Club Finances

[Les-TA-Jon]

4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

It's like we clear one PSR hurdle and think that's it we've cracked it for the foreseeable. The summer 2024 window was extremely reckless as it gives absolutely no headroom in the following periods.

 

It's almost like they haven't thought "What if we get relegated?" at any point. We signed a few players with no resale value and the players we could turn a healthy profit on we can't (BEK and probably Fatawu).

 

So for 24/25 - 26/27 (assuming we stay up) we're allowed £61m in losses for this 3 year rolling window. Discounting add backs for the minute, we've already breached a three rolling year window in year one. We're nor going to be turning a profit anytime soon either so more breaches to come.

 

The summer 2024 window was flagrant stupidity - the net spend should never have been that high and if it was it should have been spent on a greater number of players with lower fees. The Skipp and Ayew deals were absolutely ludicrous as it was obvious we'd never even recoup 25% of those total fees.

 

Not to mention the lazy managerial recruitment increased the odds of going down and the likelihood of a managerial pay out too. Then, the successor is lumbered with expensive players we they don't want - I remember specifically posting on here about that, surprise, surprise it panned out that way.

It's almost like there's no coherent high level strategy at the club or something...

[Stadt]

4 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

It's almost like there's no coherent high level strategy at the club or something...

The owner and DoF are idiots that can't abide by any statutory requirements, the Chief Executive was the financial controller about two and a half years ago. There is a hell of a lot resting on McCarronas almost everybody above him has abdicated their responsibilities for years, or they don't have any experience.

[Fox92]

12 hours ago, splinterdream said:

 

yes, 21/22 summer window was a disaster. Only Lookman looked good enough, what really screwed us though is we paid them so much, we couldn't move them on.

 

Daka, Soumare, Bertrand, Vestegaard.

This was the one. Look at at the state of those signings, all shit.

[Stadt]

Just now, Fox92 said:

This was the one. Look at at the state of those signings, all shit.

The fact we moved none of them on early enough (or at all) is the bigger problem. Bad signings happen, that's football but you have to respond and course correct.

 

By the end of 21/22 it was apparent they weren't up to it, Daka aside, at that time. Yet they're all here bar Soumare who left for a seemingly nominal fee. Probably something like £55m in fees and probably another £45mm - £60m in wages.

 

So probably all told Soumare, Vestergaard, Bertrand and Daka will cost us ~ £100m, yet some people blame the EFL/PL/PSR for this mess .

[Claudio Fannieri]

As I keep saying PSR compliance is not a barometer for the financial health of the club, whilst we may end up being compliant and not breaching and not getting a points deduction. We have lost over £70m in a season when our revenues were significantly increased and yet we managed to blow a kings ransom on players like Caleb Okoli, Jordan Ayew, Oliver Skipp and Bobby Reid which has left us with minimal saleable assets to help us out the mire. 
 

This loss is deeply concerning as we appear to have learnt nothing from the past we have recruited very very poorly and the underlying problems will only get worse given our current position and lack of saleable assets that will yield the value required to stabilise our finances. 
 

I am really really concerned as these level of losses are unsustainable, there is not a bottomless pit of money to resolve our woes and without a massive shift in strategy I really cannot see how we fix this. 

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

This was the one. Look at at the state of those signings, all shit.

 We’d sniffed around vestergaard but pushed the button after Fofana’s injury.  No doubt his agent got an even better deal on the back of that. 

 

we renewed his deal because Enzo wanted him - and then Enzo bailed out! 
 

The problem with bringing players from abroad is you never know how they’ll settle here and when you pay them four times more than they were previously earning you have no idea how they’ll mentally handle that either. There is more to a good player than just technical ability and fitness. 

 

Ironic that the only quality player brought in that summer was allowed to leave the following spring ……..

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Stadt said:

The fact we moved none of them on early enough (or at all) is the bigger problem. Bad signings happen, that's football but you have to respond and course correct.

 

By the end of 21/22 it was apparent they weren't up to it, Daka aside, at that time. Yet they're all here bar Soumare who left for a seemingly nominal fee. Probably something like £55m in fees and probably another £45mm - £60m in wages.

 

So probably all told Soumare, Vestergaard, Bertrand and Daka will cost us ~ £100m, yet some people blame the EFL/PL/PSR for this mess .

High wages for players clearly not up to it. Who is going to take on those salaries?  crystallising the loss was also unpalatable from a psr angle. The rules actually force clubs to take a bigger hit over five years than moving someone on after one. 

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

As I keep saying PSR compliance is not a barometer for the financial health of the club, whilst we may end up being compliant and not breaching and not getting a points deduction. We have lost over £70m in a season when our revenues were significantly increased and yet we managed to blow a kings ransom on players like Caleb Okoli, Jordan Ayew, Oliver Skipp and Bobby Reid which has left us with minimal saleable assets to help us out the mire. 
 

This loss is deeply concerning as we appear to have learnt nothing from the past we have recruited very very poorly and the underlying problems will only get worse given our current position and lack of saleable assets that will yield the value required to stabilise our finances. 
 

I am really really concerned as these level of losses are unsustainable, there is not a bottomless pit of money to resolve our woes and without a massive shift in strategy I really cannot see how we fix this. 

King Power don't look as if they're in a position to lend any money nor would the new astute CEO allow it - given the previous loans have been converted into equity. Top I doubt is personally wealthy or liquid enough to inject tens of millions.

 

He just has to sell before we go into administration - our cost base is too high, revenues too low and ou committed spend is still inordinate. Hopefully the not-stupid acolytes in his circle are having a word.

[Stadt]

31 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

High wages for players clearly not up to it. Who is going to take on those salaries?  crystallising the loss was also unpalatable from a psr angle. The rules actually force clubs to take a bigger hit over five years than moving someone on after one. 

Well, firstly don't pay stupid wages. We're supposed to believe Soumare and Daka, probably not even on £25k would only move for 3-4x their salaries?

 

Sell the players and pay a proportion of their wages for a year or two - structure a deal so the PSR amortisation threshold is met but we pay 30% for a year or two - still works out better for us. Pay Bertrand up, don't renew Vestergaard. We breached by miles anyway so it's not like we felt we were hemmed in by PSR, had we framed the nettle it would have been short term pain for long term gain. Instead we're in short +long term pain for no gain at all.

Edited 30 March by Stadt

[Fox92]

12 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

He said it after the Forest game in the FA Cup. He needed a refresh he claimed

 

Overlooking the fact the players he had either finished 5th and won the FA Cup 9 months before, or had been signed under his watch the summer of the FA Cup win

 

 

Our fans were so brainwashed by his bull. Seems most have woken up though for the KP debacle 

 

 

Tbf teams do need refreshing regardless of success, I think we did keep the same team for too long and it reached it's limits. The issue is we bought rubbish players to replace them (Daka, Vestergaard, Soumare all came in that summer for a total of nearly £60m!). 

 

From the 11 that started at Forest that game I think only Rodgers had signed 1 (Justin) as, technically, Tielemans was here before but on loan. That game was a disgrace, Rodgers was probably right to call it out but what he got wrong was then persisting with them the following season. That summer we only bought in Faes (another waste of money) and Smithies despite the fact we lost Schmeichel which was massive. Persisting with Ward was relegation there and then.

 

Those two summers were awful. Mind you, even way back after we won the league our transfer activity was awful. 

[DAS Boot]

6 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Tbf teams do need refreshing regardless of success, I think we did keep the same team for too long and it reached it's limits. The issue is we bought rubbish players to replace them (Daka, Vestergaard, Soumare all came in that summer for a total of nearly £60m!). 

 

From the 11 that started at Forest that game I think only Rodgers had signed 1 (Justin) as, technically, Tielemans was here before but on loan. That game was a disgrace, Rodgers was probably right to call it out but what he got wrong was then persisting with them the following season. That summer we only bought in Faes (another waste of money) and Smithies despite the fact we lost Schmeichel which was massive. Persisting with Ward was relegation there and then.

 

Those two summers were awful. Mind you, even way back after we won the league our transfer activity was awful. 

Absolutely this.  Slimani, Musa, can't even remember the handsome defenders name.  

[Stadt]

 

£153m wage bill - I hadn't put that into context until now.

 

Inter's estimated wage bill is £117m btw. Coventry's is £17m. So last year, unless I'm missing something really obvious - we spent Inter + 2x Coventry's on wages. It's staggering.

 

I've always chalked up our disaster to incompetence but is it more nefarious than that?

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

14 minutes ago, Stadt said:

 

£153m wage bill - I hadn't put that into context until now.

 

Inter's estimated wage bill is £117m btw. Coventry's is £17m. So last year, unless I'm missing something really obvious - we spent Inter + 2x Coventry's on wages. It's staggering.

 

I've always chalked up our disaster to incompetence but is it more nefarious than that?

 

What's the difference between "pre-tax loss" £71m and "profit and loss account / total loss" £375m? 

 

This also suggests we still have stupidly large promotion bonuses/rises in contracts? 43% rise in wages upon promotion + the new signings? 

Edited 30 March by Les-TA-Jon

[Stadt]

Just now, Les-TA-Jon said:

What's the difference between "pre-tax loss" £71m and "profit and loss account / total loss" £375m? 

£375m figure is from multiple years I believe - not just the one season but I'm not that financially literate!

[Stadt]

6 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

 

 

This also suggests we still have stupidly large promotion bonuses/rises in contracts? 43% rise in wages upon promotion + the new signings? 

Cooper pay off, promotion bonuses, wage rises and possibly RVN's as well

[filbertway]

I wonder where our wage bill for last season sits compared to others and just how badly we underperformed relative to what we spent on wages.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

It's almost like there's no coherent high level strategy at the club or something...

[Nolucklcfc]

The fact we’ve had a problem with wages since 2022 and still haven’t been able to properly fix it, is a complete joke. 65,000 average in the ****ing championship. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Tbf teams do need refreshing regardless of success, I think we did keep the same team for too long and it reached it's limits. The issue is we bought rubbish players to replace them (Daka, Vestergaard, Soumare all came in that summer for a total of nearly £60m!). 

 

From the 11 that started at Forest that game I think only Rodgers had signed 1 (Justin) as, technically, Tielemans was here before but on loan. That game was a disgrace, Rodgers was probably right to call it out but what he got wrong was then persisting with them the following season. That summer we only bought in Faes (another waste of money) and Smithies despite the fact we lost Schmeichel which was massive. Persisting with Ward was relegation there and then.

 

Those two summers were awful. Mind you, even way back after we won the league our transfer activity was awful. 

But the players weren’t at their limits in terms of ability. 11 hadn’t suddenly regressed in terms of talent.

 

Sacking him and getting a fresh faced manager in was the correct thing to do. A new voice and direction for the same players 

[5waller5]

58 minutes ago, Stadt said:

 

£153m wage bill - I hadn't put that into context until now.

 

Inter's estimated wage bill is £117m btw. Coventry's is £17m. So last year, unless I'm missing something really obvious - we spent Inter + 2x Coventry's on wages. It's staggering.

 

I've always chalked up our disaster to incompetence but is it more nefarious than that?

 

Wow. Just wow

[Terraloon]

3 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

This is from a Mercury article published yesterday:

 

"However, while substantial, the loss is not expected to cause issues around Profit and Sustainability Rules (PSR), with the club having filed a compliant PSR submission for the season. City received a six-point deduction for exceeding the loss limit for the three financial years ending in 2024.

"The 2023 season saw them record a PSR loss of £63.8m but the 2024 season saw them post a PSR profit of £6.1m. It means that, once addbacks are included, City can post a PSR loss of £25.3m for these accounts, ending in 2025, and still meet the £83m loss threshold for the three years combined."

We have no idea if the numbers said to be the PSR outcomes for the first two years are correct but let’s assume they are.

 

What that means that add backs in 22/3 were £25.7m and in 23/24 £25.5 m. 
 

I must be missing something in the accounts to suggest the add back is in 24/5 will increase to £46m. Which I believe would be bigger than most PL clubs .

 

I still haven’t got it clear in my mind if the 22/23 period will be assess over 13 months likewise I still fear potential impact around interest waived following the conversion of owner debt to equity.

 

 

 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

36 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

The fact we’ve had a problem with wages since 2022 and still haven’t been able to properly fix it, is a complete joke. 65,000 average in the ****ing championship. 

That figure is for season ending 2025 - i.e last season, in the PL

[Les-TA-Jon]

Leicester's staff costs including directors, for 24/25 (Premier League season) = £152.9m

 

The below is not the best source (Givemesport) and is for 25/26 and might only be players, not including directors and other staff, but would suggest only 4-5 teams in the PL had a bigger wage bill than us. Which is staggering, since last season was the 3rd season since we started 'trying' to course correct...

 

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Leicester's staff costs including directors, for 24/25 (Premier League season) = £152.9m

 

The below is not the best source (Givemesport) and is for 25/26 and might only be players, not including directors and other staff, but would suggest only 4-5 teams in the PL had a bigger wage bill than us. Which is staggering, since last season was the 3rd season since we started 'trying' to course correct...

 

Yeah that's a load of horse shit. Villa's is more than €309m

[ClaphamFox]

40 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

We have no idea if the numbers said to be the PSR outcomes for the first two years are correct but let’s assume they are.

 

What that means that add backs in 22/3 were £25.7m and in 23/24 £25.5 m. 
 

I must be missing something in the accounts to suggest the add back is in 24/5 will increase to £46m. Which I believe would be bigger than most PL clubs .

 

I still haven’t got it clear in my mind if the 22/23 period will be assess over 13 months likewise I still fear potential impact around interest waived following the conversion of owner debt to equity.

 

 

 

 

Yes, it seems the club is trying to claim £46m in add backs in order to be compliant, which seems implausibly high. Various media reports have repeated the line that we've '"filed a PSR compliant submission" for the period, but it's not clear whether this submission has been accepted as compliant by the PL/EFL or we're just saying we're compliant and acting cocky about it as part of our defence strategy against a future charge...

Edited 30 March by ClaphamFox