The Dark Arts

[SixtiesFox]

Wolves showed how important this aspect of the game is. They constantly impeded our players in the midfield area restricting our creative players' ability to develop attacking situations. At worst they conceded free kicks in non-threatening areas and for the most part they avoided bookings. Ironically, we fouled less but received more cautions and a sending off that could have cost us the game. Liverpool and Man City are masters at disrupting moves at source and a Villa defender even admitted that this was a key strategy they employed in the League Cup semi-finals, as they knew that if they allowed us to 'play' they would almost certainly have lost the tie. Why haven't we learned to counter and replicate this tactic? Is it down to Rodger's philosophy (is he a purist?) or is it a personnel issue? And if it's the latter, who should we be targeting to address this in the summer transfer window? If we want to mix it with the big boys, surely we must add this dimension to our game. 

[KingsX]

Recent Opta data measuring tactical fouling named the two PL sides who disrupt counters the least with fouling.  Us and -- Liverpool.

 

Inasmuch as Pool do it, they aren't even getting whistled, much less booked.

[jeffschlupp]

I don't think this is an issue for us.

 

The obvious thing is to say that we have two of the most prolific tacklers in the league in Ricardo and Ndidi - we don't need to foul if we win the ball back cleanly.

 

You then look at the counter attacks that we defend well, you often see Tielemans doing some great work going backwards, or even Maddison as we saw on a couple of occasions on Friday (Maddison is joint 31st in the division for tackles, I might add).

 

I don't think we're a side that gets countered too often either - we might have lots of possession but I think the counter-press from the front 4-5 players is intense enough that we allow the defence to drop back in and kill off any countering potential most of the time.

[drofmor55]

It has happened quite a few times to us this season..the home match v Southampton and the League cup semi final matches v Villa being prime examples...its a tactic that quite a few teams use now. foul to break up an attack(but not serious enough to get a booking)..then stand in front of the ball so a quick free kick cant be taken ..then get the defence back and organised behind the ball.. the answer to this is for referees to book players for persistant fouling but  it never happens.

[Hammo]

Anyone watch the Dortmund v PSG game last night in which Neymar proved once again - as he did at the last World Cup - that he is the Master of the Dark Arts? All he lacked was a dark cloak and villainous chuckle...

[don_danbury]

1 hour ago, SixtiesFox said:

Wolves showed how important this aspect of the game is. They constantly impeded our players in the midfield area restricting our creative players' ability to develop attacking situations. At worst they conceded free kicks in non-threatening areas and for the most part they avoided bookings. Ironically, we fouled less but received more cautions and a sending off that could have cost us the game. Liverpool and Man City are masters at disrupting moves at source and a Villa defender even admitted that this was a key strategy they employed in the League Cup semi-finals, as they knew that if they allowed us to 'play' they would almost certainly have lost the tie. Why haven't we learned to counter and replicate this tactic? Is it down to Rodger's philosophy (is he a purist?) or is it a personnel issue? And if it's the latter, who should we be targeting to address this in the summer transfer window? If we want to mix it with the big boys, surely we must add this dimension to our game. 

i think that was more down to how gash mike dean was during that game.

[Lambert09]

2 hours ago, SixtiesFox said:

Wolves showed how important this aspect of the game is. They constantly impeded our players in the midfield area restricting our creative players' ability to develop attacking situations. At worst they conceded free kicks in non-threatening areas and for the most part they avoided bookings. Ironically, we fouled less but received more cautions and a sending off that could have cost us the game. Liverpool and Man City are masters at disrupting moves at source and a Villa defender even admitted that this was a key strategy they employed in the League Cup semi-finals, as they knew that if they allowed us to 'play' they would almost certainly have lost the tie. Why haven't we learned to counter and replicate this tactic? Is it down to Rodger's philosophy (is he a purist?) or is it a personnel issue? And if it's the latter, who should we be targeting to address this in the summer transfer window? If we want to mix it with the big boys, surely we must add this dimension to our game. 

Because we have proper players. I’m happy with that.

 

prefer the Ndidi approach to the hamza approach. Be careful what you wish for because when you try to coach this type of thing into players red cards will follow. 

 

As disliked as as he was, I remember wellens being excellent at the tactical foul. 

[CUJimmy]

This will only stop if referees are directed to come down on it like a ton a bricks.  For me any deliberate foul, wherever it is on the pitch, should be a yellow.  If a referee claims they cannot judge intent then frankly they shouldn’t be doing the job.

[SixtiesFox]

As has been pointed out, referees don't call it, in part because many players are masters at it. Our players are a pretty honest bunch who try and win tackles fairly and when they don't the foul is usually obvious and they get booked and sometimes sent off. Wolves rarely get a player sent off but check how many times teams they are playing against go down to 10 men. Is it just coincidence? As I said, the dark arts are part of the game and we need to adjust to it if we are going to mix it with the big boys. Waiting for our refs to call it is like pissing in the wind I'm afraid.

[mozartfox]

We need to employ a nasty Argentinian Diving and Fouling Coach. Need to be more clever and cynical. Despite VAR, look at the diving skills of Mane and the martial arts skills of Maguire?

 

If you cannot beat, join them.

[UniFox21]

But when we do slightly bad tackles to break up play, admittedly Hamza has done a few cynical ones, he's then targeted by opposition managers in press conferences. 

[st albans fox]

The dark arts = bobby huth ....

 

at the crudest level - but he couldn’t play now because of VAR.  his wasn’t breaking up play but breaking the will of his opponent when the ball was nowhere to be seen ......

[jayfox26]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

The dark arts = bobby huth ....

 

at the crudest level - but he couldn’t play now because of VAR.  his wasn’t breaking up play but breaking the will of his opponent when the ball was nowhere to be seen ......

Wasilewski was another but with him it wasnt about dark arts, he didnt try to hide the fact he was trying to end opposition players.