BLM support to be displayed on shirts

[Foxin_Mad]

8 minutes ago, Ollie93 said:

It's not that bad at all, but why can't it be better? Why can't there be no racism, no prejudice?

There is NO reason why it cannot be better.

 

I think every day, every year we had made progress.

 

Its questionable whether this particular movement is really the best vehicle to do that. I mean seriously have the actions of BLM made the lives of one black person in the UK better as a result of their actions? I would doubt it when they have awoken the numpties on the far right from their slumber.

[Ollie93]

11 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

There is NO reason why it cannot be better.

 

I think every day, every year we had made progress.

 

Its questionable whether this particular movement is really the best vehicle to do that. I mean seriously have the actions of BLM made the lives of one black person in the UK better as a result of their actions? I would doubt it when they have awoken the numpties on the far right from their slumber.

I'd say that its given a lot of black people the courage and confidence to stand up for what they believe in. So yes, i'd say it has. I am not condoning the violence on either side, that's wrong.

[StanSP]

29 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

There is NO reason why it cannot be better.

 

I think every day, every year we had made progress.

 

Its questionable whether this particular movement is really the best vehicle to do that. I mean seriously have the actions of BLM made the lives of one black person in the UK better as a result of their actions? I would doubt it when they have awoken the numpties on the far right from their slumber.

I think it's highlighted the problems at the very least... 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Foxin_Mad said:

There is NO reason why it cannot be better.

 

I think every day, every year we had made progress.

 

Its questionable whether this particular movement is really the best vehicle to do that. I mean seriously have the actions of BLM made the lives of one black person in the UK better as a result of their actions? I would doubt it when they have awoken the numpties on the far right from their slumber.

BLM has a number of issues, but I think the protests and the coverage have made a lot of people including me question their commitment to equality.  Unconcious bias in particular.

The violent twats on both the BLM and counter protests can **** off obvs.

[Foxin_Mad]

30 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

BLM has a number of issues, but I think the protests and the coverage have made a lot of people including me question their commitment to equality.  Unconcious bias in particular.

The violent twats on both the BLM and counter protests can **** off obvs.

Same for me. I am passionate about anti-racism and equality. Obviously I have different views to many on the left on how that might be achieved.  

 

Its important people have a voice, and I fully support peaceful protests from anyone. I think talking about 200 year old statues and slavery is somewhat detracting from important issues to discuss in 2020. Thats my view.

 

The violent twats on both sides are an absolute unnecessary disgrace.  Patrick is the kind of guy we need more of, it proves we are all just people trying to live a life. What really makes us any better than anyone else, except maybe kindness? 

 

Lammy is a bit of a tit, but yesterday he said probably the most sensible things I have ever head him say. There have been numerous racism inquires over the past few years, with findings given, lets just implement the findings of those before having another inquiry and see where we stand then. 

 

Either way the Premier League returns tomorrow and despite my reservations BLM will be displayed on the shirts. I hope that it makes a difference for at least one black person, hopefully many more. 

[Carl the Llama]

I'm not allowed in gen chat, I guess because I upset a few of the emboldened racists with my use of the term snowflake 

 

So I'll just say this one thing as diplomatically as possible: The argument that slavery was legal and therefore it wasn't immoral for the statue man to partake in it is utter crock.  Slavery is slavery, if we view it as barbaric now then it was no less barbaric back then, being years in the rearview mirror doesn't soften the blow of millions of human lives that suffered under it.

 

I'd been thinking of taking a break from FT for a bit anyway because this past week has been eye opening in a terrible way and it saddens me to see how bold the unsavory elements of our community have become, but if challenging that isn't welcome then this place is just going to fill me with depression every time I log in to see the growing stream of dogwhistles which can't be disagreed with for fear of upsetting some old out of touch user.  @Mark please ban me completely for a month at least, go nuts with it.

[Bazly]

Reads like the Lama needs a safe space to retire to. You don't tackle racism or anything really by withdrawing becuase you are offended. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and everyone should be allowed to have one. If you disagree then educate and explain. The response of a Labour candidate sums up the problem with discourse today when she said of BLM protests, you need to either support us or shut up. Silly bint needs to be told where to go and its somewhere not too sunny. 

 

I think its safe to say almost everyone is against racisim, the only discussion is on how extreme that goes. The USA had years of affirmative action and we are starting to see that here with the likes of the BBC excluding whites from jobs. I lived and worked int he USA for a while, the resentment that instilled in a large section of the white working class population was tangible. Not everyone likes things rammed down their throats, not everyone likes being told exactly what they should think, not everyone likes being told how they should feel. 

 

Discuss, debate, persuade, educate, Don't preach, dictate and seek to impose your views as a collective minimum standard that is acceptable.That alienates and never ends well.

[Foxin_Mad]

19 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'm not allowed in gen chat, I guess because I upset a few of the emboldened racists with my use of the term snowflake 

 

So I'll just say this one thing as diplomatically as possible: The argument that slavery was legal and therefore it wasn't immoral for the statue man to partake in it is utter crock.  Slavery is slavery, if we view it as barbaric now then it was no less barbaric back then, being years in the rearview mirror doesn't soften the blow of millions of human lives that suffered under it.

 

I'd been thinking of taking a break from FT for a bit anyway because this past week has been eye opening in a terrible way and it saddens me to see how bold the unsavory elements of our community have become, but if challenging that isn't welcome then this place is just going to fill me with depression every time I log in to see the growing stream of dogwhistles which can't be disagreed with for fear of upsetting some old out of touch user.  @Mark please ban me completely for a month at least, go nuts with it.

I presume then you will be happy to renounce the horrific idea of Marxism, an idealology responsible for many millions of deaths and suffering globally in Marxist Regimes, still ongoing today. Labour camps still used to this day in North Korea.

 

I assume you will be also happy to give up and stop using all technology devices, most likely manufactured using modern day slavery in the far east, likewise with imported clothing. There is terrible stuff going on today is it not better to challenge that first instead of focusing on statues from 200 years previous? Of course boycotting the 2022 world  cup is a given too.

 

Sometimes you gotta let things that happend in different times go, the Roman's were pretty abhorrent by today's standards, the Vikings were, the Ottomans were and so on do we remove all traces of these civilisations to with the behaviour being unacceptable by today's standards? Every single country that had colonies has a dubious past. Or is it just the British ones we must remove? Quite frankly the Roman empire was disgusting, shall we eliminate Bath?

 

I all honestly I haven't seen anyone here I would call unsavory or racist (if they are they are rightly dealt with), people are raising valid questions about a movement. It's ok for people to disagree and have different views, its healthy in fact instead of having a echo chamber. I dont one member has condoned racism.

 

I can't honestly see how a left winger on this forum can feel out numbered and dog whistled.

 

Your input like everyones is valuable. Perhaps try to be a little less holier than thou with some posts! None of us are perfect. We all want the best and have maybe different ideas on how to get there. Just because we have different views doesnt make anyone of us more moral than others.  If you want to change someone's views and try to educate them its generally best not to label them in the first instance as that instant gets their back up.

Edited 17 June 2020 by Foxin_Mad

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, Bazly said:

Reads like the Lama needs a safe space to retire to. You don't tackle racism or anything really by withdrawing becuase you are offended. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and everyone should be allowed to have one. If you disagree then educate and explain. The response of a Labour candidate sums up the problem with discourse today when she said of BLM protests, you need to either support us or shut up. Silly bint needs to be told where to go and its somewhere not too sunny. 

 

I think its safe to say almost everyone is against racisim, the only discussion is on how extreme that goes. The USA had years of affirmative action and we are starting to see that here with the likes of the BBC excluding whites from jobs. I lived and worked int he USA for a while, the resentment that instilled in a large section of the white working class population was tangible. Not everyone likes things rammed down their throats, not everyone likes being told exactly what they should think, not everyone likes being told how they should feel. 

 

Discuss, debate, persuade, educate, Don't preach, dictate and seek to impose your views as a collective minimum standard that is acceptable.That alienates and never ends well.

Fair enough and of course people often don't like being lectured.

 

However, talking about the US specifically, I'm not sure how successful those ideas have been in dealing with the institutionalised mistreatment of people of colour by the fuzz seeing as it seems to be still pretty widespread.

 

Perhaps those same working-class white people should save their ire and resentment for the politicians that they seem to keep voting for time and again who could actually effect changes to their lives but who aren't actually helping them all that much, rather than black folks nearby who quite often are in the same or worse socio-economic situations.

Edited 17 June 2020 by leicsmac

[Bazly]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps those same working-class white people should save their ire and resentment for the politicians that they seem to keep voting for time and again who could actually effect changes to their lives but who aren't actually helping them all that much, rather than black folks nearby who quite often are in the same or worse socio-economic situations.

Undoubtedly piss poor politicians is an issue. The middle class intelligentsia latte socialist crowd that is Labour don't have a clue of anything outside of their own very comfortable existance. The dislocated privilage that is your typical Tory member is so far removed from reality they are truly ignorant.That happened the day we started electing politics graduates, solicitors, council office workers and lawyers replacing your union rep, teacher or business owner of the past. Politics got way too gentrified by those who look down on the people and who seem particularly keen to maximise their expenses claims, far from the people there to represent the people. Social movements and independent MPs, once there were a great many non-aligned MPs are the only hope to get away from nepotism and cronyism that is the big party machine.

 

BLM could have been a social movement for good that just got itself hijacked and politicised by anarchists, the Labour party, by MSM fawning and coppers grovelling around on the ground or hiding themselves well away. Hopefully it can recover but it probably needs to change as much as people attitudes if that is ever to happen. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Bazly said:

Undoubtedly piss poor politicians is an issue. The middle class intelligentsia latte socialist crowd that is Labour don't have a clue of anything outside of their own very comfortable existance. The dislocated privilage that is your typical Tory member is so far removed from reality they are truly ignorant.That happened the day we started electing politics graduates, solicitors, council office workers and lawyers replacing your union rep, teacher or business owner of the past. Politics got way too gentrified by those who look down on the people and who seem particularly keen to maximise their expenses claims, far from the people there to represent the people. Social movements and independent MPs, once there were a great many non-aligned MPs are the only hope to get away from nepotism and cronyism that is the big party machine.

 

BLM could have been a social movement for good that just got itself hijacked and politicised by anarchists, the Labour party, by MSM fawning and coppers grovelling around on the ground or hiding themselves well away. Hopefully it can recover but it probably needs to change as much as people attitudes if that is ever to happen. 

I'll be honest, when I wrote that post I was thinking much more about working class white people in the US as opposed to the UK (where the dividing line based on race is evidently rather more stark and that's where the more pronounced problems are), but you do make some salient points here.

[RonnieTodger]

My head is fried reading some of the shit in here. I don't understand how this can be negative in any way.

 

Someone is genuinely so against Black Lives Matter being on Leicester's shirt that they'd boycott our football matches? **** off.

 

You can think it's an empty platitude, you can even think that it's unnecessary, but to boycott because you disagree that much is outrageous. 

 

 

[StanSP]

Just sense the rage at one of these pictures. Soak it in. 

 

[swanlee]

5 hours ago, Bazly said:

Undoubtedly piss poor politicians is an issue. The middle class intelligentsia latte socialist crowd that is Labour don't have a clue of anything outside of their own very comfortable existance. The dislocated privilage that is your typical Tory member is so far removed from reality they are truly ignorant.That happened the day we started electing politics graduates, solicitors, council office workers and lawyers replacing your union rep, teacher or business owner of the past. Politics got way too gentrified by those who look down on the people and who seem particularly keen to maximise their expenses claims, far from the people there to represent the people. Social movements and independent MPs, once there were a great many non-aligned MPs are the only hope to get away from nepotism and cronyism that is the big party machine.

 

BLM could have been a social movement for good that just got itself hijacked and politicised by anarchists, the Labour party, by MSM fawning and coppers grovelling around on the ground or hiding themselves well away. Hopefully it can recover but it probably needs to change as much as people attitudes if that is ever to happen. 

Sorry .... and I'm hoping you don't take this the wrong way. But a truly pessimistic post. 

 

Our politics and our society are far from perfect granted, but it genuinely upsets me that you feel this way.

 

The vast percentage of people I engage with on a day-to-day basis are open-minded & intelligent individuals that have embraced this country's values & ideals.

 

The attitude and endeavour I see of my contemporaries, both older & younger,  fill me with hope for the future.

 

It will be hard-work, and we'll bang heads in disagreement along the way, but I'm genuinely optimistic that this country moving forward can thrive & prosper and be a welcoming, inclusive and rewarding place for all to work, play & live.

 

Its difficult to get a measure of a person through an internet chat forum. But I'm hoping this is a temporary malaise and you do see some aspects of society that offer hope & happiness.

[Wortho]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

Just sense the rage at one of these pictures. Soak it in. 

 

The Nazis used to make the Jews take the knee....and told people not to use Jewish shops. Sounds familiar.

Soak in that.

[StanSP]

Wait, are you comparing BLM movement to Nazis  ?