: This bit is my fav, bin the idiot voters It's absolutely mental isn't it. How is it possible to be that out of touch?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 Well played guys Two more months of this to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 23 minutes ago, MattP said: Well played guys Two more months of this to go. Makes the Tory leadership contest look like a snap poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, MattP said: @Kopfkino If you want to hear batshit crazy analysis and paranoia from inside the party have a listen to the Novara Media podcast with Paul Mason from just after the election. He uses the term "far right, hard right or right wing" about 150 times in an hour. The definition of some of it had me laughing out loud at times. Some of the stranger thoughts...... The right and the "far right" now dominate the British parliament. Brexit is racist, working mens clubs now share memes that are racist and fanticise about civil war. (I go in NFP or NP WMC almost every week and I've never seen a meme shared or a civil war fantasy spoken) Corbyn didn't empower the membership enough. On the doorstep Tory voters demanded racism against Eastern Europeans. John Mann and Ian Austin are relics from the Cold War in the Labour party, put there by "who knows". He thinks they lost Leigh partly because they couldn't set a stall up in the street as they kept being attacked by the "far right" over Brexit - which I presume was just normal people being angry about why they were trying to overturn it. We will not throw any ethnic minorities under a bus, we didnt with BAME, we didn't with the Jews - he even said that mentioning Jews. Lisa Nandy borders on nativist. Form an electoral coalition with the Greens, Plaid and the SNP - Neo-Liberals at the bottom of the list but welcome but not at the minute as they support Boris and Gove and their attacks on migrants. To be fair he did said Corbyn was ridiculous in reaction to Skripal and he even expressed some sorrow that he didnt say it at the time. Craziest prediction - Johmson might call another election asking for a majority of 150 after negotiations. The most amazing thing about it is he shouts it with such confidence, genuinely believes it. Brexit being racist is the biggest con trick ever pulled. The idea that by voting against staying in a club, that gives priority immigration status to the residents of 27 predominantly white ethnic countries, regardless of skills or qualifications. Over skilled brown/black/yellow folk in the rest of world. No wonder they called us thick, we are for falling for that. Edited 11 February 2020 by Strokes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathrow fox Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 1 hour ago, Strokes said: Brexit being racist is the biggest con trick ever pulled. The idea that by voting against staying in a club, that gives priority immigration status to the residents of 27 predominantly white ethnic countries, regardless of skills or qualifications, over skilled brown/black/yellow folk in the rest of world. No wonder they called us thick, we are for falling for that. To be fair a lot of African born migrants have taken advantage of FOM.Somalians with Dutch passports for example.One of the biggest reasons they want to come to the UK is that we are far more tolerant.Especially in regards to race and colour 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathrow fox Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 7 hours ago, MattP said: @Kopfkino If you want to hear batshit crazy analysis and paranoia from inside the party have a listen to the Novara Media podcast with Paul Mason from just after the election. He uses the term "far right, hard right or right wing" about 150 times in an hour. The definition of some of it had me laughing out loud at times. Some of the stranger thoughts...... The right and the "far right" now dominate the British parliament. Brexit is racist, working mens clubs now share memes that are racist and fanticise about civil war. (I go in NFP or NP WMC almost every week and I've never seen a meme shared or a civil war fantasy spoken) Corbyn didn't empower the membership enough. On the doorstep Tory voters demanded racism against Eastern Europeans. John Mann and Ian Austin are relics from the Cold War in the Labour party, put there by "who knows". He thinks they lost Leigh partly because they couldn't set a stall up in the street as they kept being attacked by the "far right" over Brexit - which I presume was just normal people being angry about why they were trying to overturn it. We will not throw any ethnic minorities under a bus, we didnt with BAME, we didn't with the Jews - he even said that mentioning Jews. Lisa Nandy borders on nativist. Form an electoral coalition with the Greens, Plaid and the SNP - Neo-Liberals at the bottom of the list but welcome but not at the minute as they support Boris and Gove and their attacks on migrants. To be fair he did said Corbyn was ridiculous in reaction to Skripal and he even expressed some sorrow that he didnt say it at the time. Craziest prediction - Johmson might call another election asking for a majority of 150 after negotiations. The most amazing thing about it is he shouts it with such confidence, genuinely believes it. I love Mason.He gets me to work on time.Whenever my wife makes me watch GMTV and he comes on I’m off like a shot.He always starts spouting yet never gets to the end of his point.He wouldn’t get a sniff if he had a Leicester accent.Didn’t he toy with the idea of voting leave?Not everybody on the left likes him either.Warnings about ignoring the ref etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 22 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said: I love Mason.He gets me to work on time.Whenever my wife makes me watch GMTV and he comes on I’m off like a shot.He always starts spouting yet never gets to the end of his point.He wouldn’t get a sniff if he had a Leicester accent.Didn’t he toy with the idea of voting leave?Not everybody on the left likes him either.Warnings about ignoring the ref etc. He was one of those who claimed it, but I didn't find it believable. He has muttered a few words about Lexit but he's convinced himself it's some kind of fascist project, he's gone a bit mad since the election of Corbyn. Unbelievable he used to work for the BBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 (edited) It's a sick world when Ruth Smeeth gets kicked out of the house and some of the people sat here remain in it. I'd love to know who the one was who shouted at her for complaining about antisemitism. Got to be Butler or Burgon. Edited 11 February 2020 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathrow fox Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 23 minutes ago, MattP said: He was one of those who claimed it, but I didn't find it believable. He has muttered a few words about Lexit but he's convinced himself it's some kind of fascist project, he's gone a bit mad since the election of Corbyn. Unbelievable he used to work for the BBC. Out of all the political commentators he seems to have lost his head the most.The only good thing he’s done is play the butler in The Weekly Politics skit Downturn Abbey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 12 February 2020 Share Posted 12 February 2020 10 hours ago, MattP said: It's a sick world when Ruth Smeeth gets kicked out of the house and some of the people sat here remain in it. I'd love to know who the one was who shouted at her for complaining about antisemitism. Got to be Butler or Burgon. I appreciate that this clip is intended to make a political point not provide comprehensive coverage, but it would have been interesting to have heard their replies.... Any chance they're available? I'm sure you're right about Butler/Burgon. Smeeth has said nobody from the Corbyn shadow cabinet should be leader.....so, er, that's not Starmer, Long-Bailey or Thornberry, then.... She has actively backed Ian Murray for Deputy & said he went out of his way to be supportive. The more I hear of him, the more he's getting my vote (with Rayner as back-up). Seems to associate himself more with John Smith than Blair, despite his centrist/Blairite reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 February 2020 Share Posted 12 February 2020 5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I appreciate that this clip is intended to make a political point not provide comprehensive coverage, but it would have been interesting to have heard their replies.... Any chance they're available? I'm sure you're right about Butler/Burgon. Smeeth has said nobody from the Corbyn shadow cabinet should be leader.....so, er, that's not Starmer, Long-Bailey or Thornberry, then.... She has actively backed Ian Murray for Deputy & said he went out of his way to be supportive. The more I hear of him, the more he's getting my vote (with Rayner as back-up). Seems to associate himself more with John Smith than Blair, despite his centrist/Blairite reputation. I tried to find them and couldn't - even the JLM FB feed had taken the event down as well afterwards. Agree on Murray. Nandy/Murray would be my vote if I was a Labour member. Not only young and fresh, but a complete break from the Corbyn era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 February 2020 Share Posted 12 February 2020 Meanwhile, Keir Starmer appears to have turned into Jeremy Corbyn. https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/ Richard Burgon is now setting the agenda for foreign policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
String fellow Posted 12 February 2020 Share Posted 12 February 2020 So Starmer wants a Prevention of Military Intervention Act. Great news for despotic rulers everywhere! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 12 February 2020 Share Posted 12 February 2020 (edited) Lisa Nandy starts the Newsnight thing by saying the public didn't believe that Labour could deliver everything they promised like abolishing tuition fees and nationalising stuff. Lisa Nandy proceeds to raise her hand to say that abolishing tuition fees and nationalising utilities would be in her manifesto. And yet she's the one that's supposed to have her head screwed on. Again I just don't get the hype. Her spiel is basically 'we need to listen to people and learn lessons' followed by something about towns or buses. So little substance to any of it and the substance that comes out is more often than not the opposite of learning lessons. It's just the kind of thing that impresses people that have never spoken to anyone outside their cushty bubble and comes across great when you're alongside three other people trying desperately to brown nose a few hundred thousand people. Anyway, if only all political debates had no audience, its so much better even if the host woman is crap. Ideally we'd get back to Roy Jenkins-Tony Benn style debates. Edited 12 February 2020 by Kopfkino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guesty Posted 12 February 2020 Share Posted 12 February 2020 Watching the Labour hustings on Newsnight. I much prefer these debates without an audience. Less playing to the crowd and petty point scoring. Always find Emily Thornberry so annoying. She wasn't as bad tonight. But I find her condescending; interrupts people, but hates to be interrupted. It's like she goes on with a preprepared statement and has to say it - irrelevant of what's asked. I even find the way she talks annoying 😂. I'd never really heard of her before this leadership contest, but I like Lisa Nandy. She's not tarnished by the previous regime. Is from up north and understands the problems. Whilst it's not important to me - she's a woman. She holds her own in debates - she doesn't dance around topics, just gets to the point. She seems a really good candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoleftfeet Posted 13 February 2020 Share Posted 13 February 2020 What is it with labours obsession with tuition fees? Votes from the young? who haven't spotted it was labours way of kicking the cost down the road for 30 years . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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